Virginia Beach council stands by smoking-ban bills

I see exactly where the low class is coming from and it's you Robyn. There are any number of restaurants that have a bar and they are smoke free. Park yourself on one of their barstools and have all the adult conversation you want to instead of whining about a bar that does allow smoking. What's irritating is your choice to go to a bar that allows smoking, and then sit back and compain about it. Maybe you aren't adult enought to figure that out!

My husband and I go to the local bar simply for adult conversation and a social atmosphere. We are non-smokers. We observe many smokers who are of low class and ill-mannered. These smokers only care about themselves, they consider it their right to pollute the air and if we don't like it....we can stay home. When did they become the owners of the bar scene? Who elected them in charge? Non-smokers are the ones who are informed of the health concerns of our country, and the ones who are intelligent about the real issues.
Nebraska and Wisconsin understand the issue...and made the intelligent decision. It's coming Virginia, get ready.

If they ban smoking at bars I hope they also ban alcohol. I can't think of anything better than a cigerette with a shot of bourbon. I have no problem with them banning smoking in restuarants, but bars? I bet majority of alcohol consumption at bars is done by smokers, so if the ban passes its time for a boycott.

Thanks for reminding everyone about the flaws we humans all possess. I know no one who would dispute you. The thing about smoking though is it injures other people, which is why it needs to be banned. I, and every other human, have faults whether it's we talk too much, are selfish or rude and many other unflattering traits of the human condition. These behaviors, while making life unpleasant for others, will not induce an asthma attack nor cause cancer and other compromising health issues. Yes, smoking is an addiction but like all addictions, people can overcome them if they really want to. To say otherwise is too deny the accomplishments of thousands who have quit, myself being one.

I support the city council wasting its time debating whether to support a ban on smoking in restaurants, it keeps them from spending more of our money on their friends private deals. MAybe they can debate banning alcohol consumption thus preventing death from drunken violence and DUIs. Or debate banning swimming at the beach to prevent drowning; or any other petty issue by our hot aired politicians who seek to take more control away from individuals and put it in their hands. The more they debate this, the less time they have to discuss taxpayer funded bridges over Va Beach Blvd or the vast array of sweetheart deals they've made with private developers. What a joke!

Submitted by John Wilburn on Thu, 02/28/2008 at 10:44 am.

Cricket - according to the AMA (American Medical Association) - mistakes made by "Medical Professionals" kill AT LEAST (emphasis theirs) 98,000 Americans every year.

What's your point?

Could I have your source?

I just had to point out the follwoing issues that were brought up in this discussion of the proposed VB smoking ban:

-Artery-clogging food
-SUV exhaust
-Driving through intersections
-Screaming children
-Health insurance
-Ireland
-Discrimination based on race
-Deaths due to medical mistakes

I'm not sure how any of this contributes to the discussion, but it sure is entertaining!

jmo

Think really hard about what you are so obsessed about. What habits do you have that are truly aggravating to others? You think you have none...well, you are so wrong..I know for a fact that each and every one of us have faults and addictions we would rather not publicize and if you feel you do not, then you must be dead.

I am a non smoker and I choose not smoke but I also know I have faults (addictions) that many others have in a very different way. I believe that the only perfect one is not here, but watches over us. To single out one group to make yourself feel better about yourself, is soo wrong.

There will come a day when you will be next in line to be tarred and feathered with the same brush you are weilding so you might want to reconsider just what you are fighting for because it sure isn't for health otherwise we would have done away with chimneys and such a long time ago!

Maybe medical professionals do kill that many but tell us the number of people they help and lives they have saved... Then tell us the number of people helped and lives saves from cigarette smoke... hmmmmmmm? Now you look silly just like the idiots with cigarettes hanging from there filthy mouths. Let the people vote!!!!

Now that is the funniest line I have read yet. So...Because Virginia Beach has a greater population they will force places like Danville or Farmville to comply with something they might not want. Now that is perhaps the most arrogant and self-centered idea that has been thrust into the political fray. Before you ask for a state-wide ban, how about looking beyond your precious noses to see just who will be affected by this encroachment of liberty. And for the person who said that businesses are not private…you are absolutely wrong. They are not supplemented by local, state, or federal tax payer funds. Therefore, they are absolutely private. You need to do your homework before you spew your foolishness. I am a non-smoker, but I can’t stand those self-absorbed, self-righteous, holier-than-thou prophets of smoking abolition. A Private business still must comply with Constitutional law in regards to discrimination. Non-Smoking/Smoking is NOT covered as a constitutionally protected right. Get over it and get over yourselves.

