Virginia considers leaving federal education act behind

I think the parents and school ADMINISTRATION should take a role in trying to discipline the students and/or child. How would you like to be a teacher (if you are not already) and have a student cuss you out in front of 42 other students and you as a teacher call an assistant principal to your class to remove the student so you can continue doing what they hired you to do which was to teach, and then for that same assistant principle send that same student back to class 10 minutes later after the students had already started a test and now you have to explain the directions to the test to someone that just cussed you out. I would like to see this go over in the REAL work place....try going to your BOSS and cuss them out and see how far that will get you, or go up to your boss and say "I don't feel like working today" and see what happens then. Isn't high school suppose to prepare the student for the "real world"?!?! Call me crazy but I can bet that if I acted like my students towards my boss that I would be at the unemployment office; not suspended for 2 days or ISS for 3 days..OUT OF A JOB!!!!!!! Schools would be a heck of a lot better if people are that paid to RUN the schoo

I as a parent do not particulary care for the SOLs or whatever the other states call the testing because teachers teach to the test. I feel like there are so many things not being taught because of what others have deemed necessary. But, with that being said there is definitely a situation with the educational system and I do believe there needs to be some type of intervention. I'm just not sure how much or who should be held accountable (should it be the schools or the parents) because let's face it education starts at home before kids even enter school. I think it's a crying shame that our police departments have to dummy down or lower the standards for simple math, and reading tests and since people are going to constantly blame others for their problems then maybe they should be addressed by the government since they are the ones to come in and sue (Department of Justice) whenever there is a "wrong" committed?!...

I agree with your assessment that NCLB is a failure and is very restrictive with respect to what teachers can do. However, I disagree with the notion that home schooling will create on a bunch of illiterate imbeciles. My contact with home schooled children over the past 12 years has been very positive. In fact, most that I have met do very well during and after college. What I have noticed as a deficiency of home schooled children are their social skills. They have a difficult time enacting with their peers. As for the idea that vouchers will degrade public schools and the education of the students is a joke. We already have people (who are products of public education) who can’t pass the VBPD police (6th grade) math and English entrance exam. In fact, these individuals sued VBPD and some federal judge ruled that the test discriminate against blacks. There is nothing wrong with school vouchers, especially if it forces public education into a competitive state. Right now public schools are complacent that’s why programs like NCLB have taken hold. Good stiff competition can only help and in the long run it will help everyone.

I stand corrected....50 may actually be the subgroup size in VA. I'm sure the fine reporters at the Virginian-Pilot can look that information up. Why does it matter? Read this:

http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=256971

"The higher a minimum subgroup size, the more minority and disabled students are excluded. More than half the states set subgroup cutoffs lower than 40 so they can include higher percentages of those scores, while 11 states chose to share Alabama’s strategy of counting scores of minority and disabled students only in schools with 40 or more such students. Seven states set even higher cutoffs."

NCLB restricts teachers from doing what they themselves are educated to do. Might as well just insist everyone homeschool so that our country can become even less competitive. Let Virginia create our own standard and lead the nation in education. As far as Vouchers...no. Money shouldn't be diverted from Public Schools. You All Benefit from the money spent in schools in your community. Your very life may depend on it. How would you like a Police Officer who couldn't read the law? How Would you like a Paramedic who couldn't comprehend Biology, Anatomy, or Pharmacology and who couldn't quickly do the math trying to figure out appropriate drug dosages or rates of administration when it's your child's life in the balance? Food for thought.

I like the idea of accountability standards but NCLB isn’t the answer. Teachers teach the test, and administrators are ONLY concerned about test scores; thereby shifting educational responsibility from the parent to the teacher. The major byproduct of NCLB is keeping classrooms full of disruptive, defiant and disrespectful students (that is part of AYP). However, the biggest downfall of NCLB is the standardized comprehensive test that is designed to check rudimentary knowledge which in my opinion is a waste of time.

If our political leaders really want to upgrade Virginia’s educational system the first thing that needs to be done is to start training students in the elementary grades to learn. This will provide them with the preliminary tools necessary for higher level learning. Second, lower the dropout age (back to 16 years old), if a high school aged kid doesn’t want to be in school nothing you can do will convince them otherwise. Maybe, at a later date they’ll have a different mindset. Third, offer alternative educational routs, such as trade schools, military-pre programs or accelerated programs for students who want to graduate early.

