COURTLAND
Days after a band of committed farmers celebrated their defeat of Navy plans for a jet landing field in North Carolina, a group of Virginia residents turned out en masse to start a similar battle.
More than 650 people packed Southampton High School's auditorium Wednesday night to hear advice from Barry Steinberg, an attorney from Kutak Rock, a Washington-based firm.
Steinberg, a retired Army colonel, wasted little time in telling members of the audience what they wanted to hear.
"It's oversimplistic to say that we are in a fight with the Navy. We want to help the Navy solve its problems. But the solution to the Navy's problems is not in Sussex,
Surry and Southampton counties," he said to applause.
In January, four years after Washington County, N.C., filed a federal lawsuit against the Navy's plans for a landing field there, Navy Secretary Donald Winter took the North Carolina site off the table.
He designated five other sites - two in North Carolina, three in Virginia - for further study. Those sites were among more than a dozen recommended last year by the governors of the two states.
Winter's decision jump-started the nascent opposition to the Virginia sites.
Wednesday's meeting demonstrated how organized Virginians Against the Outlying Landing Field is. In the high school cafeteria, volunteers staffed tables to collect donations, sell red and white "No OLF" yard signs and hawk raffle tickets to raise money for the effort.
The group also distributed pages of contact information for elected officials to target with letters of protest.
Steinberg outlined the process that will unfold over the next three years: scoping meetings, a draft environmental impact statement, and then the record of decision on which site best provides for training squadrons of fighter jets from Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach.
Residents like Jim Hunnicutt said they resent the possibility of their homes' being affected because development in Virginia Beach and Chesapeake has rendered current facilities less than optimal for training pilots.
Hunnicutt bought a $5 sign to display on his 10-acre property in Sedley, about three miles from one of the proposed sites.
"We're getting dumped on," he said. "If we were getting the whole base - with the tax base and population and jobs - it would be one thing. There's no incentive. I don't particularly want it anywhere in
the area."
Steinberg told the crowd that not wanting the landing field isn't a strategy for fighting it.
"We've got to give them ammunition," he said, referring to congressional representatives with some power over military funding.
He advised residents to raise questions about every aspect of the project: How will county finances be affected from losing thousands of acres of taxable property? What would clear-cutting timber for the field do to the population of red-cockaded woodpeckers? How would paving an 8,000-foot runway affect flooding and drainage?
"Running to court is not the answer," Steinberg said. Instead, the community must build an administrative record so it has a case if it does sue later, after the Navy makes its decision, he said.
Steinberg also said the Navy's biggest issue isn't finding a landing field for Oceana's jets - it's pondering Oceana's future when the Joint Strike Fighter, or F-35, replaces the F/A-18 Super Hornet.
"The Navy ought to be looking at the bigger issue," Steinberg said. "Oceana has a problem that needs to be fixed."
The attorney finished his hourlong presentation with an abbreviated civics lesson.
"In a democracy, the will of the people counts," read his final slide. He urged the audience to reach out to state and federal elected officials.
"We don't live in the Soviet Union. We don't live in Red China," he said.
Responding to a question about the likelihood of winning against the Navy, Steinberg cited the Washington County group - a grass-roots effort that fought the field on environmental grounds, in court, and by attracting support from politicians.
"The Navy basically gave up," Steinberg said. "David, 1. Goliath, 0."
Kate Wiltrout, (757) 446-2629, kate.wiltrout@pilotonline.com
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Battle Won......War Lost
No OLF......No airplanes (they will go where they can practice). No airplanes.....No aircraft carriers (they will follow the airplanes). No aircraft carriers.....No need for big ship yards (they will follow the carriers). No ship yards, no airplanes, no carriers......you get the picture. Everyone in this area (including the farmers) will suffer for that decision. Mind you, someone else will probably benefit. Anyone up for moving to Mayport?
I already have suggested the area I live in be considered.
I think the area I live in, or at least really close to would be appropriate for an OLF. I have no problem moving for the USN. They provide something that is very specialized. Extremely few men are talented enough to do their job. I live on one piece of land that has been in my family for years. I consider it a privilege to live here, not a right. As far as people losing jobs goes, my family has been through that a few years ago. We did just like the Ford plant workers, we transitioned. I know it isn't easy but it is possible.
I Must Be Missing Part Of This Story
So why in any of the stories I have read about OLF, hasn't Suffolk even been mentioned as a possible site for OLF. There is still a lot of space there...Have they found a way to "Head them off at the pass?" I mean you look at the map. VB & Chesapeake has a share, NC and regions west of Suffolk are being considered, but, not Suffolk itself, The proximity of the city, makes it seem like a far more logical choice geographically. Sorry citizens of Suffolk, not trying to make enemies, just wondering what I am missing. You obviously possess or have found a loophole for exemption...
