Forget about a quick fix on road funding, local lawmakers say

Apparently it is difficult to justify spending so much money for projects that do so little to relieve traffic gridlock.

Oh man, it's getting deep in here! Mike Barrett dusts off his 2002 YES Campaign talking Points and tried to pretend that blowing over $4 Billion local tax dollars on a bridge tunnel for the port will magically allow soccer moms stuck in traffic to get to their kid's games - or magically reduce the commute time for someone living in Virignia Beach or Williamsburg to drive to church! ROTFL!

Of course Mike knows that the traffic congestion estimates prepared by the HRPDC revela that the business lobby's "6 projects" actually do almost nothing to help soccer moms get to their games or families drive to their local church! The MPO "plan" doesn't benefit the locals that the General Assembly and guys like Mike Barrett are targeting to have pay for the Port's highway access.

FAIRFAX, Va. - The Northern Virginia Transportation Authority has voted to begin refunding as much as $12 million collected in taxes and fees since January.

These six projects were exactly that! And you wont get a straight answer to any of your questions.

Yes they need transportation infrastructure that relieves choke points. All this does is further strain the Monitor Merrimac with with another choke point to get to I564. Good roads to get back and forth to work? YES. What roads? Which ones? The biggest employers in the area are Naval Base and the Shipyards. Where is the relief Mike? How do ANY of these projects relieve the gridlock going from Virginia Beach to either of these facilities? How will getting to work be easier? How does any of these projects relieve the gridlock going from Norfolk/Va Beach to the peninsula without driving 30 miles to the Monitor Merrimac to get across? How does MOM get to soccer practice when she is stuck in traffic at the 64/44 interchange. Why wasn't buying out the feds an option to open the HOV lanes where it could be used as regular traffic in the morning and afternoon rush hours? How about a some more relief for those little people? What happens to U.S. 460 after Zuni? Six lanes down to two? This was a back room deal that HRPDC shoved down our throats.

But lincoln had a bad day a play.

As President Lincoln was heard to say.. I see that the vote is ten to one, the one has it. He was a wise man.

When one looks at the number of posters here and it's clearly 10 to 1 against these six projects.....

Sorry about that.

Well Mr. Barret, that is true that no one "really" knows "why" the referendum on the six projects failed. One can only speculate. However, in reference to light rail, I can assure you that the twisted question that was presented to the voters of Virginia Beach in NO WAY meant it was to continue the study of light rail, but as a way for the YES Campaign and the rest of those Hampton Roads cronies to misrepresent the true meaning of voting yes. Contrary to your belief, there are some of us that understand what the words approve the development and finance it means which were part of the question, but the word STUDY was nowhere to be found.
As before, I cannot find any information where these six projects were released to the media where the public could evaluate and comment on them. All I could find was that the GA voted on them, (Feb 2002 I think)which leads me to believe that only HRPDC and the like wanted to keep it from the public until the GA voted on it.

Oh, I get it. So the little people don't need transportation infrastructure to get around in Hampton Roads. They don't work for companies that depend upon world trade. They don't need good roads to get back and forth to their job, to soccer practice, to church, to shopping, to the gym. They don't ever take a trip from one side of Hampton Roads to the other, never host a visitor from out of the area who must access Hampton Roads by going over a bridge or through a tunnel. They don't mind that a 20 minute commute has now lengthend to 45 minutes because of congestion at the choke points we have all come to know. They don't worry that if a hurricane were to bear down on us that we would all clog the HRBT in order to evacuate. They never order from the internet and expect the truck that delivers the product to be stuck in traffic. We never concern ourselves with the fact that visitors love it when they get here, but have decided never to come again because of the tunnel. You mean those little people?

As for new leadership, you're absolutely right. We need leadership both in the state legislature and local government who will take the concerns of the it's citizens with a little more zeal rather than a grain of salt, and for the financial hardships they will face for projects that benefit large unaccountable entities like HRPDA, HRCC, The Port Authority, and developers on the backs of the people that work live here. Most of us who post comments on these blogs are sick of being told that these projects contribute to the tax base with the guise of producing some sort of tax relief for the citizens who live and work here. However, government always finds more ways of spending it somewhere else. The result is there is never any tax relief at the end of this rainbow.

Well Mr. Barret, that is true that no "really" know "why" the referendum on the six projects failed. One can only speculate. However, in reference to light rail, I can assure you that the twisted question that was presented to the voters of Virginia Beach in NO WAY meant it was to continue the study of light rail, but as a way for the YES Campaign and the rest of those Hampton Roads cronies to misrepresent the true meaning of voting yes. Contrary to your belief, there are some of us that understand what the words approve the development and finance it mean which were part of the question, but the word STUDY was nowhere to be found.
As before, I cannot find any information where these six projects were released to the media where the public could evaluate and comment on them. All I could find was that the GA voted on them, (Feb 2002 I think)which leads me to believe that only HRPDC and the like wanted to keep it from the public until the GA voted on it.