For those of you who think teachers are upset by this because we are lazy - PLEASE come spend a week in my classroom (or pretty much any classroom in Hampton Roads) and see for yourself just how lazy we are. If you really want to make a difference take a more active part in your child's education; make sure they complete homework assignments every night (it affects their SOL scores), be sure your children are held accountable for their behavior (how well could you learn if the teacher constantly had to stop class because of students who do not know to or do not care about acting like responsible citizens), and if your child's teacher calls you or sends home correspondence - RESPOND, it is your responsibility as a parent. Parents should parent, schools should educate. You can not blame everything on the school.

NCLB is ridiculous. As a teacher we spend all year teaching how to TAKE A MULTIPLE CHOICE TEST! Which part of that scares you the most? Instead of teaching our students problem solving skills and creative thinking processes we are forced to teach them the best way to take a multiple choice test, it's a bit like watching a game show - "get rid of the answer you know is wrong, 50/50, ect..). There is very little learning going on in school these days, it's all about making sure everyone passes their benchmarks and the SOL. Gifted students and special needs students(especially at the elementary and middle school levels) suffer the most because they are all considered equal in the eyes of NCLB, they are all put into the same classroom and expected to make the same score on the same test. For those of you who think teachers are upset by this because we are lazy - PLEASE come spend a week in my classroom (or pretty much any classroom in Hampton Roads) and see for yourself just how lazy we are. If you really want to make a difference take a more active part in your child's education; make sure they complete homework assignments every night (it affects their SOL scores), be sure yo

Let me tell you.. Its all about achievement gaps and making it all look good on paper. Having an insight to a local school system, teachers are only tracking the achievement (or lack there of)of "african american males". Gotta make it look good on paper. Not that other ethnic, gender or socioeconomic groups need attention, but this system only focuses on one. Ohhhhh..and how about this...You go to work and do absolutely "nothing" and you will get paid at the least, 50% of your salary...."for doing nothing." That is the brainstorm of some "expert". The idea is not to assign a "zero" if a student doesn't turn in work, instead, the miminum grade they get is a 50%. The idea is that whether you get a 0 or 50, its still an E, BUT a 50 is easier to recover from than a 0. What a crock of bull!!! When I was in school, you didn't do your work, you got a zero and had to bust butt to bring it up. The school systems are producing "lazy dumb" students. When you have an 18 year old in 9th grade, they get "socially" advanced. Teachers should be left alone to do their job, if the parents did theirs, the system would work.

I agree with jackies44743... NCLB forces ALL children, regardless of their ability level to be mainstreamed in the regular classroom, in my opinion. This is simply not the least restrictive environment or most appropriate environment for all children. Some students do not have a disability, but have borderline abilities and/or are slow learners. These students, because they do not have a documented disability, are not allowed to participate in alternate assessments, but they are not able to pass the "regular" standardized tests. They are the true children being left behind. There is not alternate assessment for them. As a teacher in Virginia Beach, I see all that is being done, all the programs that are offered, and all the money that is being spent to try to reach all students. There is only so much we can do... Teachers work extremely hard.

I am a teacher in one of Hampton Roads area public schools. NCLB is probably the main reason I have a 9th grade student who is on a reading level lower than kidergarden. Can you please tell me how this student got into the 9th grade without being able to read ANYTHING and is in a MAINSTREAM class?!?! I do understand that this child will never go to college and that is okay...there are plenty of people that make a life for themselves without going to college. What are we teaching them if they can simply not read or do simple math?!?! I will write whoever or vote for whoever gets rid of this stupid law until NCLB is gone. I am a graduate from the same city school divison where I now teach and I came out the year before SOL testing and I did fine in college. We need to spend more time teaching students to take responsibility for themselves and follow directions more than we need to worry about SOL testing.

Oh anf there's George again with his usual I hate Bush comment. Wasnt this a Kennedy sponsor billed?

I believe that within the Chesapeake School system, that the educators are teaching to the SOL and not allowing the child to think 'outside the box' it shelters one's creativity. I think the system will be better without the NCLB act. This way the educators can teach the curriculum and not the test.

Poco! I know Princess, personally. Don't fault someone for what was given to them at birth, particularly a name!

As for "No Child Left Behind", the Kindergartners in Chesapeake are being left behind because they do not have all day Kindergarten for every student in that city. Some schools have it, others are not funded for it. I find it ludicrous and unjust in a time when the Governor wants Pre-K classes offered to all children. Imagine a child going to a Pre-K and then to a half-day situation the following year! Is every child not worthy of the same amount of education?

