NORFOLK
Real estate taxes appear nearly certain to rise again when the city adopts its budget in May. That much seemed clear after a 90-minute City Council budget discussion Tuesday.
Asked to state anonymously what they would prefer to happen to eight revenue sources, six of the eight council members said they prefer to keep the tax at the current rate, $1.11 per $100 of assessed value. Two voted to drop the rate.
No one asked for an increase, but because of rising real estate assessments, taxes would go up for most homeowners if the rate remains the same. Although the city's residential real estate prices are stagnant, assessments are based on data as much as 18 months old, when the housing market was still hot.
Last year, the council approved a 16-cent reduction, which was supposed to keep the tax bill for the average homeowner even. Yet with residential assessments rising at more than 17 percent, the tax for the average homeowner increased slightly.
Real estate assessments are expected to rise about 3 percent this year, with residential property likely to increase even more.
Councilmen W. Randy Wright and Don Williams said they preferred to drop the tax rate, but Williams acknowledged, "It's too early at this point to say what we're going to do. "
Last year, the council dropped the tax rate after the Norfolk Tea Party 2, an anti-tax group, gathered 16,000 signatures demanding cuts. There appears to be little support on the council to reduce the rate this year.
"This is going to be a very difficult budget," Vice Mayor Anthony L. Burfoot said.
City Manager Regina V.K. Williams asked for the council's input before she starts putting her budget together.
Tuesday's discussion was a sober one. The city faces an $18 million deficit in the next budget, and that's without giving pay raises or funding new programs, city officials have said.
In the anonymous computer vote, most council members said they didn't want to increase seven other fees and taxes, including meal taxes, recreation fees and water charges. The exception was the personal property tax on boats, which four council members want to increase.
The top spending priority was nearly unanimous - public safety. Mayor Paul Fraim noted that on a per capita basis, the city spends more on public safety than any other in Hampton Roads. Wright said that number needs to increase.
"If people don't feel safe, then nothing else matters," he said.
Funding public education was a close second, with much discussion about the School Board's plans to replace Crossroads Elementary School. Since it was proposed several years ago, the cost has more than doubled, and funds once pledged by the School Board aren't available.
The city, which previously set aside $4.6 million for the project, will set aside $9.4 million in the upcoming budget and $10 million in the following budget, meaning construction won't start for several years.
"At this point, the city is going to have to pay for it completely," Williams said. "We had anticipated about $10 million from the school system, and that won't be available."
Wright said he was appalled by the poor condition of the school. "They have to cover computers with plastic when it rains," he said.
Yet with other huge costs in the next capital improvements budget, including $30 million for a courthouse project and $27 million for light rail, Williams said the city can't afford to fund Crossroads sooner.
Fraim said the School Board needs to consider closing some schools, given the steady decrease in students. School officials have been exploring whether to close Oakwood Elementary School, which could happen as soon as next fall.
Administrators have also suggested consolidating the city's alternative education programs, a move that could free as many as four campuses for other uses or be returned to the city.
"We haven't closed a school building in the city in at least 20 years," Fraim said. "If we're going to be asking ourselves tough questions, then we need to get everyone involved. They need to make some tough calls."
Staff writer Amy Jeter contributed to this report.
Harry Minium, (757) 446-2371, harry.minium@pilotonline.com
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I have said before
and will continue to say. The vast majority of our City Council and our Mayor do not have the talent, educational background, foresight, creativity, or general know how to govern a city. They are all local good-old boys who can't see past their nose.
Light Rail is a farce!
Why is our council spending $27 MILLION of OUR money on this farce when we have school buildings falling apart, real estate assessments skyrocketing in spite of a down-market and a projected budget shortfall of $18 MILLION?? I've said it before and I will say it again... FIRE Regina Williams and recall Paul Fraim! Residents of Norfolk unite! Vote those tax-and-spend idiots out of office and enact term limits before we are all homeless! It is no wonder that Norfolk's population is stagnant as expressed in another article here on Pilotonline.com No one in their right mind would want to move here because of the real estate taxes and the actions of a council that has only their own best interests at heart. If I thought for a minute that I could get what my home is worth in this market in a reasonable amount of time, I would sell and move faster than the council could give away $9 MILLION in budget surplus (remember 2006?) to their pet projects! The time to act is NOW people! Get them out!
What's the point.
5th post on 4 different stories in almost three hours and none have been posted. Now the stories are being re-cycled off the page. What a joke. I have no idea if I've been good, or how close I am to the 30 rule. Whatever. Good night everyone.
surprised? you shouldn't be
That the groundwork for raising the tax rate is already being placed shouldn't be surprise to anyone who follows Norfolk city management. A quick review will show that when the tax revenues started to increase a few years ago the city went on a big spending spree in downtown, leaving everyone else empty handed. Then this city manager, who can't make the hard decisions and PRIORITIZE expenses, spent just about everything the city took in. Next the reality of these huge property tax increases started to show up then a concerted effort was organized and the city council--seeing the political fallout--did something. This, again, at the city manager's objection. Now she is proclaiming she can't create a budget within the means of the increased revenue. That being a revenue that has far outpaced inflation. What needs to happen is to decide what are the priorities and work from there. Is it light rail or law enforcement; is it downtown subsidies or is it schools? That should be mandated by the council and she should do it! If she can't do it then let's get a business person into town that can. As a footnote our family relocated our modest "yacht" to another town to avoid the outrag
Thanks Lores!
