Attorneys differ on where Chesapeake officer was when shot

Just reading these posts really does show one something. It shows that the majority of people writting in feel that an unfortunate circumstance resulted from a young man who elected to break the law by having marajuana, and a police action which many feel is questionable and excessive, comming together for one heck of a bad outcome. Folks that say Ryan was innocent of breaking the law are wrong, period. He did have a substance that violates the law. On the other hand, backers of the police, and those who are obviously police officers who make comments such as "don't call us when you need help, in much less intelligent terms, are also wrong." Just as an example, I'm far from being a KKK member or a Louis Ferricon (sp) follower, one is just as bad as the other, however when the police are instructed to protect either in public during events they must. I know it strikes a nerve, but that's your job and even those with something ugly to say do indeed pay your salary. To say that you would not help anyone in need just shows that you are not half the Officer Det. Shivers was, and maybe you should seek another form of employment.

Right to bear arms! Right to Privacy! Protection from search and seizure without due process!

All that is out the window, on an evening raid from the word of a criminal. Who is willing to stand up, after the fact, and say that Ryan should have been subjected to the search at all. Hindsight is better than 20/20. We would all make better decisions, if we could know the unintended consequences of our actions. But wait, Our forefather suffered those same kinds of raids from the British, for decades, before saying enough is enough! Holy Cow! Had the the police gone to his house at a reasonalble hour, called to him, and waited for Ryan to come out and explained they had a warrant to search his home, things would be a lot different. So move over, shut up, and let our justice system work to clarify the issues and resolve the blame. Fortunately for Ryan justice will prevail. God bless Ryan, I would have done the same thing.

new liberty-its ok to shoot when ur alone. i am home alone with our 2 dogs,just like ryan.my work hours are weird & i sleep at different hours. I'm a female,barely 100lbs and I may have a knee-jerk reaction if awakened by my 'frenzy'of barking dogs from my bed. If i take my gun,fire off a couple rounds 'fearing for my life'because I 'thought it was an intruder'especially after dark. Will I get the same support?When the UPS man delivers a package or those annoying sales people wanting to sell me siding for my home, they BANG on our door because they can't find the doorbell. This is the identical defense minus the marijuana Ryan had, you are giving the shooter. Why then do I feel like I wouldn't have the same support? It's because you hate cops-thats why.

who posted this:"botched a search warrant by going in at night on a guy with no record, and you got one of your officers killed".so many things are so very wrong w/that statement.I have no criminal record either & a perfect driving record,have i ever broken the law?of course!im just SMART enough to never have been caught.i come from(ny)lived alone(female)unarmed but if someone broke in &i shot them,i'd be charged w/murder & have to prove i "ID"d a deadly weapon by the intruder and forced to use self-defense.LEO's didn't get Det.Shiver's killed,Ryan shooting his gun did.his unreported burglary was bcuz he didn't want to list:3 grow lamps,6 plants....unless ur a cop,don't act like u know how/when their assignments are carried out."just bcuz Shivers lost his life doesn't mean ryan should lose his"-look his widow n 3 fatherless kids in the eye n tell them that.the nytimes said brad pitt is really a woman,pass it on..u all believe everything u read n hear anyway...

Wow the cow opens her mouth and spews more feel good rhetoric. I remember your post that promoted killing folks so who really is the imbecile? Get a clue and a life. Stop sticking up for this lowlife. Or do you have one of your own you are still feeding?

You forgot to say what the CHANGES are in your post. I have followed the story and have seen false reports that the warrant was for the garage only. The one I read described the house, address and included all outbuildings. I am willing to listen. I know you will quote the fact that the report from a few days ago said Shivers was in the front yard. That was new news not a change in the story. I looked back and the reports never said Shivers was going through the front door.

I saw your question. My post was a compilation of facts from all the news stories written and the warrants. The crawling through the door is an assumption people are making based on Ryan's statement that he saw someone pushing through his door. I don't know all the facts as info is either changing or being withheld. That said, I've posted several times that the CPD's warrant can be absolutely right, the procedures done as trained and all the CPD did correct. None of this has any bearing on Ryan's frame of mind and status as innocent until proven guilty. I believe the CPD to be understaffed, overworked and probably stretched thinly to do its job. They deserve our thanks and support (I haven't waivered from this position). Asking for external reviews of the CPD following this incident is the right thing to do for the police and the community. Ryan is not automatically guilty just because the police announced they were police. Would the reasonable citizen heard the shouting over the din of two large dogs barking? Hoping Chesapeake doesn't make its case against Ryan doesn't denegrate the police or Shivers.

