Attorneys differ on where Chesapeake officer was when shot

" Right to bear arms! Right to Privacy! Protection from search and seizure without due process!

All that is out the window, on an evening raid from the word of a criminal. Who is willing to stand up, after the fact, and say that Ryan should have been subjected to the search at all. Hindsight is better than 20/20. We would all make better decisions, if we could know the unintended consequences of our actions. But wait, Our forefather suffered those same kinds of raids from the British, for decades, before saying enough is enough! Holy Cow! Had the the police gone to his house at a reasonalble hour, called to him, and waited for Ryan to come out and explained they had a warrant to search his home, things would be a lot different.
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Just remember, the jackboots have all the power already, and we have plenty of citizens willing to give up liberty to feel a little bit of security - so long as it's someone else g

Just reading these posts really does show one something. It shows that the majority of people writting in feel that an unfortunate circumstance resulted from a young man who elected to break the law by having marajuana, and a police action which many feel is questionable and excessive, comming together for one heck of a bad outcome. Folks that say Ryan was innocent of breaking the law are wrong, period. He did have a substance that violates the law. On the other hand, backers of the police, and those who are obviously police officers who make comments such as "don't call us when you need help, in much less intelligent terms, are also wrong." Just as an example, I'm far from being a KKK member or a Louis Ferricon (sp) follower, one is just as bad as the other, however when the police are instructed to protect either in public during events they must. I know it strikes a nerve, but that's your job and ev

Right to bear arms! Right to Privacy! Protection from search and seizure without due process!

All that is out the window, on an evening raid from the word of a criminal. Who is willing to stand up, after the fact, and say that Ryan should have been subjected to the search at all. Hindsight is better than 20/20. We would all make better decisions, if we could know the unintended consequences of our actions. But wait, Our forefather suffered those same kinds of raids from the British, for decades, before saying enough is enough! Holy Cow! Had the the police gone to his house at a reasonalble hour, called to him, and waited for Ryan to come out and explained they had a warrant to search his home, things would be a lot different. So move over, shut up, and let our justice system work to clarify the issues and resolve the blame. Fortunately for Ryan justice will prevail. God bless Ryan, I would have done the same thing.

new liberty-its ok to shoot when ur alone. i am home alone with our 2 dogs,just like ryan.my work hours are weird & i sleep at different hours. I'm a female,barely 100lbs and I may have a knee-jerk reaction if awakened by my 'frenzy'of barking dogs from my bed. If i take my gun,fire off a couple rounds 'fearing for my life'because I 'thought it was an intruder'especially after dark. Will I get the same support?When the UPS man delivers a package or those annoying sales people wanting to sell me siding for my home, they BANG on our door because they can't find the doorbell. This is the identical defense minus the marijuana Ryan had, you are giving the shooter. Why then do I feel like I wouldn't have the same support? It's because you hate cops-thats why.

who posted this:"botched a search warrant by going in at night on a guy with no record, and you got one of your officers killed".so many things are so very wrong w/that statement.I have no criminal record either & a perfect driving record,have i ever broken the law?of course!im just SMART enough to never have been caught.i come from(ny)lived alone(female)unarmed but if someone broke in &i shot them,i'd be charged w/murder & have to prove i "ID"d a deadly weapon by the intruder and forced to use self-defense.LEO's didn't get Det.Shiver's killed,Ryan shooting his gun did.his unreported burglary was bcuz he didn't want to list:3 grow lamps,6 plants....unless ur a cop,don't act like u know how/when their assignments are carried out."just bcuz Shivers lost his life doesn't mean ryan should lose his"-look his widow n 3 fatherless kids in the eye n tell them that.the nytimes said brad pitt is really a woman,pass it on..u all believe everything u read n hear anyway...

Wow the cow opens her mouth and spews more feel good rhetoric. I remember your post that promoted killing folks so who really is the imbecile? Get a clue and a life. Stop sticking up for this lowlife. Or do you have one of your own you are still feeding?

You forgot to say what the CHANGES are in your post. I have followed the story and have seen false reports that the warrant was for the garage only. The one I read described the house, address and included all outbuildings. I am willing to listen. I know you will quote the fact that the report from a few days ago said Shivers was in the front yard. That was new news not a change in the story. I looked back and the reports never said Shivers was going through the front door.

