NORFOLK
The City Council reversed course Tuesday and decided that, for the time being, Norfolk will not become the first Virginia locality to ban smoking in restaurants.
In a 5-2 vote, the council rescinded a smoking ban it had passed last fall.
A watered-down substitute ban, fashioned by City Attorney Bernard A. Pishko to better withstand a legal challenge, did not muster enough support to come to a vote.
A ban had been set to go into effect next week . It passed 7-1 in October, with Councilman Paul R. Riddick the only negative vote.
On Tuesday, Councilman Barclay C. Winn said he voted to repeal the ban because the council was advised by Pishko that it likely would not survive a court challenge.
Other council members said they had second thoughts largely because of fears that Norfolk restaurants would lose business to surrounding cities.
Virginia Beach and other Hampton Roads cities asked the General Assembly in its winter session for permission to ban smoking but were denied. Norfolk officials had hoped to ban smoking under its unique city charter.
Winn was joined by Riddick, W. Randy Wright, Don Williams and Vice Mayor Anthony L. Burfoot in voting to repeal the ban. Councilwoman Daun S. Hester was out of town.
Councilwoman Theresa Whibley, who pushed the city to prohibit smoking, and Mayor Paul Fraim voted to uphold the ban.
Whibley wondered what happened in five months to change four votes.
“We are all talking about how the state didn’t have the nerve to pass what our citizens wanted,” she said. “We dropped the ball like they did.”
A council majority voiced support Tuesday for a smoking ordinance proposed by Williams that would ban smoking but leave an escape clause – restaurant owners could pay a $1,000 annual fee and apply for a permit to become exempt from the law.
Under his proposal, restaurants that received a permit would be required to post warning signs at every entrance indicating that smoking is allowed.
“Half a loaf is better than nothing,” Williams said.
“I think it does nothing,” Whibley replied.
After Williams drew support from four other council members, Fraim asked Pishko to compose an ordinance based on Williams’ proposal. It will be considered in April.
Restaurant owners rejoiced over the repeal of the ban, but some worried about the $1,000 fee in Williams’ proposal.
“It would put a serious dent in my budget,” said Dave Willis, who runs the Haven Inn in the Military Circle area.
Ronnie Boone, an Ocean View developer who runs three Norfolk restaurants, said the $1,000 fee won’t necessarily hurt him. But he added: “For the small, family-run restaurants, it could become a hardship.”
Anti-smoking advocates urged the council to stand fast. Lorene E. Alba, a Peninsula resident and an asthma specialist with the American Lung Association, noted that 50,000 Americans die every year from second-hand smoke.
“Norfolk is a destination for people from the Peninsula,” she said. “This will make it more of a destination.”
For every Norfolk resident who goes to a Virginia Beach restaurant to smoke, “you’ll get four or five people from Virginia Beach,” added Hilton Oliver, an anti-smoking advocate from the Beach.
Katie A. Pepe of the American Cancer Society lamented the vote, saying of the council members: “I think they just got scared.”
Harry Minium, (757) 446-2371, harry.minium@pilotonline.com
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sylcnlyc
What is so dumb and should be criminal is that you subjected a two year old to "smoke all over the place". I bet you people puff away right in her face.
RE:Taking my gorwn kids
When most smokers go to a restaurant they really don't expect to smoke, but when they go to a bar they do. Non-smokers are really a hoot wanting to ban smoking from ALL bars and restaurants. There is no need nor does it make any sense.
They don't need city approval
The funny thing is the restaurant owners have the right make their establishment smoke free if they want to.
Taking my grown kids and
Taking my grown kids and theri family out for dinner last weekend, we went to Outback which is one of our most favorite restaraunts to go to. The waiting line was out the door so I proceeded to sign in and to wait my 45 minutes..well, the young lady said if there are any tables on the "smoking" side, I was free to sit there.
I found 3 tables and grabbed one for my family. (We are all non smokers including my 2 year old grandaughter). We had the most wonderful meal and wasn't bothered one bit by anyone smoking in our section cause the tables are so far apart. The funny part was the same people waiting for non smoking tables were still waiting when we finshished our meal.
Being a restaraunt that caters to both smoking and non smoking, we laughed all the way out of the place cause there is no barrier for the smoking section. Now just how stupid can people really be? To wait for a non smoking table in a SMOKING establishment! This shows how screwed up some peoples brains are..hilarious! Waiting on a non smoking table when the smoke is in the air all over..so dumb!
Are you Afraid of "Freedom of Choice"
Would someone please direct me to the smoking resturants where the valet holds a gun to your head and makes you go in and diner there. I want to watch fools being denied their freedom of choice. BTW I don't smoke.