Fredrick shot a man. weather he knew it was a cop or not is irrelivent!
He has to answer to the actions he took!

Fredrick had drugs on the premesis as the original warrant said. That is still illegal no matter what your belief is!

All the opinions are BS. I find it sick that everyone says this is a coverup.

All parties involved have to answer to their actions!

Guns just don't shoot all by themselves!

Jersey, I think the answer to the riddle lies in the door being splinterd at the bottom. I think the battering ram and crow bar they recoverd from the home (it's public knowledge) made a nice hole in the bottom of the door for someone to crawl through. This poor officer used bad judgment and had power-hungry police policy backing him up. The cops get reviewed, and this kid gets hung.

Of course, this is all speculation for now.

Here's a link to the pdf files for the search warrants for all that missed them or forgot:

http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/informant-told-police-frederick-was-growing-pot-garage

Have a great day all...

Us against them??? Maybe. When the police remember that one of their responsibilities is to SERVE AND PROTECT, maybe we'll move from an adversarial relationship to one that's more cooperative. However, as long as police actions that violate citizen's rights, cost the lives of civilians, and even cost the lives of those that wear a badge continue, this mentality is NOT going to change.

Ever been pulled over in Va Beach for a traffic ticket? Then you know. PRIDE, INTEGRITY, COMMITMENT? Yeah ok! Police that I see firsthand and through NUMEROUS accounts from friends suggest one of the largest fishing expeditions on record, and it's on-going.

Some examples: a fishing expedition by VBPD by an officer that pulled a girl over because a CORNER of her inspection sticker was curled - that's what he said to her after his second question to her. Guess what the 2nd question was (after the license/registration request): You guessed it. "How much have you had to drink?" That's fishing...

Ask about the new ticket quota in VB - that info came straight from a VB patrol officer's mouth, but I'd bet it will be denied.

Cover-up??? I said I didn't know that. What I did say is this "If (and this is a big if) there is a cover-up...". Please get your information correct before questioning.

To those that say, "don't call the cops", we don't - we know better. I called the police recently to report someone in the act of committing a crime, and the officer threatened to arrest me for talking with him (the officer). What a jackass! To top it off, he didn't charge the person, but told me I had to go the magistrate's office to swear out a warrant. Guess the coffee and donut shop was calling, and he didn't feel like doing any police work at that point of his shift.

To those that say "neither side's story has changed", I'm not sure what information you're reading, but it is not about this case. The Chesapeake PD's story has changed quite a few times, the latest twist being that Shivers was in the yard when shot. Again, this just smells terribly foul.

I think most of us here would rather help the police understand that kicking down the doors of innocent men in the middle of the night is a good way to get officers killed, for no reason.

It will be confrontational, but it is not adversarial. It's what's known as community policing, where both the public and police officers rely upon one another to stay safe. It's done through education and by speaking plainly when officers do get hurt or killed. If one officer had taken the time to speak to Frederick's neighbors, many of whom had been in Frederick's garage to see his banana trees and japanese maples, this all could have been avoided.

One conversation is all it would have taken. Instead, it took two bullets to keep the police from a place they had neither understanding of, nor a right to be.

I must start by saying that this is very sad that someone lost a life but I lost mega money and a career due to the "Justice System" in virgina beach. The commonwealth even wrote a letter saying that they made a mistake in my outcome before the appeals court heard my case, Did i receive a letter apologizing? Did I receive money for my time incarcerated? Maybe a phone call to say they were sorry NO NOTHING, I have read some of these comments and you who side with the police reguardless of any situation, "THE LADY OF JUSTICE MAY BE ON YOUR DOOR STEP AND HOPEFULLY YOU DONT GET SCREWED LIKE THIS YOUNG MAN IS" If someone is coming through my door at night they will get the same thing better wait til day light and knock on my door. Ryan if you read this all I can tell you is keep you head up through this and rest assure that the man beside you in that court room is the BEST.. (TRUST ME HE SAT BESIDE ME FOR MURDER AS WELL I SIT AT HOME, WITH NO CONVICTION) here are just 2 cases that made major headlines and both went free!!!!
1: Navy seal kills other navy seal in self defense
2: Sailor charged with lynching not enough evidence to convict let alone probably innocent of that frivolus cha