I saw your question. My post was a compilation of facts from all the news stories written and the warrants. The crawling through the door is an assumption people are making based on Ryan's statement that he saw someone pushing through his door. I don't know all the facts as info is either changing or being withheld. That said, I've posted several times that the CPD's warrant can be absolutely right, the procedures done as trained and all the CPD did correct. None of this has any bearing on Ryan's frame of mind and status as innocent until proven guilty. I believe the CPD to be understaffed, overworked and probably stretched thinly to do its job. They deserve our thanks and support (I haven't waivered from this position). Asking for external reviews of the CPD following this incident is the right thing to do for the police and the community. Ryan is not automatically guilty just because the police announced they were police. Would the reasonable citizen heard the shouting over the din of two large dogs barking? Hoping Chesapeake doesn't make its case against Ryan doesn't denegrate the police or Shivers.

Fredrick shot a man. weather he knew it was a cop or not is irrelivent!
He has to answer to the actions he took!

Fredrick had drugs on the premesis as the original warrant said. That is still illegal no matter what your belief is!

All the opinions are BS. I find it sick that everyone says this is a coverup.

All parties involved have to answer to their actions!

Guns just don't shoot all by themselves!

Jersey, I think the answer to the riddle lies in the door being splinterd at the bottom. I think the battering ram and crow bar they recoverd from the home (it's public knowledge) made a nice hole in the bottom of the door for someone to crawl through. This poor officer used bad judgment and had power-hungry police policy backing him up. The cops get reviewed, and this kid gets hung.

Of course, this is all speculation for now.

Here's a link to the pdf files for the search warrants for all that missed them or forgot:

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/informant-told-police-frederick-was-growing-pot-garage

Have a great day all...

Us against them??? Maybe. When the police remember that one of their responsibilities is to SERVE AND PROTECT, maybe we'll move from an adversarial relationship to one that's more cooperative. However, as long as police actions that violate citizen's rights, cost the lives of civilians, and even cost the lives of those that wear a badge continue, this mentality is NOT going to change.

Ever been pulled over in Va Beach for a traffic ticket? Then you know. PRIDE, INTEGRITY, COMMITMENT? Yeah ok! Police that I see firsthand and through NUMEROUS accounts from friends suggest one of the largest fishing expeditions on record, and it's on-going.

Some examples: a fishing expedition by VBPD by an officer that pulled a girl over because a CORNER of her inspection sticker was curled - that's what he said to her after his second question to her. Guess what the 2nd question was (after the license/registration request): You guessed it. "How much have you had to drink?" That's fishing...

Ask about the new ticket quota in VB - that info came straight from a VB patrol officer's mouth, but I'd bet it will be denied.

Cover-up??? I said I didn't know that. What I did say is this "If (and this is a big if) there is a cover-up...". Please get your information correct before questioning.

To those that say, "don't call the cops", we don't - we know better. I called the police recently to report someone in the act of committing a crime, and the officer threatened to arrest me for talking with him (the officer). What a jackass! To top it off, he didn't charge the person, but told me I had to go the magistrate's office to swear out a warrant. Guess the coffee and donut shop was calling, and he didn't feel like doing any police work at that point of his shift.

To those that say "neither side's story has changed", I'm not sure what information you're reading, but it is not about this case. The Chesapeake PD's story has changed quite a few times, the latest twist being that Shivers was in the yard when shot. Again, this just smells terribly foul.

I think most of us here would rather help the police understand that kicking down the doors of innocent men in the middle of the night is a good way to get officers killed, for no reason.

It will be confrontational, but it is not adversarial. It's what's known as community policing, where both the public and police officers rely upon one another to stay safe. It's done through education and by speaking plainly when officers do get hurt or killed. If one officer had taken the time to speak to Frederick's neighbors, many of whom had been in Frederick's garage to see his banana trees and japanese maples, this all could have been avoided.

One conversation is all it would have taken. Instead, it took two bullets to keep the police from a place they had neither understanding of, nor a right to be.

