Killer or hero? Let's wait for facts before we pass judgment

I wonder why the police have to show up at night. How about just arresting him when he comes home from work? As far as "No Knock", how is he going to destroy Gro-Lights before opening the door? I was involved in an incident when the police called the house and asked the guy to come outside with his hands up. Everyone was calm. It's not like Ryan was a violent murderer. Of course he is accused of that now.

The cops go to the home of a garden variety neer-do-well who doesn't always get his car inspected on time and who sometimes drives like half the other idiots in town. He got First Offender status on a previous marijuana possession case and apparently complied with the terms because it eventually got dismissed. Why do the cops risk their lives on a raid over any amount or type of drug? Let alone an unlikely scofflaw such as Ryan?

Ryan has been down to the courthouse before. He knows the deal. He apparently never fought or resisted the cops before, and he paid his fines before. If there were any kind of "alerts" attached to the warrant, why aren't the cops boasting about it? Killing a cop over marijuana? Unless he is seriously delusional, depressed, paranoid, and off his medications, you don't kill a cop over a marijuana bust, especially at your own front door!

On the other hand, try to convince me that the guy was scared for his life. South Norfolk. Some bad dudes outside, acting llke animals. Now you're making sense.

Tell it to the jury. If it ever gets that far.

Target ID issue: Frederick said, "I saw someone pushing through the bottom of my door and fired." Pushing through the bottom would only be possible if the door were broken...top intact, bottom not. Positive ID is an intruder pushing through the broken remnants of his door.
Lies: Numerous articles point out CPD didn't state how much pot was seized. As soon as CPD announced "marijuana" on the evidence list but refused to characterize quantity, they lied by omission. Amount still not released, but only charge is a misdemeanor. No comment on finding Japanese Maples/tomato plants another lie of omission. Saying Frederick "shot through the door" implies door was in one piece, but Frederick says he saw someone pushing through the bottom (indicating broken door). CPD said a couple detectives served the warrant, then prosecutor claimed 2 detectives and 14 officers w/cruisers. Witnessess support two detectives, no officers/cars. CPD claims police knocked and announced, but neighbors outside at the time didn't hear them.

How is it that the Newport News Police were able to snag over 80 people in a sweep of outstanding warrants - all without even a single shot fired or anyone being injured - yet the CPD can't even handle a single warrant against someone who's "criminal" track record only went as deep as traffic violations without gunfire, horrible death of an officer, and the appearance of a coverup? Maybe the CPD should attend some of Newport News Police Departmental training.

Bottom line: The police and Ryan Frederick both made mistakes. Ryan Frederick's mistake killed someobdy.

I feel that every single person whether it a law inforcement , private citizen , has the reponsibility when they exercize the action to pick up a fire arm and pull the trigger , when the bullet leaves the barrel should be responsible , where that bullet is going to end up , right or wrong this person should have been %100 percent sure where that bullet was going to end up , and he should be accountable for this ,

Wait for the facts? What kind of statement is that from a person at a newspaper staff? Fact is a person is dead; fact is another is locked up; fact is due to the inattention to details and non-corrective actions of the leaders of the CPD and the City of Chesapeake the above facts exist.
This entire tragedy would have been avoided if action was taken, instead of now after the fact deciding to look at policies, calling in a outsider to help cover up ill procedures and processes. Past practice of the CPD has shown over zealous raids and actions, for which the CPD management should be held responsible by lawsuit. Frederick’s non-existent prior record, informant misinformation, non-existent pot growing operation, and now even reports of neighbors contradicting the police. The list goes on. Sure have a trial, but it seems to be prosecutor overkill and basically just trying to tighten the screws, thereby taking the focus off the CPD's inattention to details, their past practices documenting this mentality that lead to this tragic event, and their accountability.

I disagree with you about "10 roaches or an ounce it didn't matter its still a crime".
You have got to be kidding? right??
Painfully we are going to find out no one did their homework on this raid and look what we have. Basically Police acted on someone's "statement" and if they had solid evidence and plants and grow lights and other stuff there we would know about it by now.
I expect two lawsuits in this issue. One from Frederick and one from Mrs. Shivers and both against the city of Chesapeake even though the money will never bring closure or repair.

Rob says: "Most Police officers dont drive cars with out lights and they are always flashing, and when it's dark they are very easy to see, and I know from personal experience, when I see flashing lights the first thing i do is look outside to see what's going on"

If u think for a moment that we r going to believe that u serve a drug warrant by showing up with lights and sirens blazing, u r seriously insulting our intelligence. U want the sneaky element of suprise. The last thing u want is for anyone to know u r coming. Hence, "no knock" warrants. Spare me...

While I don't always agree with you, Dr. Tabor, I certainly do on this one.