Det Shivers was not "in the yard, really" as the prosecutor claimed. See http://hamptonroads.com/node/450896...Shivers' favorite role and contribution to the SWAT team was as the "breacher," the guy that breaks down the door for the rest of the team to enter buildings. Another news article that I can't find now also said that the police moved Shivers from the porch to the yard to perform chest compressions. The prosecutor is flying loose and fast with previously stated facts. One of the articles following the memorial service quoted another police officer as saying '[Shivers] was doing what he did best when he was shot," clearing the way for others to enter.

"Why don't you just say "I hate the police" or worse. "

To the poster of this doozy and Jersey who agrees w/ them: Classic! You have spelled out why the police have to deal w/ an 'us' against 'them' attitude with the public at times. You have shown everyone on these boards that they are not allowed to have reasonable doubts abou tthe case. You have also shown your disdain for free thought. Apparently, when it comes to an issue involving a police officer, our rights are not valid if our opinions and rendering of the facts happen to differ from yours. You have in fact stated that if we disagree w/ the police that we should not have the right to their protection. The scarier thought is who I need protection from. Why should others be punished for thinking and writing?

To all those people out there, do me a favor and NEVER CALL THE POLICE AGAIN. Redaing your posts makes me sick....a couple of comments...To the poster who stated the CPD did not because the crime already happened...well DUH in progress crimes take a higher priority then some tools that were stolen...sorry about your luck...About this mystery .223 round that was there...did anyone think that maybe when Shivers was shot, it was a knee jerk reaction and his weapon discharged...or maybe there were some .223 rounds in Fredricks house...Another poster stated that this "kid" only had 3 joints does it really seem as if he would shoot a cop...let me ask this...how do you all know who would shoot a cop..all it takes is one time and your criminal record goes from nothing to felonious. I have had several dealings with the CPD, mostly positive..I will assure you that if there were a cover up, there internal affairs dept would bring it out...The warrant was good, stop your BSing

Ummm... you wrote this:

"The police and Fredrick haven't changed their stories."

Read up. Frederick hasn't changed his story, however, and this is standing out like an elephant in the room, the police HAVE changed their story more than once now, at least from what was originally reported by them. Not only have they changed their story from what was originally released, there are new embellishments from the police department.

Wow....Frederick against 14 police officers educated and experienced in the world of drugs. Very impressive.

Ms. Shiver must be throughly disgusted and sick of this aftermath.

Bless her and her children..The CPD is no longer thinking about them. The are thinking only of covering the butts of the 14 ineffective officers on the scene as well of the irresponsible actions of the department itself. Too late.

“Frederick’s supporters are planning a march and rally Saturday outside the Chesapeake jail, where he is incarcerated.”

What a spectacular show and gnashing of teeth we may witness tomorrow night. I cannot wait to see on local coverage this outstanding group of citizens exercising their local law enforcement protected right to assemble.

Will the number of “prior-arrests” immediately outside the jail exceed the combined total inside the jail? Remember, better to have those around you assume you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Come one, come all, gaze upon the greatest show on earth…

I find all of these comments amusing b/c they all lack one thing: facts. Police cannot just go to any house and serve a warrant. They must first spend weeks to months investigating that house and building eveidence. They will watch the house, the person, the people who visit the house, and the activity going on inside the house. They will talk to neighbors sometimes. It's only when they have sufficient EVIDENCE that they can even submit that evidence to the magistrate to get a warrant. So going to the "wrong house" these days is virtually impossible. The cops didn't talk to some random informant one time and decide to serve a warrant, they can't do that. So for everyone who thinks the CPD "messed up" or is covering something up that is ridiculous. They were doing their jobs trying to get drugs off the streets where kids live. We should appreciate that instead of ridiculing them. When your kids are doing drugs or something bad happens to you the first people you will blame are the cops for not doing their jobs, but when they do their jobs you still complain. Where's the respect and the appreciation? Are you willing to sacrifice your LIFE and time with your family to prot

