Small group rallies in support of man accused in Chesapeake officer's death

I haven't heard back from the AG regarding my inquiry. I will be surprised if I do as my question borders on a legal opinion. However, if I do, I will post my question and their response for you. r/ Keith

Yes Ryan put himself in that situation, read all the articles again, the informant had been used reliably before, the police had the house under survelance (sp), There was enough for probable cause or else the warrant would not have been issued.

Guess it's hard for me to consider an informant that thinks a Japanese Maple is something other than it is to be reliable. If someone supplies information to police, they should know enough about drugs to have proved their reliability. The police should have total and complete faith in what the informant says, or do whatever additional research needed to confirm what they are told. If it is a matter of loads of plants being in a home, why not wait till the suspect leaves for work and stop them outside the home. The suspect is then under control of the police and the warrant can then be executed. Frederick did violate the law. That's a fact and deserves to be punished for that. Detective Shivers is the real looser having paid the largest of costs which must now be in the minds of his family forever. The lack of considering policy until after such an event happens, as well as thinking of ways to safely execute the warrant rests on the sholders of the supervisors involved. Not just the immediate supervisor, but all the way to the top where the policy and SOP originated. Detective Shivers was following orders and doing as he was directed.

I'm in disagreement that "Ryan was responsible for creating the situation in which he would have to defend himself...by having enough probable cause to have a warrant issued." I was under the impression that the police didn't confiscate cannabis plants, but rather maple trees. If someone walks by my house and sees some plants in the window that they suspect are illegal and they are not, then I hold the responsibility for the warrant? Ignorance is ignorance. It sounds as though the police received poor information. If the pilot receives poor information and publishes a story that says the world is turning purple because of an informant's information, then the pilot is the fool. Make the same analogy to the CPD.

Let me know if you hear anything from the AG.

PEMA - If you go to any nursery and price Japanese Maples, you'll discover that they start at about $250.00...

newsflash: a drugdealer doesn't wear a t-shirt that announces it or brags about what he does off work hours.if I had a dime for every pot smoking,coke snorting suit i worked with in an office that was supposedly a "drug-free work place" I would be independently wealthy.How many real life cases have you seen on national news of serial killers etc where the neighbors are interviewed and the no.1 thing that is said about the criminal is: "he was such a nice guy, quiet,kept to himself ,would do anything for you..." please...n yes, japanese maples DO resemble cannabis..if you're COLORBLIND! ya know who's getting a good laugh from all of this? the burglars that got away with ryans cannabis plants.theyre probably the ones who replaced them with japanese maples as a joke to pi$$ him off.

to UNIONMAN,sure,easy for u to ask only ONE poster to be kind,have u read the other posts here?new liberty-its ok to shoot when ur alone. i am home alone with 2 dogs,just like ryan.my work hours are weird & i sleep at different hours. I'm a female,barely 100lbs and I may have a knee-jerk reaction if awakened by my 'frenzy'of barking dogs from my bed. If i take my gun,fire off a couple rounds 'fearing for my life'because I 'thought it was an intruder'especially after dark. Will I get the same support?When the UPS man delivers a package or those annoying sales people wanting to sell me siding for my home, they BANG on our door because they can't find the doorbell. Why then do I feel like I wouldn't have the same support?

Very true. Section III does mention a retreat to the wall. That was why I didn't feel that duty to retreat was not necessarily the rule of law as there are different circumstances in each case. I did send an email to The Virginia Attorney Generals Office asking for clarification. Whether I will get an answer or any clarification remains to be seen.

I found that and read it also, that just defines the 2 types of self-defense, IF it was in fact self defense. And then again, look at section III again, where if you are partially responsible for creating the situation in which you have to defend yourself (which ryan did by having enough probable cause to have a warrant issued) You must declare you want peace, and you must "retreat to the wall".

As for the "duty to retreat" I have to respectfully disagree with you again. I have read and understand The Castle Doctrine and understand what it means. Virginia is NOT one of those states that has such a doctrine. However, I haven't found any law that explicitly says that you have duty to retreat either. I think such circumstances of one defending his family using deadly force would be done on a case by case basis and not just a generic rule for everyone. I did find an article written by a Virginia Attorney that explains some of these scenarios. http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/SummaryOfVAFirearmsLaw.pdf. It's been a good debate though. r/ Keith

Greetings brpster,
I did look up the right bill. Here it is. IT FAILED! This is from their website.
HB 710 Self defense and defense of others; person occupying dwelling may justify when unlawful entry. Patron William Janis
02/18/08 Senate: Passed by indefinitely in Courts of Justice (11-Y 4-N)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YEAS--Marsh, Saslaw, Stolle, Quayle, Norment, Howell, Lucas, Edwards, Reynolds, Puller, Deeds--11.
NAYS--Cuccinelli, Obenshain, McDougle, Hurt--4.
ABSTENTIONS--0.