Smokers money
What most restaurant owners are looking at and most people here aren't is that there is a lot money than just the smokers they are going to lose. When my family goes out, it's 5 adults and 1 grandson. I'm the only smoker, but I won't spend my money in a restaurant that doesn't want me in or my money. They aren't just losing 1 smoker, but rather 1 smokers family. If I'm going to spend 150 - 200 bucks for a meal, I ain't going to be treated like a second class citizen just because I smoke. It makes too much sense to for non-smokers to stay out of places that allow smoking. When (or if) Virginia bans smoking in all restaurants, I will stop going out once to twice a week.
At least....
At least you Norfolkians are a constant source of good entertainment. I had to roll over with laughter once again about the insane idea of "banning" smoking but then charging $1000 for whomever wants to break that "law". What will it take to impress upon you wannabe dogooders that the simple solution is to frequent establishments that cater to your wants and not go to the ones that don't. If you don't like seafood or get sick by it, I suggest that you don't frequent seafood restaurants. Better yet, don't try to close them down or ban seafood because you don't like it or get sick by it. Where is your brain? Oh, liberal school again. Oh the Florida example doesn't compare because Florida has bars and restaurants and we only have restaurants. "Bars" in Florida are still smoking.
Good fences make good neighbors
Norfolk's Charter allows it to ban smoking if it so desires. Norfolk could ban smoking in all restaurants with a single caveat. A restaurant could pay the thousand dollars (or one dollar) and be exempt but would be classified as a Smoking restaurant. You don't have to smoke of course, but patrons will realize that there will be no smoke free section; the source of all the second hand smoke complaints. Since only Norfolk is allowed to do this, we would become the dining and entertainment center of the area. All those people who claimed that they would come to smoke free restaurants in Norfolk could now do so. In addition, smokers could go to establishments where they are not treated like lepers and accused of destroying the health of delicate non-smokers. I suggest those establishments have their doors rigged with a recording of Toby Keith singing "I love this bar." as they enter.
Smoking Ban
People this is simple, it is against the law to ban smoking in Virginia because in this state we use the Dillon Rule of Law.
City Council members should not break the law, they have to follow the Code of Law of Virginia just like the rest of us. They are not exempted. It just doesn't get more simple than that!!!!!!
$1000 a year
"A council majority voiced support Tuesday for a smoking ordinance proposed by Williams that would ban smoking but leave an escape clause – restaurant owners could pay a $1,000 annual fee and apply for a permit to become exempt from the law."
"Under his proposal, restaurants that received a permit would be required to post warning signs at every entrance indicating that smoking is allowed."
The $1000 a year fee makes no sense whatsoever. It's against the law to ban smoking, but Norfolk wants $1000 a year to override the law. Someone please tell me the common sense in this.
RE:Smoking Ban
"People that smoke don't seem to realize that we choose not to smoke and should not be subjected to it. And you know what? I only wish that people that choose to smoke could have seen my family members SUFFER from this disease, it is an awful thing to remember."
Why don't you exercise your rights to go to a smoke free restaurant which there are hundreds of instead of dictating what everyone should do just because it's what you want?
Law doesn't apply to you --- if you fork over $1000
So, if you want to spend $1000, you will be able to break a law that others must obey...sounds like preferential treatment for those who can afford it. Typical plan from our "honorable" politicians.
They chickened out!
Well, Norfolk's city council has no more backbone nor brains than ours does in Chesapeake. They can't even stick to a decision they made a few months ago. Vote them all out, just like we in Chesapeake are going to do May 6.
Good fences make good neighbors
Restaurants should be able to be licensed as Smoking or Non-Smoking based on the owner's choice. There should be no mixed licenses. The majority of restaurants would probably choose Non-Smoking considering the higher number of Non-Smokers. However, this would allow some to cater to Smokers if they wish. This method will allow the ever decreasing number of Smokers to not have to fight this same battle over and over. As their numbers decrease, probably so will the number of restaurants choosing Smoking. However, it will be personal choice and not government fiat as the determinant.
Smoking Ban
Okay this is the final straw for me. I have lost two very important family members to this "disease". What about my rights? For years I have had no choice but to put up with the smoking, but enough is enough. I do not want to breathe in harmful fumes any longer. What is the big deal for people that choose to smoke, to go outside? I just do not get it. Businesses will do just fine and probably more people will frequent those businesses if it were non.smoking.
I am originally from FL and they are non.smoking. It was wonderful to go out to dinner, this past Christmas and not be asked "smoking or non.smoking". Let's face it, even if you go in non.smoking you can still smell it. People that smoke don't seem to realize that we choose not to smoke and should not be subjected to it. And you know what? I only wish that people that choose to smoke could have seen my family members SUFFER from this disease, it is an awful thing to remember.
...zzz...zzz...zzz...zzz...
Somebody wake me up when America gets a backbone.
Allow us to sue the smokers.
