Lawmakers douse all bills that ban smoking in public

Once again the General Assembly goes against the wishes of the majority of Virginians. How do these morons keep getting re-elected? Oh yeah, speacial interests like the tobacco industry.

For the same reason that I can't find a job that will pay me $700.00 an hour for sitting around on my butt. Life isn't fair.

What about the employees? You know, the ones who can't always afford to pick and choose where they work based on how sweet the conditions are. Why are they forced to endure second hand smoke just because smokers are too lazy (or inconsiderate, or both) to walk outside to smoke?

Ken says "I can tell you right now if Norfolk succeeds in banning smoking there I'm going to spend a lot of time there, easily more than anyplace else."

Well Ken, that is the CHOICE you have sir. You would be free to spend as much time in Norfolk and patronize as many smoke free restaurants and establishments as you wish. That is the whole argument here is freedom to choose. I am a non-smoker too and I don't like to eat my dinner while someone is smoking. So I choose to patronize restaurants that are non-smoking. It is totally irrevelavent that there are more non-smokers than smokers. This is not democracy....this is the rule of law. Both are totally incompatable with each other.

What none of the NON-SMOKING NAZIS fail to realize is this: Bars and restaurants are about the ONLY places in our state where they may encounter cigarrette smoke in an enclosed public space. We can't smoke in stores, offices, theaters, hospitals, Nursing homes, etc. The market has already set the scene where many bars and restaurants have prohibited smoking in their businesses, of their own accord. So these NON-SMOKING NAZIS can readily and easily go out to eat where smoking is not allowed. Get off the backs of us smokers - it is still legal, and it is still MY health! Don't go where we go and you won't experience second hand smoke! Its that simple! Again, let the individual business owner decide, not the government or the NON-SMOKING NAZI movement. I am SO PROUD of our legislators for having the guts to stand up for individual rights and tell the people who want to nanny us to death, to stop it! Face it people, you can change your restaurant choice easily to a non-smoking establishment. Leave my favorite places that allow smoking ALONE!

What's really sad is that so many otherwise toleant places are now joining the War on Smokers. What the media don't usually tell us about Europe is that there's wide opposition and amny of their "bans" alow a separate room for smokers.
I rejoice every time a smoking ban bill is defeated. Good for Virginia--maybe I'll spend some of my tourist dollar in your state this year. We were looking at Maryland for a family vacation, but since they passed a smoking ban, I shan't be going there.

Many of the posters seem unable or unwilling, to admit that smoking cigarettes is the most addictive habit, legal or illegal in which one may partake. Yes, drunk driving causes accidents, some fatal. However, cigarettes & guns are 2 of the few legal products that not only can contribute to bodily harm & death, they are also among the few that when used as intended, out right cause death.
Yes, one has the right to smoke if one wishes, if one wishes to slowly kill oneself. However, smokers do not have the right to expose anyone else to these odoriferous, nonbiodegradable, cancer-sticks. Period!
I realize some may think it a curtailment of their rights, to ban smoking in public & that restaurant owners should have the right to decide the issue of smoke-free or not. Yet, I'm old enough to remember that argument being used by ones that didn't wish to see integrated restaurants. The argument lacked merit then, and still does today.

"If one city bans smoking in restaurants and another city does not, then it is possible that patrons who wish to smoke will go to another city where no such ban exists."

The reverse is also true. If a city bans smoking, then everyone who wants to dine without inhaling cigarette smoke (and there are more of us than there are of you) will make it a point to frequent the restaurants in said city.

I can tell you right now if Norfolk succeeds in banning smoking there I'm going to spend a lot of time there, easily more than anyplace else.

Gabrielle asks "If smoke-free policies didn't hurt business, why do so many owners insist they want all to be smoke-free at the point of government guns so they don't lose business to other places?"

I think you hit the nail on the head. If one city bans smoking in restaurants and another city does not, then it is possible that patrons who wish to smoke will go to another city where no such ban exists. Just like the boat tax argument was. Hence if ALL cities in the "region" aka regional big government banned smoking, then the restaurants could shrug their sholders and say goverment "made" us ban smoking in our establishment. Therefore there would be no choice to go elsewhere and being a regional ban it would not be cost effective to dine somewhere else that allows smoking.

Smoky bar triggered fatal asthma attack:
First case of secondhand smoke causing an immediate death, study says
updated 6:38 p.m. ET, Fri., Feb. 8, 2008
A woman in her late teens died from an acute asthma attack triggered by secondhand cigarette smoke shortly after arriving at her job as a waitress in a bar in Michigan, researchers reported on Friday.