It is a needed bill and this is the third time that I know of that it failed The Senate Courts of Justice. Senator Ken Stolle was Chairman of that committee until this year. Bills of this type pass The House every time.
As for § 18.2-279. Discharging firearms or missiles within or at building or dwelling house; penalty. (from vacontractor)I would argue that this would be the charge for someone who acts as the aggressor with the intent to do physical harm to someone or a drive-by shooting and not necessarily for someone acting in self defense. Guilt or innocence would be case by case.
As for the "duty to retreat" I have to respectfully d

To all you concerned citizens out there, I can't wait to see what you think after the trial when all the evidence comes out. You will see the CPD is not trying to cover anything up. The details of that night can not be released for a reason. To all you people who think you are owed the the answers and need to know the truth, you will in time. THe only people who are going to get the CPD's version of what happened is Ryan and his lawyer. If you noticed as soon as Ryan got a lawyer, he very quickly told him no more interviews with the media. That is done for a reason. The truth has already been twisted so many ways, it's no telling you are coming up with all this crazy stuff. To all you so called Law enforcement, If you truly are, you know information is not released. It is not a cover up, it's called an investigation. Shame on you. The fact is Ryan killed a good man, nothing any of you say will bring him back. If he meant to or not he will hopefully spend a long time in jail thinking about it.

SWAT teams were created to deal with extreme situations, not to be used for routine drug enforcement. The plight of Ryan frederick is not unique unfortunately. My heart goes out to the family, I'm sure Officer Shivers was a good man doing his job, but tell me, if Mr. frederick had retreated & the officers saw him holding a gun, waiting to get a good look before he shot, wouldn't HE be dead instead? The ending of a life is always wrong. It has been suggested that SWAT raids at least be confined to daylight hours which would aid the resident in seeing that it is indeed police officers at the door. This tragedy will continue to occur~just ask the family of 92-year-old Kathryn Johnston who was killed by police during a raid conducted at the wrong house in November 2006,in Atlanta, GA. Ms. Johnston fired at the police officers as they were breaking in through her living room window. Three officers were injured, but Ms. Johnston was struck 39 times and died at the scene.On Friday, 1/4/08, a SWAT team, serving an ordinary drug search warrant, invaded the Ohio home of Tarika Wilson -- an innocent woman -- shot and killed her, and shot her one-year-old son. Two dogs were shot too.

I have a BA in Criminology and 27 years law enforcement and have served many search warrants......this case STINKS like a cover up! Fredrick IS responsible for killing a police officer...BUT somebody APPROVED this MESS and is responsible for allowing a "NO KNOCK" on this BS information....Anybody comes crashing through my door at night WILL be shot!

I have found that Joe Citizen cannot have the same fear for his life and use the same force that he deems necessary that a policeman, judge, or prosecutor can. Simply because of who he is.

It is likely that Ryan Frederick and the Chesapeake Police both made some errors in judgment leading to the death of Det. Shivers, but we really need to consider to what standard each is to be held.

It is ridiculous to hold a frightened young man, awakened from sleep with only seconds to evaluate what was happening, and make a life or death decision, to a higher standard than we would hold the police department which had the advantage of prior planning and preparation for their actions. The police could have used a bullhorn to announce, or turned on their sirens for a few seconds, and eliminated all doubt that it was them and not a thug knocking down the door. They had all the opportunity to plan and leaved nothing to chance, but they chose to create what even they concede is a dangerous situation. To then, when the worst happens, assign all blame to Frederick, is an evasion of the responsibility they should be acknowledging as a first step to ensuring it does not happen again.

RRC - Whom do you support, when the police turn out to be criminals?

U-R-SUBAR - Actually, the average IQ in Chesapeake has increased, since your departure - Thank You.

I know someone who works in the Chesapeake Courts (very high position) they told me that they brought in this special prosecutor due to the fact that the lead Chesapeake prosectutor is up for judge and they thought there is no way that the city wins this case - this is a complete sham. Injustice for all I guess.

For those who understand our form of government, this is not a matter of siding with the police or with Frederick, it is an exercise of our duty as citizens to maintain the Rule of Law, which is the basis of our Liberty.

The Rule of Law constrains the government, and its agents, the police, just as it does the criminal. Though we often defer that duty of oversight to the press, it is, in the end, the duty of every citizen to ensure that government remain within its limited powers. We cannot exercise that oversight when any portion of government acts in secrecy. Though is some very narrow areas, government agents must act in secret, the general operations of our police do not fall into that category. When mistakes are made, the public has a need to know and to ensure they are not repeated, so cover-ups such as we are facing here cannot be tolerated.

So long as the CPD continues to stonewall on unanswered questions, such as the mystery .223 cartridge case, we must view all they say with suspicion.