If i run my car into someone i can get sued, so if I smoke and pollute someone elses space, i should get sued.We shouldn't ban smoking but allow non-smokers to sue smokers for health problems.This will be more effective than a ban and we can drain those sub-prime smokers of every last cent. What is wrong with our town. The whole of Europe, even e.europe banned smoking in public places. NY,Chicago,California too. Why are we so behind.
Amazing! It might all come down to paying a $1,000 fee!
Ordinance or no ordinance was the original issue. Agree with that or not, fine! But for this whole thing to now boil down to charging a $1,000 fee to "allow" smoking is so ludicrous, .... so THEM (the Norfolk City Council)! Imagine not being permitted to litter on city streets UNLESS you had a permit for which you paid $1,000 that allowed you to do so. What a bunch of morons! I know, I know ... "Vote 'em out!" Anyone want to wager every single one of them will still be in office after election day? We have a city council we richly deserve.
Smoking Ban
Mayor Fraim and Councilwoman Whibley - thank you for standing your ground on this particular issue. Everyone says the government shouldn't be involved, that it should be the owners decision. I disagree. If owners of any type of business are endangering the lives of their guests then, and they're too stupid to realize or do anything about it, then gov't needs to get involved. NO restaurant will lose business from the ban. If a regular truly loves the restaurant then they will put aside their smoking for an hour or go outside. Stores and such have people moving about, in and out. In a restaurant people come to sit, sometimes over an hour, in a closed environment and, as I stated yesterday, the smoke will not honor the invisible line that owners establish.
RE: Paid Off
"My husband and I were already checking out new places to dine at in Norfolk where we could meet up with friends and enjoy a smoke-free evening. I guess the restaurants in Norfolk don't want additional customers"
There are plenty of nonsmoking restaurants in Norfolk so what's the problem? The problem is nonsmokers want an across the board banning of smoking in ALL restaurants. Why would you want that? You aren't going to ALL those restaurants to begin with. You have CHOICES AND OPTIONS. Nothing has been taken away from you. Why you continue to whine about this is beyond me. Get a grip because you act like a bunch of spoiled brats who didn't get thie way.
Get out of our lives, Council
Let the owner of a business make such decisions. I do not want government at any level to make moral decisions or to get involved in personal choices. Fraim and Whibley are hereby crowned The Dork and Dorkess of Norfolk.
Too bad
Norfolk once again showed who controls City Council. The Big Businessmen.
It's a shame ...
It's a shame as voters we don't have the luxury of reversing decisions like our elected officials do. We're stuck with the choices we make in November.
con't
I look at this issue and the hypocrisy and I’m concerned when they make any decisions now on anything because they all with exception of one change on a dime; they say, literally.
It just shows the lack of
It’s not how big or small the issue is, it is the mark of representatives not educating on the issues or that then only one side of the issue or issues are known? I just don't understand if these individuals are making informed decisions that they would not stick to their vote in the first place. I'm a smoker and I was fine with it, though I also like smoking, but if it disturbed others I would remove myself. These are words for the representation, I smoke but have formed views based on who I'm, the mayor smokes, and he would probably remove himself if he was bothering others, right?
My point is that the Mayor and I opt for our bad habit but we don't want to bother anyone and we know smoke bothers some, we have known this for some time and we have formed judgments about what we will do if we are bothering others with our fumes. So then the Mayor and council also have information themselves, all have experience, whether smoker or not. It was good before; I guess my point is, if it was important to not allow smoking before how is it justified now because the possible drop in revenue? Or rather, we take this as a sign that our representation in lacking in sound judgment. I look at
Smoking Ban
This bunch of geniuses bought in to the competitive disadvantage lie. Since no local city bans smoking, a ban would actually be a competitive advantage since more than 70% of people don't smoke!
smoking ban
NO GUTS!!!!!!!!!! Why not take a stand and be the first? Be a leader and others will follow. If whole countries can do it so can we.
You put your left foot in...
Wishy-washy council. Pick a side and stick to it, I'm tired of reading about this crap already.
Wimps!
Take a stand! Norfolk city council is a bunch of wimps!
Paid Off
Well, Norfolk you had a chance to step up to the plate and hit a grand slam, but instead you struck out. I've been to other states that have smoking bans, and yes, at first, business dropped off, but after a month or so, it came back even stronger. It's obvious that the tobacco companies have their wallets out on this issue. They don't care about the health of Virginia. All they want is huge profits. It's really sad.
My husband and I were already checking out new places to dine at in Norfolk where we could meet up with friends and enjoy a smoke-free evening. I guess the restaurants in Norfolk don't want additional customers. So..just keep breathing in those nicotine fumes and worry about your health problems caused by second hand smoke. I'm really disappointed in our elected officials and their lack of a backbone.