The only cheerleaders for these six projects are the ones that will fill their cash registers from all these new miles of new roadways. Posters here that keep telling how great these projects will be for our area are the very same ones that will cash in with money from taxpayers.

Well, that is the very reason that we should proceed with the six approved HRTA projects. They are based upon a coordinated system that best serves the needs for this region. Think of the alternative being put forth by the House of Delegates. They want each city/county to be responsible for its own projects. So we have the prospect of roads stopping at the city/county line. Can you imagine a more ridiculous system? Perhaps a bridge tunnel would be built just half way across the harbor. Wow, that seems a bit inefficient. Or perhaps we can go back to a series of privately owned toll roads, so that the private sector can raise tolls anytime they want; no need to hold a public hearing. The failure of the House of Delegates to act on Transportation projects they approved last session, and told us on the campaign that they had solved transoportation, is one of the most irresponsible acts bordering on dereliction of duty.

We should just continue on down the same path and throw more money down the hole and end up with a non-working cluster. Isn't that pretty much the same way SPSA has been doing? One thing we do agree on mike, it is indeed time for a change in leadership. It's time to give all the current people sitting in appointed and elected seats the boot. That means BOARD members, council members, city managers and any other seat of public trust. George Washington is known to have said, "no person should monopolize a seat of public trust". Since we all know that today there are NO politician with the integrity or honor to limit themselves to two terms. So WE should INVOKE term limits. Can you imagine the corruption and complacency we will be riding ourselves of? Huge tax savings by throwing the current clowns out. Then if we see a circus, at least it will with different clowns.

I'll tell you why I voted against the referendum and don't support the HRTA. It's simply accountability. The GA, recognizing that both regions of the referendum didn't want it, ran from responsibility and accountability and tried to slough off their jobs to local governments, whick most are having a difficult time financially. The complete incompetence of the GA made people suspect they would eventually move the money for pet projects. And, as much as you like to say "all entities" supported these projects, when it came to the vote the people said NO, no matter what the supporters said. A majority of people, not councils, committees, groups, etc., said no.

Keep spinning my friend. we don't need the SE Freeway, we don't need a third crossing, and we don't need tolls, increased fees or increased taxes. We need capable people working for us that know how to operate within a budget. Not one of the 140 in Richmond are up to the job. I say arrest them all for malfeasance and be done with them

Well actually, yes, Newport News did sign off on the plan put forth by the HRPDC/MPO. In fact, all sixteen political jurisdictions in Hampton Roads did sign off on the plan. And of course, so did the General Assembly, and as a result, so did the Feds. So unless you agree to lose a decade of planning and millions of dollars in studies, environmental permit work, and pre construction engineering, then we must move ahead on the six projects. To back away now is to waste taxpayers funds, and to show that in Virginia, we are committed to shooting ourselves in the foot. And as Senator Saslaw said recently, by 2013, we will have no consruction funds left, and we will not even be able to maintain our existing roads. What has happened to our Commonwealth which used to have visionary leaders, an excellent highway system, and a bipartisan attitude to do what is best for Virginia? This is a sickening display of chaos and lack of direction. Both parties and the Governor are to blame. We need leadership.

Keith is so on the mark. Look at other regional authorities, like SPSA. Would anyone suggest that they did anything but drive the orginization into massive debt with poor leadership? They were drunk on public money and spent lavishly while no one was paying attention. The HRTA has the same look and feel.

"All the communities agreed on the six regional projects" Mr Barrett tends to use all a lot when in fact he means all that stand to profit....
Ask NN if they agree with all these six projects.

Well of course you have no way to know why people voted against the referendum. From exit interviews, it was clear some liked most of the projects but not all of them. Some wanted more public transit, some less. Some liked the projects but not the method of financing (sales tax). Some wanted a gas tax instead. Some did not want VDOT involved, some did not want regional involvement. The point is, you have no idea why each person who voted no did so. And that is the problem with multi question referenda; the result actually tells you nothing. Transportation is a responsibility of our elected representatives. The House of Delegates has ducked that responsibility for a decade. They continue to try to duck that responsibility to this day. We need new delegates. For now, the best thing they can do is at least pass the package as they did last year, and then when consensus is reached on some other mix of projects or some other source of funding, they can make a change. For now, get it done.