I get so tired
of people always saying what is "patriotic" and what is "unpatriotic" when for so many, it's just talk. Ask yourself, what have you DONE to give back, to contribute to the nation, to share the load? I don't advocate anyone losing their home or land arbitrarily because some government official came in and took it. But this is NOT tyranny folks! The Navy has been absolutely cooperative in considering environmental concerns, community concerns, the emotional concerns of affected people. They are not trying to strongarm anybody. People are compensated, concessions are made. That's how it is done. The Navy, the NATION has a need. It is not US vs. THEM. They are us!!! When is it your turn to give, like these men and women have given? Good Lord, you all act like it's George III or Stalin at work here. Play a role in the nation, show some support, compromise, stop just occupying space.
Fight is right and the American Way
I'd fight the OLF if they tried to put it in my backyard. Standing up for yourselves is the American Way. You fight for what is right and in the end a decision is made then we all learn to live with the outcome. It's your right to stand up for your community as much as it is our right to ask you to support the OLF so the jets can remain in VB.
I love the Navy but the city has outgrown the airfield. As much as I love to see the jets in the air around VB, I'd have to say it is time to start moving them toward Cherry Point in phases... Just my 2 cents.
It's the Sound of Tyranny, Not Freedom
Eddie, when you're at sea, another carrier group will be practicing touch and go's. There is no end to it.
To those of you who support OLF's, how would you like it if your occupation as a farmer was cut short by the federal government? It's not about patriotism. It's about our occupations. We have farmed that land for years as our ancestors farmed it. The land has been passed down from generation to generation. Now the mighty federal government wants to come in and take it by eminent domain. Whatever happened to freedom? If we must give up our freedom for safety, soon, we will have neither.
Carolyn, maybe you should volunteer to give up your home for the OLF if you want it so badly.
We are a republic lawyer dudes
The attorney finished his hourlong presentation with an abbreviated civics lesson.
"In a democracy, the will of the people counts," read his final slide. He urged the audience to reach out to state and federal elected officials."
What's the difference? According to my Merriam-Webster:
Democracy — Government by the people; government in which the supreme power is retained by the people and exercised either directly (Ablsolute, or pure), or indirectly (representative).
Republic — A state in which the sovereign power resides in a certain body of the people (the electorate), and is exercised by representatives elected by, and responsible to, them.
O.K. folks,
not me but others in my county in NC don't want the OLF, the other county in NC doesn't want the OLF, you guys in VA don't want the OLF. So, who do you think is going to get it? We are being told by NC politicians that if the site chosen doesn't have "broad local support", it won't go there. Everybody can keep saying they think Va Beach should provide for it but there isn't a chance in this world a major recreational/tourist area is going to take down the buildings. It just isn't going to happen in the world we live in. So, who do you think is going to be the lucky winner out of the five sites.
Holding my sides
"I live out here and a little jet noise is a small price to pay for a well prepared military."
I do hope I meet you in person a year after this occurs(if it does). Your tune will change. When it happens non stop-day and night, your tune will change. A little? Is that what they call it now?
Harvey, I can get you one of those signs.
War is OK.
A war is OK. As long as it, and the training for it, is not done in my backyard.
more than a community
I grew up in Southampton County and I spent 10 years in Norfolk. A big issue here is that the people of Hampton Roads have never considered Surry, Sussex, or Southampton County as a part of Hampton Roads and the citizen of these communities likewise feel the same way. The way of life in these counties is light years different from the rest of Hampton Roads. Most of the citizens grew up there, live there now, and have no plans of ever leaving. They like their country way of life and they are not going to understand what it is like to live in a military community. For all intents, they do not live in one. So to possibly have their family land taken from them, land that in most instances has been in their family for decades (and in some cases, nearly a century) is the real issue for them. This is not unpatriotic. This is just real people trying to protect their way of life and their family legacy.
It's over eventually. . .
There is nothing "unpatriotic" about being upset about the intolerable amount of noise pollution created by the FA-18s overhead. The base isn't/wasn't, designed for the huge squadron of jets now housed at Ocean... You can thank the uneducated, puppet of the Republican Party, Thelma for that, as she was the brainless cheerleader who help swell the numbers of jets in Oceana. Ultimately, it's simply the Navy's fault period. They had MORE than ample time to buy land all around Oceana in a 5 miles radius, and they failed to do so. I don't feel sorry for them. It's not the fault of the City of Virgina Beach ( I hate to side with them though). Bottom line is the pilots deserve better, and sadly, their training is compromised by the location and it has to end. I can't believe (of I should) the idiots called Navy brass are looking for an OLF, when the F35 is do in 2011, and will NOT be stationed at Ocean, so BRAC can do what's right.