The good news is it's just a matter of time and Va will have a smoking ban. Virginia is just behind the times in many area that deal with health and fitness, but I feel as narrow-minded old timers fade away, that'll be fixed.

Besides, could you have imagined a smoking ban even being mentioned 10 years ago?

How difficult is it to walk outside to smoke? More or less complicated than throwing a used cigarette butt in a trash can? Based on all the paranoia I've seen here about "big government" I'm guessing everyone was against the constitutional amendment that banned gay marriage.

A truce, aye. Also, perhaps I was too harsh on my hometown. Maybe I'll stay awhile after all. The climate and air is rather nice come to think of it.

I'm a senior citizen and have seen more than my share of big government. If this smoking ban should proceed it won't stop there, actually it will just be the beginning. This country and business in general operates on choices provided by options. Every business owner should have that opetion just as the public should have the option of what bar or restaurant they choose to frequent. What we are reading on these boards is a group of people telling everyone else their option is wrong, their right to choose is wrong and that is a huge mistake. Many aren't looking at the big picture but are moditaved my selfish wnats. I want this, I want that, I deserve this, I deserve that. For God sakes get a grip, you world isn't falling apart because people want to smoke and should have that option based on the option of the place they frequent. The whining is totally unbelievable!

"You can always tell when a lawyer (or car salesman) is lying to you. His lips are moving." Truthfully, I would argue for the rights of the restaurant (or bar) owner to make his/her own business decisions regarding his/her employees and customers. I have no use for lobbyists or corporations myself - I lined the pockets of quite a few undeserving corporate types, back in my younger days, when I designed, wrote and fixed computer (software) systems.
I do apologise for any perceived insults that you suffered - perhaps my fangs were showing a bit (more than a bit?) more than I intended...

PAX?

And I even wished you a nice weekend. Shame on me.

I must object as it is a health issue. But of course you will argue that one doesn't have to work/eat in such a place. So there we are.

I believe you must either be a car salesman or an attorney. Either profession will argue for the sake of argument. Well, best of luck selling the '08s or screwing the little guy to line the corporate wallet. I guess that last one can apply to either job.

Why are so many of them already banning smoking? Everyplace this happens there is a short decline while the smokers pout over not being able to ruin everyone else's meal. Then word gets out and the non-smokers, who are now the majority by the way, frequent said business and stay longer than they normally would since they don't have to cough their way through the evening and can actually taste the food and drink.

Sheer astonishment at the lack of knowlege shown in so many of the posts on this article. The armshair quarterbacks sitting comfortably behind their keyboards claiming to know why these bills were (rightfully) killed is rather humorous. The tobacco industry, and PM specifically, have nothing to say about these proposals, in fact PM refuses to oppose them.

People that testified in opposition to the ban did so on their own time and their own dime. Most who support these bans and lobby for them are paid professional lobbyists with a few brainwashed sheeple tossed i for good measure.

If smoke-free policies didn't hurt business, why do so many owners insist they want all to be smoke-free at the point of government guns so they don't lose business to other places?

You may choose to complacently watch as others clutter our streets and parks with dangerous lighted cigarettes but I choose not to. It also will certainly take more than you to shut me up. I don't think it's all about me but since I have but one life to live, I don't plan on allowing other's selfish habit of smoking to compromise my health. After years of fighting to breathe air free of cigarette smoke which causes me to have an asthma attack, I am simply way over trying to be polite. Smokers know they are damaging others and apparently don't care. Likewise, I have lost all caring and respect for them and won't hesitate to let them know; however, I will work harder or being more civil about it.

Now have a good day and I intend this to be my final post of this subject...aren't you happy now?

I think it's obvious that we'll eventually see a wave of secondhand smoke lawsuits against our state that we as tax payers will have to pay. Our state government, by taking this action to stop a smoking ban, will contribute to more cases on cancer.

This is the same august body that supports the decay of our cities by hindering the local government's ability to fight blight.

I hope they sleep well.

"Me feel superior?" - Permit me to quote you, "Finally, I only feel superior and intolerant of smokers." I mentioned that because I simply didn't want you to injure yourself, patting yourself on the head, if you assumed that I was one of those "inferior" smokers. Your point about hydrocarbons has some merit, except - if you replace the lethal level of hydrocarbons in the garage with an equal concentration (parts per million) of second-hand smoke, you will die of dehydration / starvation, long before the smoke kills you. I don't see how the consumption of red meat makes me a hypocrite - I'm not the one who expects the government to enact laws to protect me from the multitude of things that offend me personally. As I pointed out to Barbj in a different posting - for the same reason - I was just having a little fun at the expense of someone who seems completely oblivious to the existence and degree of his own hypocrisy... As far as, "stroking my ego" - I derive NO satisfaction from dueling with someone who has left his gun at home.