The GA approved the referendum you speak of in February 2002 for the six transportation projects. I couldn't find where they were made public prior to the GA vote to pass them. The referendum was rejected by the voters for the penny increase in the sales tax to approve those projects. Probably because the relief in gridlock benefited mostly the ports and business rather than the rest of us. Any decrease in gridlock for the regular commuters would be a feather in their hat. It appears to be the same BS they tried on VA Beach when there was a referendum on light rail. They said it was to continue the "study", however the question was really to approve it and pay for it.
Also the idea of a regional taxing authority was originally hatched by The Hampton Roads Partnership. They were the ones that had initially asked the GA for approval of such a scheme. Also developer Edward Garcia, who Gov. Gilmore appointed to the Commonwealth Transportation Board in January 2002 also bragged about having a regional taxing authority. In a way, The Republican House of Delegates gave the Hampton Roads Partnership and the wishes of the developers on the rest of the Hampton Roads entities what they asked

Except, that the slots should not be limited to Colonial Downs. I think the Virginia Beach Oceanfront would be the most advantageous place to install slots, & casino activity. These casinos should be designed with tourists in mind,& not the inhabitants of the area. I grew up here & remember a much different picture of the oceanfront. Let's face it. It already looks like an attempted cross between Las Vegas & Hawaii 5 0. When the light rail work reaches Newtown Road, don't stop there, keep going all the way to Atlantic. Install Casinos, bus the tourists in, so they don't make the traffic worse on I264. Then, they will leave when they run out of money, after being fleeced by odds that are close to impossible to defeat.

Unfortunately, you have taken the small minority of high profile projects that have gotten some sort of city involvement and assumed that all development is getting a government subsidy. Very few housing projects get any subsidy at all, in fact, they have to pay a host of taxes (transfer, property etc) and fees (plan reviews, utility tap ins etc) before they are allowed to start. Just because Granby Tower is getting subsidized doesn't mean other projects are.

Too bad you are reading too many headlines about the state of the real estate market. While there are some real problem areas, this area is not doing so bad, and what I see (I see lots of stats on real estate market) things are picking up. Commercial real estate never got down.

To most developers, city bureaucrats and politicians are at best a necessary evil and generally a pain in the neck. The evil cabal you see between them just ain't there.

It's the politicians that didn't listen to the people when they were approving large public subsidized project after large public subsidized project that's laughable. It's the developers that were telling the politicians that their large projects are prosperous for the are area. All the while the PEOPLE were crying out, WHAT ABOUT THE ROADS? The developers continue to this day to convince the politician that the prosperity of the area is dependant on their project. Yet there are still no viable provisions made to improve the roads to get to and from their projects. Our elected officials should leave our tax dollars out of funding for projects that only benefit the developers. It's hard to get tax revenue out of un-rented office space, un-used conference centers, un-leased apartments, un-occupied hotel rooms and un-occupied housing units. Growth is a good thing for any area when it's controlled, problems comes in when you grow too fast. Right now we have a huge surplus of housing units on the market, yet every city in the area is subsidizing more. For PROSPERITY?

Casinos could be up and running by years end. Put some slots in the Colonial Downs race track and the satellites run by the lottery commission and start spending the money. No tax increase needed and the tourist will help pay for the roads.

It is almost laughable how the boo birds on this forum dismiss the importance of transportation improvements necessary to provide for ingress and egress to Hampton Roads. It is as if they simply believe the Port of Virginia, the military, the tourism industry, and business in general are the enemies. These improvements are needed, and given the cost, they should be placed in the areas where they can be the most effective. All the communities agreed on the six regional projects, and the General Assembly clearly agreed as they established the HRTA to get them done. So now, all they need to do is adopt the same funding plan, but they need to do it, not the cities/counties or the HRTA. Speaker Howell and the House of Delegates are the roadblocks, abetted by those who would continue to deny the importance of transportation infrastructure. Those enemies of change have cost us billions of dollars in extra costs because of failure to invest when costs were low. Thanks a lot.

Back when the sales tax/transportation funding referendum was passed by the GA and then put before the voters, the PILOT ran a discussion board called Talknet, and transportation funding was a big discussion on it. I was an active participant. Sad to say (my laugh is a rueful one), many of the same people are saying the same things about our transportation situation as was said seven years ago - on both sides of the argument. Fix VDOT, protect the TTF, projects are the wrong ones, projects are the right ones, no new taxes for anything forever, yada yada yada.

Some of us said then that if the transportation referendum did not pass, it would be many years before an alternative solution was found. Others, led by Reid Greenmun, disagreed. Many years later, there is no solution. Keep talking folks.

Now is the time to contact your legislator. You know that the business lobby is in Richmond with a pocket full of dollars making thier voices heard. SEN Stolle will be looking forward to his business sponsored hunting trip this fall! We can make things right by speaking out!
No 3rd crossing without the port picking up the bill! Improve HRBT traffic flow!

"The responsibility of local government is to support growth and development and to ensure that adequate land is available for all purposes..."

and

"Elected officials routinely face the problem of an organized and vocal, yet small group of citizens that oppose particular actions because of the personal impact on their lives."

Your friendly neighborhood Chamber of Commerce. Eight disdainful pages like the above at.

http://www.proveallthings.net/hrcc/

They would just pass a constitutional amendment not allowing the GA to loot the transportation funds for pet projects.