Watcher
What happens when they enlargen thier flight radius?
OLF
Does get a bit under the nerves to sometimes hear the loud, rumbling of the jets leaving Oceana and returning. The naval aircraft serve a purpose and I feel many would, or should put up with a little noise versus what the consequences could be by not having the best trained pilots in the world. Besides the consequence of not sending our guys off to fight our wars without the training they deserve, think what the financial problems the area would face if the navy ever were to leave. I have been a lifetime resident of the beach, and knew there was a place called Oceana for as long as I can remember. I don't think there are many who were not aware that Oceana was located in the beach when they purchased their homes, and any transaction that occures (real estate) in the zones affected by noise from the aircraft must be disclosed. I can't believe that anyone who lives in Tidewater does not know where Oceana, Norfolk Naval Air Station, etc are or did not know of their location before buying. The folks that live in the rural areas also know what was around them when they selected their homes. There were no OLFs. If OLFs are indeed necessary, then every consideration should be made to esta
continuation
a 'city that has carried the burden', why don't you talk about Norfolk,
where 40-45% of the land is tax exempt due to the Navy base.
And have a nice day.
Mathematical Description
Good people of potential OLF sites in Virginia! Fear not, just use the following tried and true results driven formula for your cause:
(Obstructionism + Victimization) X (Profiteering + Leftist Activism) = Environmental Lawsuit
Don't let the fact that this will require the Navy to expend huge sums of taxpayer dollars which would otherwise be used to man, train and equip our forces get in your way. It's not like we're fighting a war or anything. The end result is that you retain your perceived utopia, the woodpeckers stay safe, fictious drainage problems never materialize and environmental law firms get to add another line to their resume. Now that's progress!
ps: Where can I get one of those nifty looking "No OLF" signs?
Let's not forget a couple
Let's not forget a couple things here.
1) neither the city nor the Navy bought the land around Oceana
2) when Oceana was built they flew planes not jets
3) the jets are getting a lot louder
4) louder jets are soon coming
5) Im pretty sure thier are bad drivers not in the Navy
6) the Navy flight paths have changed
7) you can be patriotic and not want jets flying over your house
8) the Navy, city and state need to find a solution
what ever happened to Fentress Field?
Personally I think this issue speaks to the lack of leadership. No one stepped up and bought up the land around Oceana but private citizens. Why didnt the Navy purchase more land as they transitioned from planes to jets? Why didnt the city/state buy more land with some of thier tax revenues?
We are were we are. Where are the leaders?
The Couties are clients of this firm....
I can tell you who paid for this high price law firm too. The taxpayers in Southampton and Sussex Counties where our boards of supervisors voted to hire the firm without consent of the taxpayers who elected them to office. I live out here and a little jet noise is a small price to pay for a well prepared military. It would be nice if the Supervisors had gotten public imput from taxpayers before spending our money lobbyists.
Unless you have lived at the beach since "pre-oceana"
you cannot ask someone to share what you accepted when you bought a home and moved to the beach. I would not live at the beach for several reasons, 1 being jet noise, the other being traffic. I don't complain about congested roads, too much traffic, non- driving people and over crowded schools. We accepted the fact we would commute 40 miles to work 1 way everyday so we could enjoy peace and quiet. I don't have issues with traffic and congested roadways because when I leave work and head west, 99% of the time it is clear sailing, 70 mph and no back ups. Asking us "country folks" to share your jet noise is like asking us to pay part of you excessive real estate taxes. Come on out for a visit with us "country folk", maybe you will see what we are trying to protect. Just don't bring any luggage, or ideas of moving out to the country. It is starting to get crowded. My kids high School almost has a whole 550 kids in it.
Just the Facts & Simple Math
1. Kutak Rock law firm's philosophy, taken directly from their web page, is "As a firm we are committed to leveraging our resources across the nation to meet our clients’ needs." No where did I read in the article that the firm of Kutak Rock had been retained (paid for by a person or org) thereby demonstrating that there is no client. Since there is no client (one who pays for services), this was not advice to a client, it was a speculating sales pitch.
2. "We're getting dumped on," he (Jim Hunnicutt) said. "If we were getting the whole base - with the tax base and population and jobs - it would be one thing. There's no incentive..." Sir, as I understand your quote, the perceived injustice would be resolved through finacial incentives of relocating the entire base. The cause is either about getting $$ or preserving the land and way of life....can't be both. Your quote really sheds a light on the true issue.
3. It takes no verifiable evidence or credible analysis for envrionmental objections to be filed in court effectively tying up efforts for years in court at the expense of taxpayers. Who gains from this....no one but the litigating law firm from attorneys fees.
4.