I must start by saying that this is very sad that someone lost a life but I lost mega money and a career due to the "Justice System" in virgina beach. The commonwealth even wrote a letter saying that they made a mistake in my outcome before the appeals court heard my case, Did i receive a letter apologizing? Did I receive money for my time incarcerated? Maybe a phone call to say they were sorry NO NOTHING, I have read some of these comments and you who side with the police reguardless of any situation, "THE LADY OF JUSTICE MAY BE ON YOUR DOOR STEP AND HOPEFULLY YOU DONT GET SCREWED LIKE THIS YOUNG MAN IS" If someone is coming through my door at night they will get the same thing better wait til day light and knock on my door. Ryan if you read this all I can tell you is keep you head up through this and rest assure that the man beside you in that court room is the BEST.. (TRUST ME HE SAT BESIDE ME FOR MURDER AS WELL I SIT AT HOME, WITH NO CONVICTION) here are just 2 cases that made major headlines and both went free!!!!
1: Navy seal kills other navy seal in self defense
2: Sailor charged with lynching not enough evidence to convict let alone probably innocent of that frivolus cha

Det Shivers was not "in the yard, really" as the prosecutor claimed. See http://hamptonroads.com/node/450896...Shivers' favorite role and contribution to the SWAT team was as the "breacher," the guy that breaks down the door for the rest of the team to enter buildings. Another news article that I can't find now also said that the police moved Shivers from the porch to the yard to perform chest compressions. The prosecutor is flying loose and fast with previously stated facts. One of the articles following the memorial service quoted another police officer as saying '[Shivers] was doing what he did best when he was shot," clearing the way for others to enter.

"Why don't you just say "I hate the police" or worse. "

To the poster of this doozy and Jersey who agrees w/ them: Classic! You have spelled out why the police have to deal w/ an 'us' against 'them' attitude with the public at times. You have shown everyone on these boards that they are not allowed to have reasonable doubts abou tthe case. You have also shown your disdain for free thought. Apparently, when it comes to an issue involving a police officer, our rights are not valid if our opinions and rendering of the facts happen to differ from yours. You have in fact stated that if we disagree w/ the police that we should not have the right to their protection. The scarier thought is who I need protection from. Why should others be punished for thinking and writing?

To all those people out there, do me a favor and NEVER CALL THE POLICE AGAIN. Redaing your posts makes me sick....a couple of comments...To the poster who stated the CPD did not because the crime already happened...well DUH in progress crimes take a higher priority then some tools that were stolen...sorry about your luck...About this mystery .223 round that was there...did anyone think that maybe when Shivers was shot, it was a knee jerk reaction and his weapon discharged...or maybe there were some .223 rounds in Fredricks house...Another poster stated that this "kid" only had 3 joints does it really seem as if he would shoot a cop...let me ask this...how do you all know who would shoot a cop..all it takes is one time and your criminal record goes from nothing to felonious. I have had several dealings with the CPD, mostly positive..I will assure you that if there were a cover up, there internal affairs dept would bring it out...The warrant was good, stop your BSing

Ummm... you wrote this:

"The police and Fredrick haven't changed their stories."

Read up. Frederick hasn't changed his story, however, and this is standing out like an elephant in the room, the police HAVE changed their story more than once now, at least from what was originally reported by them. Not only have they changed their story from what was originally released, there are new embellishments from the police department.

Wow....Frederick against 14 police officers educated and experienced in the world of drugs. Very impressive.

Ms. Shiver must be throughly disgusted and sick of this aftermath.

Bless her and her children..The CPD is no longer thinking about them. The are thinking only of covering the butts of the 14 ineffective officers on the scene as well of the irresponsible actions of the department itself. Too late.

“Frederick’s supporters are planning a march and rally Saturday outside the Chesapeake jail, where he is incarcerated.”

What a spectacular show and gnashing of teeth we may witness tomorrow night. I cannot wait to see on local coverage this outstanding group of citizens exercising their local law enforcement protected right to assemble.

Will the number of “prior-arrests” immediately outside the jail exceed the combined total inside the jail? Remember, better to have those around you assume you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Come one, come all, gaze upon the greatest show on earth…