Cricket - according to the AMA (American Medical Association) - mistakes made by "Medical Professionals" kill AT LEAST (emphasis theirs) 98,000 Americans every year.

What's your point?

Democracy... while it lasts is more bloody than either aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.
John Adams

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
James Madison

A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
Thomas Jefferson

Nebraska join the no smokers yesterday! Wisconsin is working on it.

Quote:
"Twenty-two states have already passed statewide smoking bans, in part because they make sense both from a public health perspective and a business standpoint. It is time to save lives and pass a strong statewide smoking ban that takes effect as soon as possible.

Opponents of the statewide smoking ban have characterized this legislation as another battle between a small minority of Madison liberals and upstanding legislators fighting for individual rights for the majority of Wisconsin residents. However, in a recent statewide poll, 64 percent of respondents supported a smoke-free law for all workplaces, including restaurants and bars.

Opponents also neglect to mention that 22 states representing nearly half of the United States population have passed statewide smoking bans.

There is irrefutable evidence regarding the deleterious public health effects of second-hand smoking. According to the American Lung Association website, each year secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 46,000 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States."

My research says there is a difference between being a private place of business that allows the public in (such as a bar) and a public place like a park. We as private business owners reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason as long as it does not violate constitutional law. For that to apply we would have to refuse service based on age, gender, race, creed, or sexual orientation. Your so called right not to be bothered by smoke in MY bar is in fact not covered by the United States constitution. So until it is you can take you complaints, write them down, roll them up, and smoke them. Oh wait...you don't do that.

What about "No Shoes No Shirt - No Service" This is a sign used by many businesses that do not allow people service without proper attire. I am sure many people probably likes to walk around the beach area during the summer time with no shoes or shirts on. So, if that person wants to enter that establishment they comply with the sign by simply putting on a shirt or a pair of shoes. If they do not then they go somewhere else that will accomodate them. If a non-smoker sees a sign on a restaurant entrance that states "This is a smoking establishment" then at that moment the consumer has the option of going in and accepting the atmosphere or simply moving on and finding another location. It really is that simple.

For those of you insisting "Restaurants are PRIVATE places.... blah blah blah..." That is patently a load of... shall we just say fertilizer? In a PRIVATE place, you have the right to discriminate. In a restaurant you do NOT. That FACT alone sets ALL restaurants, bars, and pretty much all other so called PRIVATE businesses directly into the NOT PRIVATE list of places. Don't believe me? Do some homework. Better yet! Open a business with a big honkin sign out front saying "We do not serve (insert race of choice here)." See how long it is before you get sued into oblivion.

I agree....Pilot should do another poll and I'm sure the results will be overwhelmingly in agreement with a smoking ban. I know a lot of people who have given up smoking over the last 5 years. 27 states have smoking bans. I know Ireland has been smoke free for the last 5 yrs. It's coming Virginia...and I can't wait!

By then all the smokers will be long dead because their health insurance will decide smokers make a conscious choice to poison themselves and they will no longer cover their care because it will be declared a form of long term suicide. So the smoker's families will have to go broke paying for health treatements and they will sue the corporations into non smoking markets. There may even eventually be "Cig Police" who will vaporize smokers for lighting up as it will be a federal "insta-death" offense!

This is for the Pilot Staff:

I would be very interested in taking another poll to see where everyone stands on this issue. I am reading everyone's comments and would really like find out the percentages of who is for or against this smoking topic.

"and as per my last physical and chest xray my lungs are fine."

You may be lucky if the damage shows in your lungs. Often, it shows itself in the form of other cancer growth. You may have a backache one day and find out you have cancer as a result of cigarette smoke. Lung cancer is only one way people who smoke or are around it's by product that results in death or illness. The chemicals emitted by the cigarettes can be more damaging than the carcinogen. Call an internal medice doc and ask them how many people they have seen die. Don't worry about dying though, it's the treatment that really hurts. Just so you know.