I can't believe some of you
I can't believe some of you people. You can't tolerate a week or so of bouncing on an OLF, that's all we ask and then we will be at sea and you won't have to deal with us for six/seven months. Thanks for all the support, we apreciate it.
Reality
I would like to answer the queston as to why the NAVY could not build an island in the Atlantic Ocean:
Because it can't. It's not possible. It's apples and orangs to compare this to Japan. As for the bridge to Dam Neck; have you ever been in the ocean?
Well, let's see...
since we don't keep our aircraft carriers in Nevada, keeping our jets there really wouldn't be very cast-effective now would it? It helps when you keep the aircraft and the aircraft CARRIERS in somewhat close proximity. I cannot believe how incredibly self-interested all of you are. The Navy needs a place to train. Whether or not the VB and Chesapeake city "non"-planners are a bunch of brain dead idiots is a completely moot point. I bet half of you run around patting yourselves on the back saying how much you "support the troops," as long as the troops don't affect your life. I lived overseas for 7 years at the end of a flight line where F-16's trained year round and Navy F-18's came in a couple times of year for night training. Guess what? I survived. Life went on. And all this garbage about "if we get the noise, we want the base and the tax revenue and blah blah blah....what a load of baloney...I really do wish the Navy would up and leave and see what happens to your precious wasteland of silence...makes me sick.
BRAC
See how many years the City Of Va Beach thumbed their nose at the Navy and kept building anyway? The threat of Oceana going away threw a giant red flag up didnt it? It's sad that maybe someone else's tranquil life somewhere in VA or NC will be disturbed by the presence of an OLF, but get over it...its the cheapest route to go.
Build an OLF
Why doesn't VA, Va. Beach and the Navy get together and do like Japan did and build a airport at sea? Build a small island a couple of miles off the coast with the runway they want/need, and run the connecting bridge into the Dam Neck area.
He's right
Nevada and other western desert areas are easily reachable by air from California bases.
You know what gets
You know what gets me....
When I moved into my home off Great Neck rd I knew their would be jet noise. And for the first 3 years or so it was as expected. Then suddenly the jets started making larger cicles. And instead of flying south of me they are now flying right over my head. Oh hello up there, thanks for gunning it right over my home.
I resisted the urge to sign on to all those get a piece of the jet noise hand outs becuase I am 100% behind the military. BUT, how is it ok for the Navy to just start flying larger circles? Im pretty sure that the noise level has gone from 65-70 to 75 plus in just a few years.
The F18 are so loud and the new Joint Strike Fighters are going to be even louder. Dear Navy, it's not ok to change your flight parameters.
On the other hand, I see new home sites all around Oceana. Perhaps the Navy has to fly over the established homes so the new homes will sell? Im sure that's not it. It seems to me that their is room for both the City and the Navy to improve how this issue managed.
Jets
I am guessing in the beginning Virginia Beach was the poor country folk! But the city did get greedy and wanted it ALL!! They lied about the noise, and just kept building-still building! The Navy should have bought that land, why they didn’t I don’t know. But now we are stuck with the Jets! My question is, are these people unpatriotic because they don’t want the jets?? Because in VB you are? They should practice but not in an area with homes, schools, business... Nevada does sound good, but where ever they go they need to secure land, and lots of it!
It never ceases to amaze me
It never ceases to amaze me how the "country people" as Union Man refered to them tell you how patriotic they are, and yet seem caterwaul over the possibility of sharing in a burden that Virginia Beach has carried on their behalf for many, many years. Moving an OLF to Nevada might be fine for West Coast aircraft, but not at all practicle for squadrons that are deploying to east coast carriers.
All I keep hearing from those who oppose an OLF is, "What's in it for us, what do we get!?" and "If there's nothing in it for us, we don't want it!!!"
Nice to see the measure of your willingness to share in accomodating the Navy, helping your country and helping your neighbors extends only so far as your wallet is concerned. The citizens of Virginia Beach have carried this burden on your behalf for decades, we built the schools that educated the kids of many a military family, build the roads they needed to drive on and the houses they need to live in. All we're asking for is a little help and they say "no!".
The next time there's a flood or other disaster out your way, we'll remember that.
Va. Beach allowed it. So live with it.
The existing base was built where it was because it was in the middle of the country where it wouldnt bother many people and was near the existing bases. The base was there long before Va. Beach allowed development all around it ignoring the navy recommendations. Its wrong to dump this strip on the currently rural areas, because of Va. Beach's greed. At least if the sent the whole base, with the high paid pilots, the jobs & tax base there would be some incentive. But no, they just want to send the noise and landing strip keeping the benefits here. Go figure. Just expand Oceana and let us be responsible enough to live with the consequences of our actions. Not shove them off on another locality.