House floats passing a quick fix for road taxes

Ever notice all of these projects that are started in the name of providing tax income in future? I am almost 40 and it never seems to happen. Just more and more money is taken for projects but taxes never go down. I am afraid Mr. Tabor has a strong point here. If the ports cannot even pay for their own infrastructure w/o our support; we really are not receiving income now are we? We are just paying to prop up business' that are not profitable enough to subsist w/o being subsidised?

Dear "confused", you ask a great question. One that is not being discussed by the manistream media. I believe the answer is that local cities will "collect" the "regional taxes" and then tranfer the "regional tax money" to the HRTA to spend. It is a scam being designed in Richmond to work around the constitution and it results in the same thing as before, just technically this scam results in taxation with representation because the local governments will be collecting the taxes. However, they will have no real choice because they will be obligated to pay back the bond debt. It is another slimey Ken Stolle/Frank Wagner ploy for the General Assembly to ignore the obvious intent of the state Constitution. The point being that we don't have an elected regional government.

The federal government is broke and is borrowing money from the likes of Communist China. Maybe they will print some more, after all it's just engraved numbers on paper. We citizens Mike, will soon be broke. The full impact of the Sub-prime Mortgage Scam to our economy hasn't been felt yet. When my foolish, republican voting, Dr. of Economics, Ivy League Professor, published, brother-in-law says that it is all over but the shouting and is using words even too foul for a Navy veteran like myself...well. There is no money for road construction, for national defense, for our health care needs, for retirement, for anything. Bread is $4.00 a loaf, gasoline is $3.15 for regular ($4.50 by December according to the experts) milk is......Inflation is destroying the value of the dollar, and considering the fact that materials such as steel for these transportation projects will be purchased from foreign sources......Mike, all bets are off, the cost of these transportation projects could easily be double or triple before they are built and improbable as it sounds, most likely be even higher.

The House of Delegates need to stand their ground.

On the one hand, he complains about congestion at the HRBT. On the other hand, he opposes The Third Crossing - and light rail.

The "solution" he has proposed as Virginia Beach Taxpayers Alliance (VBTA) Transportation Chairman is additional tubes for the HRBT...while leaving the approach roads untouched. That's at least $2.5 billion to do nothing more than move the choke points. With taxpayer advocates like the VBTA, the taxpayers don't need any enemies.

The ultimate solution is The Third Crossing with light rail through it's multimodal tubes. Instead of getting caught in traffic on an interstate, you can let the train whisk you through.

Finally, pass SB 798. Please.

i think our country began its birth b/c of taxation without representation. is that being stuck in the 19th century? you may not know where money is coming from for your roads or for anything else but you shouldn't disregaurd the constituiton of the united states of america to get what you want. you should find a decent way to do it. the one thing that seemed pretty low to me about the hampton roads transit authority was they wanted to tax car repairs. that is just wrong on so many levels and really speaks to why the person taxing you should be held accoutable......they can get out of hand.

No argument there. Back to basics, that is exactly what we need to do. The last time the gas tax was increased in Virginia was in 1986 and of course we have the lowest gas tax in the mid Atlantic region except to one state. Point is, if you want the metropolitan regions which are the engines of economic growth, that is, Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads, to continue to lead the Commonwealth to prosperity then you need to create and maintain a first class transportation network of ports, roads, railways, and airports. Frankly, we don't do this in Virginia, and the two regions which drive economic growth are stymied by a House of Delegates still living in the 19th Century. What to do? We need to elect a new House of Delegates, and especially a new Speaker of the House. Howell has been an absolute disaster, and his influence has corrupted those who aspire to lead the Commonmwealth in the future. For now, he must deliver the House to support his past decision to build new transportation infrstructure. If not, resign.

I'd like to know how much of our road funds are spent on the following: Interstate Camera System (installation, maintenance and manpower to observe), Motorist Assistance Vehicles and Manning, Hurricane Gates (future toll gates?), Foolish Embedded Reflectors, The Multitude of Signs (motorist should be using a little common sense), Constant grass cutting (vice just planting an evergreen ground cover), Guard rails instead of just planting shrubs for barriers (azaleas seem to do good and you don't have to replace them or cut the weeds under them). Then there are other solutions that could keep traffic moving better: Instead of HOV lanes, how about converting them into express lanes so that traffic thru traffic doesn't get slowed down by cars trying to exit. Have the express lanes speed limit 10MPH faster and ticket cars that impede traffic (I see cars riding side by side everyday, sometimes going 10mph UNDER the limit). Cut the silly low power traffic info radio system off (no one uses it and it's not updated info anyway so quit funding it). Do we really need all these lights? Cars have headlights. Stop wasting the funds we have on nice to haves, let's get back to basics.

I don't know what the big deal is except that it is a political game. For goodness sake, a state road improvement should be funded with state money raised by state officials and local roads improvements such as Rosemont, Kempsville and Great Neck Rds should be funded by city council. Why should city council ask us to pay more if it isn’t going to improve traffic flow on our local streets? The state highway system is a state issue and the GA should bite the bullet and do their jobs finding a way to raise the taxes for these projects. Tolls on those using the state highways are the way to begin addressing the issue. The GA should get its act together and stop playing games. If I were a city council rep, I wouldn't raise taxes to fund a single state road. It is the state's responsibility to raise their own taxes if they want to fix the traffic problems.

