Area lawmakers support sales tax increase for roads

Mr. Barrett, I assure you sir that I am not ignorant. What is preposterous is guys like you and those of you in the real estate development business try to push this same BS that these projects will relieve gridlock. It makes no difference to me whether the mayors of the political jurisdictions, the MPO, the HRPDC, the Attorney General, the Governor, or The Pope signed off on these projects. It is a bold face LIE that these six transportation projects at a cost of $4B or more dollars will relieve the traffic gridlock in Tidewater that the folks here in Virginia Beach expect it to relieve. This is how it is being sold. The same bottlenecks and choke points will STILL be there after these projects are built. These six projects were designed to relieve congestion for the ports with the benefits going to business. Any relief at all that these projects would provide would be minimal at the very least. Apparently it gets your goat when some of us out here pay attention to what is going on, rather than roll over and play dead. Now that WOULD justify being ignorant.

Sorry for the misinformation in my last post when I said the projects have escalated by $1,000,000,000 since 2002. None other than Delegate John Cosgrove from Chesapeake, an anti tax delegate if I have ever seen one, was quoted in the Daily Press as having said the cost of the projects have doubled in the last three years. That is absolutely incredible; thanks John Moss, thanks Robert Dean, and all your craxed followers like Reid Greenmun, and your advocates like Delegate Johnny Joannou and Tom Gear. When Robert Dean appeared on the Kathy Lewis show this week and bragged about the TV ad he and others supported that cost only $36,000, in which Gear and Joannou appeared, the actual cost of the ad is currently $4,500,000,000; that is the increase in cost of the necessary projects since 2002. Folks, you can have a functional transportation system, or you can save the money. Your choice. You can't have both. Let's send the bill to Moss, Dean, Greenmun, Joannou, and Gear. They should pay.

"No one wants the proposed six projects." How preposterous. Maybe you don't, but I can assure you that every one of the projects has a major constitutiency. And the Mayors of every political jurisdiction in this region signed off on this package of projects as early as 2000. So did the HRPDC/MPO, the General Assembly, the Governor, and the FHA which must approve the projects for use of federal money. To suggest that no one wants these projects is to reveal the depth of ignorance about both the needs of this region and the general level of support for improvements in transportation infrastructure. And frankly, the extra billion in cost that has now escalated since 2002 is on posters like you, Reid, Robert Dean, and John Moss and on politicians like Delegate Joannou and Gear. In the end, those who have acted irresponsibility will have cost us more than a billion dollars; they will have cost us time with our families, productivity, and the loss of opportunity that comes when you are sitting in traffic at choke points.

The families displacement is just a factor. Just like the Route 460 expansion. No one wants the six proposed projects. They want real traffic gridlock choke point relief. The MPO projects do nothing for those of us who count.

To quote a previous post "I guess this will present our region with a choice; preserve the balanced approach with the six projects plus a new one."

My thought to that is if you remove the "Third Crossing" from the list, there will be six viable projects that may receive public support. And the sales tax increase would support all six projects.

If memory serves, the lack of support for the third crossing is why the referendum failed in 2002. Some people just won't listen, I'll try to be as clear as possible. NO NEW THIRD CROSSING. It serves no one except Norfolk International Terminal (VPA). It doesn't provide any relief to those who have to pay for it.

Chesapeake really isn't that bad; it isn't bumper to bumper like i-264 gets at times. There shouldn't be a need to even build the Southeastern Parkway, but eventually they'll get around to it, and people will have to start packing up and moving. Right now the money to build it is the obstacle, and given current trends, they'd be foolish not to build it at least as wide as 264 is in some parts or what they're doing with 64 already, because they'd just be wasting their time. enough with the roads though, what about putting more buses on the road more frequently and creating some real alternatives to driving around, since the train thing won't pay off anytime soon ...

I'm starting to wonder if the Southeastern Parkway will ever be built. That's the only real monstrous project I've seen which would obviously displace hundreds of families and a few businesses and cause a real disruption; both physically and psychologically, to the quality of life in Chesapeake. Stuff like another tunnel I figured they would eventually do because of the nightmare both tunnels can be at times. But at the same time, they are expanding i-64, and if that doesn't solve things (I mean like what 20 lanes almost??) that means there are serious, serious problems. Far as a Midtown tunnel I usually avoid it, but from what I've heard that is an inevitability. Problem is, you have like 2 main roads, i-264 and i-64, the rest (664, 464, etc.) should see capacity but never do because of the limited access they have to the rest of the region.

Well, if the displacement of families and businesses is your main criteria, then the proposed expansion of the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel clearly will not meet your test. The widening necessary for two more tubes will take a good part of W. Ocean view along the ROW. The Norfolk delegates have already said that is a non starter for them. The best compromise may be one more tube and a lane widening in both directions which can fit mostly within the existing ROW. Combined with the displacement of traffic to the third crossing, this will increase the ability of the HRBT to handle growth in the future. The sacrifice necessary for the Peninsula folks is that it must be a toll road for the financing to work out and for traffic to actually be distributed to the other roadways. I guess this will present our region with a choice; preserve the balanced approach with the six projects plus a new one, in return for a 1% sales tax and a 2% gas tax (like NOVA) and tolls on all the tunnel crossings. That approach certainly could work.