STEVNM without being too specific, i am one of those guys that wears fatigues and carries a gun. I just not too long ago came back from the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center and we are taught how to serve a warrant......First knocking on the door and second yelling "POLICE" it is universal, everyone knows what Police means and who they are. I dont know too many people that answer the door, 1) with a gun (I dont) and 2) without peering through the peep hole or looking out the window. Most Police officers dont drive cars with out lights and they are always flashing, and when it's dark they are very easy to see, and I know from personal experience, when I see flashing lights the first thing i do is look outside to see what's going on. I dont think that anyone should be feeling sorry for this guy, irregardless if he had a couple of roaches or 10 pounds of marijuana, last i checked it's still illegal. The police have a very difficult job to do and I think it's time we stand behind what they do and not slam them all the time for what "APPEARS" wrong.

If you really want to avoid the subject at hand, it would be quite easy to find other errors within my posts. Feel free to edit my writings. Your point of view is too limited. I believe it was police procedure and meaningless drug laws that killed Mr. Shivers.

Ira made the following comment on one of my posts. "This person talks about the spread of misinformation but infers that girls scouts or someone who is lost would be kicking in a persons door."

In any case, Ryan Frederick acted irresponsibly when he fired his gun without determining who was at his door. Personally, I don't believe for one moment that the police did not announce their intentions. Ryan Frederick was not responsible, he was stupid; and, as a result of that stupidity, a good policeman is dead.

Obviousely, your opinion is baseless, worthless, not well researched, and not worth printing in a respectable medium. Is this is what to expect when the Pilot is sold, I know I'll be saving $125.00 a year from my canceled subscription.

As for investigative reporting, if the Pilot still has any, why not look to see if any connections can be made as to revenge by the good old boys in the CPD and Sheriffs Dept. that employed Ryan's mother prior to her death and the doctor he sued in connection with her death. I find it out of character in Chesapeake for the "good 'ole boys" not to be protecting or fixing a charge against one of their extended family members.

I do agree with your comment. Everyone must learn from this tragic event. Maybe another reason for no bail is that Ryan has displayed signs of hurting himself. It would do the public, CPD and Ryan no good if he was released and hurt himself. This is just a theory.

"Are you saying that people out in the country are not capable of making a decesion based upon the evidence presented. You seemed to have little respect for the country folk here in Virginia."

If you are truly representative of the jury pool in the country, then yes, that is what I am saying. I say this as a person who lives in the country. A real farming community. Trying to tie what I said into an insult to rural residents is demonstration of your inability to grasp simple ideas. This does not mean that ALL country folk would not be Mr. Frederick's peers, however, I believe you have proven my point beyond anyones doubts. Many people who live in the country do so because they despise what the city has to offer, and there is a large gap in lifestyles that cannot be overcome. Yes, it would actually be jury tampering im my opinion as opposed to a change of venue for justice's sake if it were moved to a rural county. Thanks for underlineing that for us.

First, of course the death of Det. Shivers is the greater tragedy here. Failing to learn from it and repeating those circumstances would be only thing that could be even worse.

But under our system of justice, Frederick is innocent until proven guilty. The 8th Amendment requires bail prior to trial unless there is a risk of flight or further danger to the public. Neither of these applies here. In effect, he is being punished, guilty or not, because we feel so bad about a policeman dying. If, in the confusion of this raid, a policeman had instead killed Frederick, would you also be demanding he be held without bail for a year until trial?

Frederick did not go looking for a fight, one was brought to his door. There were many precautions that could have saved Det. Shivers that were not taken, and those responsible for those choices should be held responsible.

U stated "When will accountability be placed on the person shooting the gun and not the excuses for why they shot?"

That will happen when the person who did the shooting was clearly in the wrong for doing so. That isnt the case in this instance. When will accountability be placed on government for their failed drug war policies that trample rights and enable government agents to storm the homes of non-violent citizens over something as silly as a plant?

By the time the case is tried, yes, it could be a year and the outcome may be that he is guilty, not innocent as your scenario portrays. Your question was who will give him his year back? My question is the obvious:either outcome applies,a father,brother,friend and husband are dead forever, who will give Jarrod Shiver's HIS LIFE back? Who will give his widow her husband back-his 3 children their father back and so on? As one poster stated,if only Ryan hadn't shot his gun blindly.He wouldn't be in jail and he'd have a heck of a better case against the CPD. Rumor has it he barely missed one of his own dogs while shooting.I suppose a dead dog would be blamed on the CPD too. When will accountability be placed on the person shooting the gun and not the excuses for why they shot?

Are you saying that people out in the country are not capable of making a decesion based upon the evidence presented. You seemed to have little respect for the country folk here in Virginia. I hope you just made the wrong point and meant no harm. Later, I have to go get on my JD and prepare for the spring crops so you can eat.
"A jury of your peers", if that was the case, then put 6 police officers and 6 pot smokers on the jury :) (would never happen).

rrc1943 is the funniest poster to date. This person talks about the spread of misinformation but infers that girls scouts or someone who is lost would be kicking in a persons door. The this doozy:

"Ryan Frederick's actions were far from those of a "responsible" individual. They were more consistent with the actions of someone in a ."