Amy, You pretty much summed up the argument: When you smoked, you smoked in restaurants because it was LEGAL...hence, the necessity to legally ban it! You further state you didn't smoke if children were around. How very admirable of you! What about the adults and teens and the workers? Are their lungs not worthy of your consideration? Since you obviously recognized the adverse health effects, by protecting the children from your cancer causing vile habit, how can you or any other smoker, or anyone else (so called Libertarians)possibly take the stance that this law in not necessary? It is crucial because smokers, like you were, don't give a rats bum who they are hurting as long as they get their fix. As I have said before, smokers are so pitiful with their slobbering all over their filthy cancer stick that I am more moved to pity than anger. I read a shirt once that said, Smokers, whether you know it or not, the rest of us hate you", not very nice but probably quite true. Please smokers, get help to quit. There are many resources available.

First it's smoking, next, hopefully, it will be children-I would LOVE to see Child-Free resturants because I have the right to be able to dine in a resturant without someone's obnoxious child/children acting like the undisiplined animals they are. Sorry parents, you have NO RIGHT to subject other people to the stressful effects that your loud brats cause other patrons!

I am sick of all this talk about freedom of choice. Freedom of choice is limited everyday. I am not allowed to drive any speed I want on the hi-way, I have to wear a seatbelt, I cant barbaque on the balcony of an apartment, I cant go through an intersection anytime I want to. The government has a right to make rules to protect the health of the populace Smoking is a health issue, just a speedong, seatbelts, vacinations, motorcycle helmits. sanitation rules for restaruants etc. Imagine what it would be like if there were no sanitation requirements for food service.

There is another side to this, what ever happened to local rule. Rep Davis, and the rest of the republicans, decided that local governments dont have the right to decide the issue. This is big government government telling people what they can and can't do. I guess the new republican motto is "big government is what the lobbyist money says it is."

I don't smoke and I drink very little. What's next that they are going to want the eateries to do for the pampered. If a restaurant says they allow smoking, that is their right, just as it is their right not to allow smoking. It is likewise the customers right to eat at their restaurant or not to eat there. It is also the right of the employee to work or not to work in a restaurant that allows smoking. What's next?
Are people not going to be allowed to smoke in their homes are cars!!!
As I said, I don't smoke and if I don't want to go to a restaurant or bar that allows smoking, then I won't go there. I have lived 69 years around those who smoke, after serving 24 years in the military you are around smokers, and as per my last physical and chest xray my lungs are fine.

Leave it to vb council to waste time on a dead issue. Probably because the business and developer community supported it.

georges, you ask where the 75% figure came from? It came from an orifice of Kirks nether regions on his anatomy.

Folks, I used to live in the Socialist Republic of California. They have succeeded in becoming one of the most oppressive and enslaving state in our union. I escaped one oppressive government, I really don't want to make an exodus from another one.

I fear our government more than I fear a terrorist attack. Our Constitution was designed to prevent the people from being fearful of the power of the government. By its design, the government is supposed to fear the power of the people.

Please be careful of what you wish for. Do not wish government control and regulation. It will only shackle you under oppression.

Who knows where that figure comes from. What I would guess is that next week that figure will somehow climb to 80%. As for the people who say the right to smoke ends at the tip of their nose, get over yourselves. You have no right to dictate how others run their own business. Nobody forces you to go out to eat, or where you go out to eat. This country, as well as this commonwealth, was not founded for your personal satisfaction.

75% wants smoking ban. Just where does that figure come from?

Health issue? I think not, for then you would have to ban all school buses, HRT buses, cars, factories, grass burning in open, fireplaces, grills and anything else that spews noxious gases and smoke.

Now, lets start screaming about banning these things and see how well you like others making these decisions for yourself..want to sit by a nice cozy fireplace...nope..they are banned due to noxious carbon monoxide creeping into the room without you "seeing" it..cause this stinks too and the smoke from the chimney is all over your house when your neighbor fires it up...

And everyone knows when someone is burning the leaves..the stink is miles long and the air is black with soot and red from embers flying around..

I mean, lets get real here. If it really was about health issues...anything that spewed any kind of toxic smoke would have to be banned..

To zonedogg,

Nicely done! You cut right to the heart of the issue - it is, and always has been, about free choice and imposition of government on the masses.

If you don't like cigarette smoke in a particular establishment folks, go somewhere else! Better yet, go home! Liberty is what it's all about, and free market economics will determine if the smoking establishments will succeed as it will determine the same fate for the non-smoking establishments. Free choice, free choice, free choice...

On a side note, smokers may not like the elevated exhaust from non-smokers' SUVs, but we surely don't hear then whining about restricting you from driving them, do we? Of course not, but maybe they should and waste more legislative time. Would that be a good idea? Hmmm

This issue is dead anyway, despite any move by the Kangaroo Council.