I am not going to sling mud-but wait for the trial to support Ryan. The witnesses will come forward (his neighbor) and square up the confusion on the fact that the police didn't properly identify themselves. This guy was in bed sleeping when they kicked in the bottom half of the door. Ryan is a person-not a drug dealer like you cop supporters are trying to portray. This isn't Shiver's against Frederick. This isn't a playstation game. Someone died becuase the negligence of the Chesapeake Police Dept. Let's wait for the trial and see what this search warrant said these Clowns were looking for. Obviously this kid had a small amount of Marijuana for personal consumption (people this drug is controlled by the gov't becuase the drug companies that rule our world don't make it) I bet my life on it that 75% of those cops are on Paxil or Lexipro. And don't come back at me and say I am a drug user and that's why I feel the way I do. I am an outstanding citizen (never been in trouble in my 40 years-and I don't take drugs) I just know a police screw up when I see one.

Believe any version of this story that you want. Now envision that the police accidently went to the wrong house that night and the result was the same (Officer Shivers lost his life). The person doing the shooting was: (pick one)

A. Chesapeake Mayor Dalton Edge or a "prominent citizen"
B. another LEO from a nearby city
C. a senior citizen, female 72 years old

The result would be:
No murder charge, no being held without bail, no special prosecutor,no appointed judge, no magic bullet,no changing story. The only thing the prosecution can't do is bring in a jury of their liking. Stop wasting taxpayer time and money just because the police want revenge.

From reginan96795: “I can't believe this kid would risk going to prison for the rest of his life or worse for alittle pot.”

Response: He would not be going to jail for "a little pot." He would be going to jail for killing someone.

s.j. quoted the 4th Amendment, “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated.”

Response: The key phrase is "unreasonable searches and seizures." The search warrant was authorized by a judge who determined that the search was not "unreasonable." Had the judge felt the police did not have sufficient cause to search Ryan's house, the warrant would not have been issued. Therefore, I submit that references to the 4th Amendment are moot.

Wrong Amendment! Thanks Keith

You must be looking at the wrong bill, go look up HB710, Stolle voted YES for it. And it has passed the judicial committee. You must be looking at a bill from last year, not this year. And you have not insulted me, you just don't understand the Castle Doctrine, go to their website and it will explain it thoroughly to you. VA is a "duty to retreat" state. And I don't care what city in VA you ask a police officer, lawyer, or judge they will all tell you the same thing. And vacontractor put up the code that says if you discharge a firearm in a building (no matter what the reason) you are responsible for the results of that firing. And I guarantee you, and you can look up case laws, if this had been a thief breaking in, and Mr. Frederick had fired, and wounded the thief, the thief would win his civil case and Mr. Frederick would be charged with malicious wounding as well. It has happened before, so no, there is no "Stand you ground" in VA, it is "Duty to Retreat"

What happened before is not this case.
Why do COPS run around pulling their guns, because drug dealing punks have no respect for any human life and would rather shoot anyone, vs go to jail. What CPD did in the past, hopefully will have taught them a lesson. No cop wants to walk up to the door and just knock and wait to get shot. We have laws no matter you agree or not with that law, they passed it and we as citizens must follow. If not, robbery would be legal, and murder, and what ever else. We live free to make decissions to control our life, but not free to not live with a governing doctrine, or set of basic laws everyone must follow. RF may need help. He may be scared. He might want his family. He pulled the trigger on the gun that ended another mans life. He has to answer for that. CPD doesn't have to justify themselves now about the incident with the 72 yr old lady, and they had a warrant signed by the Judge.

Ryan: I'm on your side. I only wish you hadn't shot the gun at all. The city of Chesapeake would have had MORE egg on their face breaking into a home AGAIN with bad information. It would have been interesting to see how they weasled out of breaking down the door looking for pot plants and only finding those maple trees. I hope your lawyer is able to mention in court the mistake the cops made breaking into that wrong house several months before they broke down the door to your home.

Why didn't he call 911 ? most people do that, if he had time to grab his gun he had time to call 911. And why didn't he wait until he saw the target he was shooting at ? This is called "I thought he was a deer so I fired at it"
Police has to know who and what and why they were shooting at, why is this guy an exception ? Remember this is not Texas where you can shoot people over over your property.

Sorry folks. With respect, I think you are referring to The FOURTH Amendment, not The Fourteenth.

As sad as this is, I don't think this kid will see justice. Now the cops are changing their story. What is this Shivers was in the yard crap. I don't believe it and who is going to dispute this. Certainly not the police. I can't believe this kid would risk going to prison for the rest of his life or worse for alittle pot. I hope his lawyer knows what he's doing. This high profile prosecutor is just trying to get his mame in lights again. I wish someone on CNN or one of the major news channels would get a hold of this. Please put me on the jury, I would not convict this kid of first degree murder and I hope everyone on the jury will see this for what it is. A tragic mistake!