The same question had been bugging me as well. Maybe I'm one step closer to 30 now!
What is a trusted poster? Who is untrustworthy?
What type of system is the VP running where there are trusted and untrusted posters? You have got to be kidding. how about posting a story about the method you use to judge all of us?
I'm canceling my newspaper subscription as a result of your online insanity... I can't stop you all but I can stop sending you my money. I think you all have lost your minds... Oh and you can put me in the untrustworthy list for what its worth.
maybe real estate taxes are WHY school enrollment is dropping
The Pilot can't seem to connect the dots, but it seems clear to me that Norfolk is already seeing the effect of their failure to keep real estate taxes in line with family incomes: less children in the schools. The only suprise about working families leaving Norfolk in droves is that it's happening sooner than anyone dared to think.
Higher taxes
We are the "common" but who gets the "wealth" in this commonwealth? Hey, let me say what Prez Bush says to shift focus off any issue when America smells a rat: Remember 9/11...mission accomplished...rebuild New Orleans...Homeland Security...threat level orange...There, now how can you possibly complain about taxes going up after reading that? You should feel so safe and good about yourself right now that you will gladly turn over that income tax refund check to pay your property taxes.
MN
I salute your efforts. Keep up the fight.
Same old news with no action by the lazy voters.
How those people you keep re electing into office working for you?
Mr. Fabulous
As a life long born and raised in Norfolk resident I have shouted loud enough at my civic league meetings, attended the Mayor's city wide meetings and joined the Citizen's Police Academy so please do not tell me I am not doing enough-I'm doing all I can.
"Trusted" Poster
Well, that leaves me out.
Slow approval of comments
Comments can sometimes wait for several hours for approval, depending on staffing levels. Also, it's true that some comments do go online before others. Since our redesign in mid-December we've employed a system that allows 'trusted' users to post comments without approval. You become a trusted user by following our posting guidelines for 30 posts. Users can lose their trusted status at any time by not following the guidelines. -- Ron Crow, PilotOnline
MN
Too bad for you. I live in VB.
I stand by my previous statement, however. ORF has taken great strides to improve itself. Unfortunately, with progress comes $. If you shout loud enough at your civic meetings perhaps you can get something done.
Shame the other article got "bumped"
I hope the FEDERAL District Court judge that spoke to Norfolk City Council takes a good, long look at this for the rest of us out here that are being hung out to dry by our respective city councils. Maybe legal intervention is the way to clean this up and get a handle on runaway legislative bodies that can't budget properly, if at all.
This out-of-control rise in real estate values has been a topic many of us have brought before VB City Council only to have them effectively turn a deaf ear to the problem, the problem that growth of that magnitude CANNOT be sustained, and a correction will come! That correction is happening now, and the cities that banked on the revenue with a blind eye toward the right thing to do (do you hear us no VB?) are in trouble.
A government can only take from the people for so long before the people rise up and take back their government!!! By the way, the comment by Fraime reeks of nepotism and favoritism - disgusting, just disgusting!
Keep raising taxes
The goal is to keep raising taxes where the the middle to low income home owners will be force out. Than means the homes can be taken for a low price and to make room for the $300,000 to $1,000.000 homes for the big tax money. Voters keep forgetting about those elected official who keeps raising taxes on home owners.
The city want people to be happy living in the city, they want new people to come in live in Norfolk. For what? just to spend money Downtown? Ever wanted to know how much money is wasted by city agencies, I bet we all would be shocked.
Comment by Mr. Fabulous
You said we should all drive the streets of Norfolk to see all the improvements-really?! Why don't you try driving to sections in East Side of Norfolk where the dumpy little neighborhoods never see improvements. Some of us pay high taxes to live in gang infested neighborhoods and not all of us can just pack up and move. Too many people in Norfolk never step out of their box and check out ALL the neighborhoods.
We need to insist on a rate of $.99 in '09...
starting with the third quarter of this year.
Mz. Williams and our esteemed city council need to pay attention to what is happening in Suffolk, where the new city manager was quoted in this paper last week to the effect that "I need to get to work and trim my budget."
Big Mike
Born and raised here, chief. I will say that as soon as the little woman and I retire (18 years to go) we will blow this burg and hit the great southwest. Had enough of know-it-all Republicans to last a lifetime. I'm thinking a nice little artist town in AZ or UT will do nicely.