If he was truly suffering from a "marijuana-induced state-of-mind," the girl scouts may have to worry about their cookies being sold out but that is about it. Yes, yes, I believe this information was derived from the movie 'Reefer madness' that was shown to the youths of yesteryear in glorious black and white. It implied they would lose their minds and virginity if they smoked the killer weed. I believe they would play piano badly as well.

Intelligent society? I am literally holding my sides from laughter.

She's not always so blindly pro law enforcement.I remember an article she wrote when she was stopped at a DUI checkpoint years ago.She complained then that the cops should find another,less extreme way to get drunks off the road. She shouldn't have had her sacred progress halted for something like that. I believe she referred to those officers as "jack booted thugs". No break for them because they were "just doing their job". Nope, they were intentionally interfering with her God given right to drive. Oh WAIT, that's a STATE given right, I forgot. As opposed to those pesky other rights cited in the US Constitution as being bestowed on all men by our Creator. Uh, like the right to self defense, the right to be secure in one's own home and person. So be fair. Yes, her judgement's awful, but at least she applies it across the board.

Chesapeake may be in a bit of a catch 22 here. They are reviewing the situation but if they make any changes to procedures, it could look like they may be legitimizing the claim of self defense.

Thank you for the link and I did read the story when it first happened. the only situation that is close is that there was gun fire. The story you are referring to is different in several ways. First, the police did announce themselves, but who knew the homeowner did not speak english. Second, it appears the home owner was on the second floor of his house when the police announced and started up the stairs. Again, who knew the armed homeowner did not speak english.
I agree with you the homeowner stated through a translator he was protecting his family. Also, the police did admit they information they received was bad and the guy wasn't charged.
As for the Fredrick case, the information wasn't bad, he did have marijuana in the house and it appears there was materials to grow marijuana in the garage. If Fredrick was growing Japanese Maple trees and banna trees, then he just one very unlucky person.
Thanks again for the link, it does make you think.

"Let this case be tried someplace where a jury pool at least has the potential of reaching a verdict based on an objective perspective and only the evidence presented."

As I alluded to in an earlier post, I believe KD's intention was to add hard copy evidence when the prosecutor tries to move the trial to a more rural area. This will in fact remove the chance of being tried by his 'peers.' I believe she is a tool of the prosecution. I believe there will be other attempts to add to the contention of this being tainted by the media so the prosecution can have this tried by a bunch of farmers who are scared of the word marijuana. I believe there is no where better than the local area for this trial. After all, who are his peers?

Watch and learn folks. Yes, it could be you.

That "informant" is the true culprit. He deserves to be in jail instead of kicking back smokin weed and enjoying his immunity.

wa1rus91 refers to Ryan Frederick as a "responsible" individual.

Can someone please explain to me how an allegedly "responsible" individual fires a gun through a door without first determining who is on the other side? It could have been a neighbor, someone looking for directions or help, or even a girl scout trying to make some cookie sales.

Ryan Frederick's actions were far from those of a "responsible" individual. They were more consistent with the actions of someone in a marijuana-induced state-of-mind.

wa1rus91 also alleges that the police and prosecutor are issuing false and misleading statements. I believe that the bleeding-heart Ryan Frederick supporters are doing the same.

Ms. Dougherty has certainly let us know where she stands on this subject. As a representative of the Pilot I'm a little shocked. Ms. Dougherty in my opinion falls into the "sheeple" category. It doesn't matter what the government does to the people because it doesn't impact me. The government must be looking out for my best interests... Yeah, OK. When the Nazi's are looking for block captains I'm sure they'll look you up.

It's not about the 3 joints worth of weed, it's about the storm troopers kicking doors in. Wake up Kerry. If we allow this type of behavior then by proxy we are enabling, supporting, and encouraging it. The anti-civil rights activity will grow worse incrementally until one day everyone looks around and says, how did this happen? How did our country become a police state? Take a look, it's happening now. Cameras in the cities watching us, our phone calls can be legally monitored in the name of homeland security, folks are questioning the requirement for Miranda rights, random road blocks. Our police force is becoming more and more violent and we're letting it happen.

The real problem as I see it is the perpetration of the US VS THEM mentality betweeen the citizenry and the police which Kerry has joined. A SWAT team should only be used for extreme situations, not routine drug enforcement. The potential harm to innocent people outweighs the benefit IMHO. Perhaps Det. Shivers unfortunate & untimely death can serve to open a meaningful dialogue on the legitimate use of SWAT teams. Chesapeake's current policy puts everyone-citizens, children, dogs & police officers in an unnecessarily dangerous situation. While Ryan Frederick's supporters may seem naive I would hardly call their support "hero worship". I think the real issue is whether or not we should allow deadly force to be used to excute a routine drug enforcement warranted backed up by only a tip and no physical evidence, instead of "Ryan Frederick vs. Det. Shivers". It's way bigger than that.

Kerry has absolutely no journalistic talent and shouldn't be allowed to write an article in the news (opinion or not) branding a man guilty before his trial. I would have done what he did if I had no reason to believe police would be breaking into my house and I awoke to find someone kicking in my door in South Norfolk. THAT is why so many people are standing behind Ryan F.