First and foremost, we should think of the family of the officer killed in our city. Regardless of any feelings one has concerning use of this or that drug, an officer has been killed and that's what we should think of first. We can only hope his wife finds the answers to her questions, but that is questionable. Over the years I've read of CPD members being investigated for working PT using their police cars while being paid by the city,improper sex investigations on the department's computers, and housing stolen items in their homes supposedly not knowing the items were stollen. Us older gals say where there is smoke there is fire. Many have asked what we can do to change things. The CPD's leader is leaving. Break the cycle and get someone who is from the outside and not a good old boy participant capable of leading the fine officers of CPD. When you go to lunch and see 4 or 5 of CPD's big wigs you have to wonder would they ever take actions against one another, and just who is running the ship while they dine? Maybe that's where the problems start.

Jermflux, All good points but your missing one fact... Kind of a riddle if you will. I'm telling you that it is possible. It's up to you to figure it out!

.380 at approximately 950 fps velocity and 200 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) energy for JHP bullets in the 90- to 100-grain weight

.22 LR 40 grain RN lead bullet...muzzle velocity of 1,138 fps. The muzzle energy is 116 ft. lbs. in a standard 22"

Go to the range and ask someone if a .380 will punch through a door then have enough velocity and shape to kill someone. If he was using defence rounds such as hydroshocks or any other hollow points then I would say it would be close to impossible after the expansion.

I'm not saying he did not shoot the guy in the yard, I'm just saying he likely did not shoot "through" the door at someone that could have been a clumsy "girl scout".

I'm one of those people who is supporting Ryan in this and I thought the Darden shooting was understandable. It was tragic, but I didn't see anything premeditated or racist about it at all. Though I know not all cops are crooked, I am a law-abiding citizen who has personally been screwed over by the justice system. If you think the police are always out to do the right thing, you are very naive and could one day be sorry. By the way I've called 911 before and, as is usually the case, the cops were too late.

What cover up are you talking about! We would like you to explain your stupid comment... can't wait to hear it!

Whats up! Couldn't agree with you more. However, I'm sure another stupid comment will be posted soon! Nothing we can do!

I read your post amd have a few thoughts. What IF Fredrick really did know it was the police and took the shot? He just figured I will do a jail house interview with "Andy" TV 10 and plead I did not know it was the police. See what you have't learned in your education is there are two sides to the story with the truth in between. The police and Fredrick haven't changed their stories. The news media puts a little spin on it and then you have people writing BS, like the warrant was for the garage only, how can a .380 make it through a door and into the yard and then into Det. Shivers body? (to that Post, I have personally scene a .22 travel 30 feet through a metal trunk of a car, through the back seat and into the dash, dam kids!). If you actually read some of these post they are very funny. I would love to be on this jury.

It amazes me that there remain those among us who would protect and serve the ungrateful community we have become.

An officer left his home, went to work, and expected to return to his family – his family expecting this as well, not unlike most of us I would think. Instead a tragedy left two families and a community changed forever.

While the debate penned below is among the unalienable rights preserved by the man who lost his life, the cavalier nature in which assumptions are made and blame assigned disrespects the sacrifice of he and others. A court will establish the details of that night and determine the fate of the defendant.

A man lost his life. You can sell yourself short on dignity but don’t cheat the officer or his family of the honor associated with his service, or his sacrifice. You disgust me.

fairlane_68 stated that Ryan reported the burglary and the police did nothing. My son had the exact same experience. His work truck was broken into and over $1,000.00 worth of tools was stolen. After 3 calls to CPD he was finally told that they had crimes being committed at the present and didn't have time to mess with somehting that already happened. Police did nothing. What worries me about the Frederic-Shivers case is that it could happen to anyone. Anyone can pass information, true or not, and your life can change in an instant. If the police had been checking Ryan out since November, why did they wait until after dark to serve the warrant? It's common practice to knock, announce, and then bust in, but I hope this practice will be used only in life-threatening situations and not just to serve a warrant, especially when the info comes from someone that can't be identified. It takes a strong person to admit a mistake. Let's see how strong and brave CPD really is.

When they break down the wrong door... on purpose.