How can the cities be expected to collect these taxes? I've always been taught that when a locality taxes from it's citizens those taxes are supposed to be used in that locality only. Virginia Beach real estate taxes are only used in Va. Beach. They can't be used in Norfolk or Chesapeake. So what would make these taxes any different? So taxes collected in Va. Beach couldn't be used for the third crossing.

"Does anyone know what this Barrett guy does for a living?" He's a developer who wants your tax money to drive his profits.

SB 798 Revenues for the Hampton Roads Transportation Authority.
Frank W. Wagner | all patrons ... notes | add to my profiles

Summary as introduced:
Revenues for the Hampton Roads Transportation Authority. Establishes certain state taxes and fees with the revenues therefrom to be used by the Hampton Roads Transportation Authority for transportation purposes.
Full text:
03/03/08 Senate: Presented and ordered printed

Status:
03/03/08 Senate: Unanimous consent to introduce
03/03/08 Senate: Presented and ordered printed
03/03/08 Senate: Referred to Committee on Transportation

If no one knows what this massive bill will be why are you such a cheerleader Mike? We all know that we know exactly what the bill will be. It's people like Mike that want us to believe that it will be alright, just trust your leadership to do the right thing! Well Mike, 9 Virginia Supreme Court Justices said our leadership didn't do the right thing. In a democracy we have a right to know EXACTLY what the bill will be before we have to pay for it! We also have the right to demand efficient and effective government and building a multi-billion dollar raod for the port isn't such a good idea. You can blow smoke here but bloggers are smarter than that and see right through your smoke.

No one knows at this point in time exactly how much of each of the six projects will be funded by tolls or by the taxes and fees to be imposed to support the HRTA. That is unknowable at this point, but the clear commitment is to fund as much of each project as that project can bear and be as successful as possible. Clearly, when users have other options, then pricing is important in determining usage. But each of the six are dependent upon tolls, and a tolling study will need to be done for each of them to determine the mix of tolls and usage of taxes and fees. So what else is new; that is how the projects will be planned, engineered, constructed, and maintained.

Now we all know Mike's world has different math. Seems Mike's quote of the port paying "$13.5 billion to 343,001 employees" comes out to a whooping big $37,000 per employee. WOW Mike, considering the areas mean income is $54,000 it looks like the port employees aren't doing so good. We all know that the leaches who want to over develop the area with high-rise slums and other huge high-density housing projects using our tax dollars to subsidize them with, are the root cause of the problem. Sure, it's easy for Mike to say we need to pay more taxes, fees and tolls. He's one of the developers living high on our tax dollars. Of course we the people are "backwater" folk and we prefer to live in a single family house with a nice yard for the kids to play in vice one of Mikes high-rise slum palaces. Where the best entertainment the kids have is listening to the neighbors through the paper thin walls or chasing cock-roaches through the dingy hallways. Oh and then there's the pull the emergency stop button on the elevator. Mike won't be happy until we're paying a higher tax rate than Chicago (nations highest taxed city). It won't effect him though, he lives off our taxes.

Mike knows full well that the toll planned for the "3rd Crossing" doesn't even come close to covering the massive costs of planning, building, and mantaining the "3rd Crossing".

If tolls did cover the costs then all those other taxes and fees would not be needed.

The Seante bill - SB 798 (Frank Wagner) proposes that the state will issue and collect the taxes and fees and keep the all-appointed and unaccountable HRTA to provide oversight.

Of course, the question is - will the state now assume the massive billions in new bond debt?

Well that's how the 3rd Crossing will be paid for as well. It will be a toll road, and it may be a PPV, and in either case, bonds will be issued and paid off by the revenue generated by users. There may be a delta but I would fully expect that as much revenue will be generated by tolls as possible, and of course trucks will pay a much higher fee than cars, I assume based on standard calculations on wear and tear. So frankly, I don't see much difference. Of course, all the other projects will be done in the same way; that is, they will all be toll roads and again I assume as much revenue will be generated by tolls as possible. Also, money used to plan and engineer the projects will to the degree possible be paid for by tolls. So I don't see much difference between the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel and the HRTA, except that I would hope that all the HRTA projects use electronic tolls from the beginning.

Well of course, that just reveals the biggest problem which is total ignorance or denial of the fiscal impact of the large industries in this region. Economic impact measures the benefits for us, not for the port. That is the sum total of the money we receive through the value of payroll, contracts, taxes paid to cities, fees paid, and money generated within our economy. That of course is the point; we receive that money through our employers, the firms we work for, and we use those funds to support our families. So a criticism of these industries like the port, the military, the tourism industry is to say that you don't care if these industries thrive and prosper. Now we know the port will pay its fair share in tolls and fees, and of course the critics know that as well, but they just keep on with ignorant comments, thereby doing all they can ot styme progress on improvements. But of course, we know the GA has acknowldeged that these projects must be built. Now we are just arguing over how to do it. They will be built.

The Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel was fannjanced with bonds, retired by tolls paid by those who use it, in exactly the same way we propose the 3rd Crossing be financed. And, it was built ahead of schedule and under budget.

This is exactly the model we have proposed for the 3rd Crossing and the lane additions to points West. If the projects cannot be financed by those who benefit from it without taking money by force from others who do not benefit, that is the marketplace telling you that it shouldn't be built at all.

I would think the Port interests would like the idea, as they could start a self financed crossing immediately and be using it in only a few years instead of 20 years from now. But if they only want it if someone else of forced to pay for it, then it really doesn't make economic sense.