32 Percent of homes in area overvalued
A home price study based through the third quarter 2007 was released by National City Corporation® and Global Insights® (economic analysis firms). For the Norfolk-Virginia Beach MSA the area was 26 out of 150 the metro areas listed in the valuation. According to the report, 32 percent of homes in this area are overvalued, so I intend to fight my assessment before it even comes out.
HEY PILOT PEOPLE
Why do my comments always take so long to get posted? Repeatedly people who posted well after me are moved to live while my post waits. WTH?
Taxation by Assessment
Taxation by Assessment
The Federal Reserve’s temporary lowering of interest rates to spur the economy after 9/11 significantly affected the real estate market, creating the highest demand and fastest rising prices within the past several decades. Most property values increased significantly; many property values doubled. Along with rising property values came rising real estate taxes, creating a windfall for local governments and an unbudgeted burden for property owners. While local government leaders were rubbing their hands with glee, property owners were wringing their hands in anguish. Seemingly ecstatic over the new or bigger programs and projects they could buy for the property owners, their elected government leaders seemingly turned a deaf ear to individual property owners who were telling them that what they really wanted was for their elected government leaders to give them their money back by lowering the tax rate, the latter seemingly yielding only when confronted with consolidated and organized opposition bordering on and symbolizing revolt.
This is wrong.
This is wrong because property values have nothing to do with the revenue needs of the local gove
Weed out the greed
City Council needs to have a two-part budget; essential items to keep the city running, and a "wish list." Put the "wish list" items on a referendum and let the taxpayers decide what is and is not a reasonable expenditure. Those items which are essential should be paid for by taxes. Incentives to new businesses, pet projects, salaries for questionable political appointments, etc. can be paid for by bonds.
With the inflated local property values, an increase in the tax rate just ISN'T warranted. With this two-part budget, we might very well see the tax rate down at 8% where it should be.
About Drudge
A study showed that the articles on his website are about 70% liberal. This makes sense if you realize that most of his articles are just links to newspaper websites.
Also, I live in Great Neck area and am a Realtor. My city assessment has risen above fair market value.
UHHH!! Mr (not so) fabulous...
you might want to leave the MoveOn.ORG website from time to time and read some newspapers and other media. Maybe even the AP or Reuters, which by the way is where the drop in real estate market article actually came from. It's painfully obvious that you are one of the many transplants to this area and with the 3 or 4 years statement, have no intention of calling HR home. There are many of us that were born and raised here and know that the mean income in this area in not substantial enough to support the artifitial rise in real-estate assessments. I'm about ready to leave the middle-aged group and fall into the elderly group. That being said, my home is basicly paid for. The assessment on my house last year was $356K, it's in a very nice neighborhood with few transients (like yourself) there. I expect the normal rise in the value of my home, in the 20yrs since I built my home it has increased substantially from the $70K it cost to build. I don't think an increase in assessment is in line when the homes on the market have not sold about the assessment in several years. Example: house next to mine sold for $18K less than assessment two years ago.
Mr Fabulous... What you are saying is just not consistant
Listen to what the good Judge is saying. Then look at how the Mayor is trying to coddle him. You have your answer right there. The council is just A moral and it just is so obvious to the plain eye. Citizens; what are you going to do about it? The short attention span of the citizens makes it easy for the council to continue to stick it to the tax payer. Either stick with it or blame yourselves. The tea party thought they had a victory and their lack of follow through is what let the games continue. When will the intelligentsia of Ghent step up and assert some balance?
Big Mike (and other whiners)
Your first mistake was accessing Drudge for information (Drudge? Please. A right-wing shill). Home values locally HAVE NOT decreased by that wide a margin. We are fairly well insulated here in SEVA because of the military.
Second, you can't have it both ways. Your house (mine too) has skyrocketed in value these past four years. Do you really expect the city not to increase assessments? When the market recovers in 3-4 years and I am ready to sell and downsize I will still have a hefty chunk of equity. So I have to pay a little extra tax. Big deal.
Finally, it never ceases to amaze me all the negativity thrust upon the ORF council. Sure, mistakes are made but drive the streets sometime. There has been a renaissance these past few years. At least ORF is trying to be a better place.
Absurd!
After the recent rate cuts I decided to tap into some of my equity to improve my home. I called the bank and was approved for my loan pending appraisal. A "desktop appraisal" came back at less than what I bought the house for 2 years ago. I have plenty of equity in my home (big down payment from sale of last home) and am not in an adjustable 1st, so my position is OK. Anyhow, got the loan, but had to pay a bit more because LTV ratio was hurt by national drop in housing market, and the banks timidity to loan money.
So if the banks know that housing values are over inflated, and are not interested in giving out mortgages as readily, but the city wants more money for something that is becoming less valuable, when will the two meet? Unfortunately for many, far too late to save their homes. Middle class Americans are getting squeezed by the government and the banks; I just hope that we can take it! I don't feel sorry for those that got an interest only mortgage for a house they couldn't afford otherwise, that's just poor planning. But what about the rest of us?
Bye Bye Virginia!
As soon as possible and retiring here is out of the question.
BigMike
Why don't you run?