Good Morning Everyone, Just a couple of incidents that I encountered yesterday and thought interesting enough to share: Despite signs saying no smoking within 30 feet of door at Norfolk airport, people still congregate in front of the door allowing their stench to waft in and out of the bldg.; I had to walk a gauntlet of smoke to get into Farm Fresh where again, people seem to think (no actually NOT think) about their cancer stick smoke entering the store; the last incident was the best: a very mature woman entering Marshalls puffing a lit cigarette dropped it on the ground before entering the store. I reminded her it was littering to which she replied she knew and was intending to pick it up on the way out. Outraged I called her a pig while realizing, as others have mentioned to me on post, I need to get a grip on my emotions. Perhaps someone can recommend what I can do besides lock myself in my home. On a happier not, dinner with friends last night at McCormick's and Schmidt was terrific and smoke free.

Me feel superior? I suggest you take a look at yourself as you can't seem to get off this moron/idiot tangent. Fine, I change my previous post word "idiotic" to "moronic". Feel a tad more smug now?

I love it when someone brings up the "hydrocarbons will kill you too" argument. What a load of horse manure. Granted, if you sit in a closed garage an idle for a while you will die but please, you know as well as I that is grasping for straws. Breathing second-hand smoke IS a health issue for everyone. Finally, if you want to talk hypocrite have you ever ordered a steak in a restaurant? That red meat is a killer.

I have grown weary of this. Go ahead and declare yourself winner if it strokes your ego. I bid you good day. Enjoy your weekend (as much as is possible here in backwoods VA).

Actually, there is a significant difference between the two - morons, for the most part, are functional in society - idiots are not.
I can see why you feel superior, though - it only took you 3 hours to find a dictionary. Since I don't smoke, I won't worry about you doing yourself an injury, patting yourself on the head, on my account.
You stated in an earlier posting that "carcinogens are a health hazard." You're absolutely right. So are hydrocarbon vapors (automobile exhaust) - they can kill you in a matter of hours. So is talking / texting on a cell, while driving - you endanger yourself, and everyone around you. Have you ever started a car? Used a cell while driving? If the answer to either is yes, you're a hypocrite. "Those who live in glass houses," etc. You and I both know that the health issue, is not the issue - it's the odor. This is not sufficient reason to enact a law, prohibiting people from consuming a legal product, or usurping a restaurant owners right to control and manage his own property.

I think it's about right and wrong. It is wrong to allow Big Governement to control a business in regard to smoking it should be an individual business option. What you and others want is what you want, when you want it and you want it right now. You aren't looking for an intelligent conversation you are looking for people who agree with you. Sorry, but quite often that simply doesn't work and thank God we don't all think alike.

It is simple. The business owners should decide what is right inside their establishments. Based on what they want to attract. Freedom is paramount to our way of life! It's that easy! You DUMB people quit attracting yet more 'government involvement' in commerce. When the Government gets involved, it becomes more corrupt and therefore less efficient.

Splitting hairs with the moron/idiot link, don't you think? Granted, a moron is a few IQ points up from an idiot but both mean about the same. So keep you nitpicks to yourself. As for me leaving, it pains me greatly as my ancestors have lived in the region since the 17th century. I am frankly tired of how Republican the area is (especially VB) and how redneck it is. Sure, there are pockets of culture but this is and always will be a pork rinds kind of town.

swd - Wow. It all seems so clear now that you have explained it to me. Thanks much. Now I can go and live a changed man and surrender my rights to a bunch of militant smokers who equate not being able to smoke in a restaurant as an assault on the tree of liberty. Please. Finally, I only feel superior and intolerant of smokers. Live and let live for pretty much everyone else.

It seems so dumb to me that Virginia lawmakers want to keep permitting it's citizens to be unhealthy, but will not allow gambling. This state would be benefit greatly with slots at Colonial Downs. The economy in this state would change dramatically. But, instead, the lawmakers just say that gambling would be bad for it's citizens. But, yet, smoking kills many Virginians annually. I know at the next election for my local representatives, my vote will be for those who represent my views.

After reading tonight's comments, I felt that this was worth repeating:

"God, this gets tiring trying to explain a simple concept when all you seem to want to do is yap about your own stance."

Yeah, we know the feeling...

God Bless America, and have a good night.

jmo

In OUR own homes to BOOT!