I realize gas prices are at all time highs, but the only way to get the money to improve roads is through "user taxes". I hate to say it, but Tax the gas and oil people use to drive on the roads. Taxing all items means that everyone will basically pay three times the sales tax. Wholesalers, retailers and consumers will all pay the tax meaning that little 1% increase will mean 3% by the time it hits the consumer. Everything will become more expensive (see the other Pilot Article saying the cost of living in Hampton Roads is already 6.8% higher than the national average). People who are trying to conserve and reduce gas usage/wear and tear on the roads will be penalized for the people who fail to conserve.

How about they just reinstate the road tolls like they had before, that way only the people who travel on said roads pay for the repairs.

Open up the wetlands to development? What about the 1972 Virginia Wetlands act. How can they do that? Isn't it protected?

Yep, those wetlands in VB will be opened for development because of the Southeastern Parkway. Just like the TriCities Property was allowed to develop. Sure, after 5 years (FIVE YEARS!) the developer/owner's application for development was turned down, despite an offer to mitigate the wetlands impact elsewhere, in accordance with accepted practice. Yep, all those wetlands will be paved over by the evil developers.

With luck, most of them will be drained before pavement is applied!

opens up VB greenbelt for development also.

BTW, in reference to The Southeastern Expressway it displace 157 families, 14 businesses, five churches and three cemeteries. Then the potential exists for commercial developers to open the wetlands up to more housing, strip malls, which will create the need for more development, housing, shopping centers, and then more gridlock. Such a deal!

There is NO relief from these six projects. Just the opportunity for the cheerleaders here to get rich laying new projects around these new roads. Corporate welfare!

I said I didn't remember seeing these projects being published for public comment prior to 2002. I didn't say they didn't exist. I may not be the brightest bulb in the box, but I sure as hell am not clueless. The answers to your questions is an emphatic NO! These road projects were sold to the public to relieve gridlock. Where is the gridlock relief for the average peon that lives and works here TD? The SE Parkway? Come on TD. I work in Chesapeake and leave there in the afternoon. The only slow down is construction at Battlefield. Bogus argument. The third crossing from the Monitor Merrimac forks at I 564. All that does is create another bottle neck for the folks that use 564 to get to and from the base. Guess what? The trucks coming from NIT will use those and now base traffic has to follow a convoy of trucks to and from the base. Again, where is the relief TD?

Now Mike, you just posted a whooper! You know darn well the construction schedule that was proposed by the HRDPC/MPO back in 2002 took over 20 years before the 6 projects would be available for our use. You also know the time required to complete an EIS and that only the Port's 3rd Crossing has a valid EIS in November 2002. Mike, I know that you know better.

As Don Tabor points out, just because the business lobby hatched a plan for business reasons and hijacked our transportation improvements is no reason that "We, The People" should be forced to pay for highways that don't help reduce the traffic congestion that we locals need relief from.

To the poster that tried to claim that the congestion at the HRBT would have any meaningful relief becuase of the 3rd Crossing - the HRPDC estimates reveal that is incorrect. HB 3202 remains a mess. The "6 projects" are the wrong roads; they don't really reduce exisitng traffic congestion nor improve the quality of our air.

My point was that these six projects that were voted down by the majority in 2002 and were added by the GA and for the GA to now say the MPO wanted these all along is false. And, I was there for the debate. I'm just a plain old voter and didn't get much of a voice over those that pay for SEN Stolles $26,000 hunting trip.

Here, again, I state..there are other avenues to follow to raise the money for roads, not just raising the taxes infinitely and calling every tax a different name..it is still a TAX we must pay out of our pockets regardless of whether it is used for the sole project it was intended for..which none of the taxes are being used for except lining our politicians pockets and their wives retirements and so on..

I would agree on having licensed and taxed internet gambling passed...the billions our country would get from these proceeds would be huge and would get us out of the hole more quickly than one could imagine..Gambling is here to stay...just as drinking , smoking, sex and whatever one has an addiction for....why not legalize it and collect from it since it is happening anyway even with it being illegal...under the UIGEA law passed in 2006 against it...one of tht stupidest laws I have ever seen..

and all of these projects have been discussed by the public, all local governments, the MPO, the HRPDC, and any other local/regional organization that has had any interest in transportation long before HB3202 was dreamed up. The sales tax increase that was the subject of the referendum in 2002 was supposed to pay for these six projects, and I can assure you they were debated heartily by many people back then. And of course, these projects were on various drawing boards well before the referendum.

If your point was that these projects were somehow a surprise addition to local transportation plans, or that the MPO or GA somehow snuck these into the mix without public debate, you are sorely mistaken. Just because you missed all the debate over the years doesn't mean it did not take place.