Shouldn't every Kindergartner be on the same playing field when it comes to getting a full-day of important skills? I think it's time parents hold school systems accountable for not giving their child the same opportunities as other children in the city. Litigation sounds like a good way to start!

Chesapeake Public Schools is one of the few school systems in the state that doesn't offer all-day Kindergarten. They hide behind the General Assembly who has an archaic ruling that children don't have to be in school until they are 6 years-old.

Having taught special education to severely disabled students in VA public schools, I can say, without a doubt, that NCLB has major fundamental flaws. There are some great PR people in Bush's administration because leaving "no child behind" is a wonderful idea. That's the way it should be...right? Unfortunately NCLB is far from that...if your child is not an average student, it WILL leave you behind. Gifted students and students with special needs are not receiving the services they should. Why should I be required to teach students who can not feed themselves and accomplish basic self-care needs (bathroom, hand-washing, toothbrushing, etc) by themselves the scientific method and algebra. Shouldn't we make sure they have skills that they need to survive in the world? Isn't that what we want for all students, to make sure that they can leave school and SURVIVE? Instead, I am supposed to take children who can't adequately communicate and teach them different forms of literature and the history of VA when they don't know that they live in VA and can't count past 3 or recognize the letters in their own name?

When I first heard of this idea, I was apalled. Why are these children being passed without LEARNING?

Some idiot in top government decided to make it easier for the ones that don't want to learn to create an environment for the ones that did want to learn very unpleasant.

No wonder many of the top perfoming students eventually quit, as I did, because this idea went beyond idiocy. I went to learn at a faster pace in college and beyond after leaving behind all the clowns and trouble makers they kept passing along with me even though they didn't learn a thing and didn't have a clue about what was taught......

This was a very bad idea!

Teacher Union wins, student loose. Where's my voucer?

Between SOL's and the fact that Virginia is on a 7 point grading system, versus a 10 point system used in all other states, VA students are at a disadvantage. Teachers are forced to teach the standard curriculum as well as the SOL's and the two are not in sync with each other, and this only causes confusion and distraction from the standard curriculum. SOL scores do not get you into college, your standard grades do. Also, competing with other states using a 10 point system makes for an unlevel playing field. Don't bash the teachers, in addition to dealing with children who's parents do not seem to want to raise them at home, they are forced to try to balance a system that cannot be balanced.

to cover up dismal failures among the subgroups. NCLB is a bitter (and expensive) medicine that brings those failures up into the sunshine for all to see. Education administrators and unions despise NCLB because it reveals these problem areas and forces them to deal with them. Of course, they find every excuse they can conjure up and they "shoot the messenger" (NCLB) for revealing the ugly truth. As for George Bush being responsible (as usual), wasn't Senator Ted Kennedy a major supporter of NCLB?

First, this program is an utopian ideal at best. It is a total failure at worst. The government dangles the carrot ($$$) over the state head. The state, always hungry for more cash flow, agrees to unobtainable goals. Political agendas aside, this program never worked. The theory often fails for those children not properly provided for at home. Even in the ideal setting some kids are not going to aspire to more than being a low paid laborer. Others will become the leaders of their future. In my day, they stuck the non-performers and advanced students together. The hope was the non-acheivers would be inspired and lifted by the acheivers. It never happened. It pulled the better students down as they waited for the slow learners to catch up. Today, my child is in all advanced classes with like students. The learning progression is much stronger and unimpeded. This ability and desire to learn is a reflection of both strong parenting and natural talent, not NCLB or SOL. The biggest hurdle is trying to undo the damage inflicted by the liberal front. The brainwashing is substantial.

"NCLB holds the small groups to the same benchmarks as the total population so deficiencies in smaller samples aren’t masked by a school’s overall success."

Ah, yes, Mr. Quinn, but why didn't you tell us more about Va and subgroups? Specifically, VA has one of the largest subgroup sizes in the US....40 students to be included in a subgroup before the school is accountable. The school system still has to be accountable for all students, but an individual school not so if the subgroup size is below 40 students. A lot of schools are not being held accountable.

How about an article about how schools are dodging accountability in VA because of the huge subgroup size? (If you don't believe me, check out the subgroup sizes for other states.)

"Public education" is passe ,it will die a slow agonizing death like a patient on life support until the plug is pulled. Government entitys rarely/never perform services as well as the private sector. I'll be gone before public education is but it's demise is inevitable. RIP

tyr_shadowblade on Mon, 02/25/2008 at 4:52 am. <:

I know a lot of teachers in several states, and they all agree that NCLB was implimented by naive and arrogant political appointees who -- regardless of a PhD in Education, had never actually worked as public school teachers and were CLUELESS about how a classroom needs to be run. Some have even gone so far as to state that it was deliberately designed to fail, artificially creating stress and crisis to serve some nefarious hidden agenda. Mandating that Special Ed students (all "mainstreamed" into regular classrooms now) be included in the testing is one indication of this, as are the ridiculous piles of bureacratic paperwork that EVERY teacher must now WASTE hours of time on EVERY DAY (SOLs, lesson plans, student evaluations, etc). Because of the BOGUS threat of "lazy teachers", ALL teachers are penalized, overwhelmed, and demoralized . . . and the students suffer. Tell Bush he can keep those funds!

MY COMMENT:

really?....lesson plans and student evaluations are a waste of teacher's time? Exactly what is a good use of their time then?

I completely agree with what you said and further that was those were the very reasons I quit teaching and went back to corporate work. I was also a Special Ed teacher and the kids did suffer because of the NCLB mandate. Its sad.

Johnbo - NEA has nothing to do with it. NCLB and the VA SOL's is why kids don't know anything. Teachers are forced to teach the test and cannot deviate from the "planned" lesson plans. It leaves no room for creativity, no room for different learning styles and no room for children that are slower to catch up.

If the great teachers union had not made it to where bad teachers couldn't be fired and regulated things like they were suppost to we would not be here. Some where along the line the teachers union forgot this is supposed to be just aout teaching the students and not primarly about benefits for their union. Stop trying to snow the public and get back to the teaching the basics. Why is it that 1/2 of the kids graduating today can't do long division and basic math skills with out using a caculator?

NCLB and the SOL's it generated have taken the focus off of learning and put it solely on passing the SOL's so schools will be accredited and won't lose money. What was wrong with A, B, C, D and F's? Just another political solution to fix something that wasn't broken in the first place. Do you feel good Mr Bush? You accomplished nothing and screwed up something that was working just fine. You will never make rocket scientists out of every single kid no matter how many SOL's they have to pass. Another issue that needs to be addressed is that the teachers seem to be afraid to say anything or do anything regarding the kids behavior and apparently let them pretty much do what they want. You apparently can't grab a kid by the shirt anymore and make them sit down, you can't raise your voice at them when they aren't doing what they should be doing. You can't even pat them on the back or give them a hug. And you sure can't swat them on the tail end when they need it. We have lost our way when it comes to educating and disciplining children and I cringe when I concider the generation coming behind me taking the reigns of this country.

This was a George Bush, "Change", that never did work, was not fully funded, and a mistake from the get go. Be very careful with all these, "changes" currently debated.

Like so many things in Washington, NCLB was a good idea on paper but a complete failure in real world workings. Teaching to the test as well as other problems are not only damaging to teachers and their ability to teach, but damaging to our students. As a parent who has come head on with NCLB guidelines, I will be THRILLED to see this go! Special Education students suffer, children with chronic or undiagnosed illnesses suffer, and teachers certainly suffer. Let the teachers take back control of their classrooms and the parents take back control of their children! I FULLY support those hoping to eliminate NCLB in the state. I hope that Virginia can set the trend for something so many other states would like to do but don't yet have the support or guts to do! If enough states start pulling out of this program, it will soon be an easily forgotten part of the past. Let Virginia lead that charge! This is the best news I've read in months.

Those of us who know what it says are starting to sound like a broken record. But, unless we can educate millions if citizens as to what our Founding Fathers actually wrote, and then get the the collective guts to demand that it be adhered to, we're doomed to live in a world where our potential will never be reached. The US Constitution makes NO provision for the US government to be involved in education. Individual states, under the rules of thier own constitutions,can decide and fund these issues if they coose to. ANYTIME a state opens thier door for carrot on a stick Federal money for ANYTHING, be it education, law enforcement, infrastructure, etc, it's ALWAYS accompanied by a big foot that won't allow the door to close again. We are collectively very far IN PRINCIPAL from the tree the Founding Fathers planted. So far, in fact, we can't reach much of the fruit. Before long, if we keep this up, we won't deserve to eat any of it.

how teachers hate accountability. For so many years they could cruise along, churning out illiterates and everything was fine. Now that there are definitive, quantifiable standards of what kids are learning, the teachers are screaming like banshees. NCLB and Va SOL's are the best things to happen to education in a long time.