NSU will greenlight light rail ... at a cost

The tone and meat of almost all of your posts wreak of prejudice. You all have apparently already have pre-conceived ideas about NSU, its faculty and students None of you really know anything about NSU or what NSU does for the community or the general society. As far as NSU being in the most crime-ridden area of the city, to my understanding that title would easily go to Ocean View. You all are under the great impression that NSU should be grateful because the city wants to disturb the peace and security that they do have in lieu of a rail station? Publicity is something that NSU has made great strides with over the years without a rail station and despite the city and media's other atrocities I'm with you guys, just scrap the station and keep it moving. If NSU students want to use it, they will, to whatever capacity they must but it'll be ok, we're Spartans we're used to rising above adversity.

My thoughts when using the term "ignorant" were based on the fact that there are obviously racist posters that have a racial axe to grind, as indicated by the "rims on the Cadillac" comment among other racial comments. Perhaps things have changed since I was there, but if I had it to do all over, I would not change a thing. My use of the term ignorant had nothing to do with you personally. Your comments were about the institution as you perceive it and I do not recall any blatant or direct racial comments in your post. A lot of NSU grads are fine members of our community and are doing excellent work. It saddens me to see "one size fits all" stereotyping. There are a lot of posts that fall into such a category. The racism is blatant among many of them.

It is not from ignorance I base my opinion but on personal experience. I, too, have undergraduate experience at NSU and ODU, as well as at three out of state institutions. To say the quality of the student body is irrelevant is obtuse. The student population has a great deal to do with the educational value, unless you believe college should be limited to whatever the professor is droning on about. I have found that the quality of the education is much higher, the experience much richer, when intelligent interaction with fellow students is possible. This is sorely lacking at NSU, but then I didn't take every course the university offers. A member of my immediate family quit graduate school there because not only was the instruction substandard but the administration was completely dysfunctional.

NSU gives students a second chance at an education. NSU has low selectivity, but accepts underachievers with the understanding that they must undergo remediation, without credit, until they have reached a level of competence to take college level courses for credit. Only a small percentage makes it from remediation all the way to graduation which is why graduation rate numbers are often misinterpreted. However, some still make it that otherwise would not have had a chance. I went to ODU for 2 years and transferred to NSU. The junior and senior level courses at NSU are challenging. I have undergrad exp. at NSU and ODU; and grad. exp. at NSU, ODU, UVA, and Regent. I therefore can speak to the challenging levels of academia at the college level. Don't let incoming SAT scores and GPA's be the measuring stick. Let the productivity of the NSU grads dictate the quality of an NSU education.

According to the State Council of Higher Education for Virginia, incoming Norfolk State freshmen in 2007 had a median SAT score of 860 and an average GPA of 2.66. Not exactly selective. As a comparison, ODU was 1040 / 3.23; Christopher Newport was 1160 / 3.5; and William & Mary was 1360 / 4.0. Further afield, UVa was 1320 / 4.04 and Va Tech was 1200 / 3.75. I give you credit for defending your alma mater, but the numbers don't lie. NSU traditionally has the lowest SAT scores, GPAs and graduation rates of any university in the Commonwealth. As for the university president, I haven't seen anyone demean her personally, just the asinine demand that she be afforded a new house, as well as the other frivolities NSU is trying to extort from the city. And yes, extortion is the correct word. They are trying to hold the light rail project hostage. Frankly, I'd be happy if the rail passed by NSU without a stop and if they wanted one in the future THEY'd have to pay for it.

I am a white, male graduate of NSU and have earned a master’s degree from another university. My NSU degree enabled me to secure a good job that I have held for eight years. Some of the most intelligent people I know make up the NSU community. There is probably not one person that has posted here that would even qualify for a university president's position. Yet, you feel obligated to demean her. The university, like any other, reveres its president. It doesn't hurt to ask for what you want. That is not extortion! It is logical to request a parking garage rather than have students and commuters share a lot that is already overcrowded. Why not ask for a noise/sight barrier? All campuses strive for better aesthetics. If you don't have a college degree, keep your mouth shut as far as passing judgment on the quality of education NSU provides! If you have a degree, don’t let racism skew your comments.

T Rose your quote "It seems to me that people who can afford to own a car and drive it to the light rail parking lot would rather continue driving to their destination, rather than pay a fee to ride the light rail and be without access to their car until they return via light rail to the parking lot." hits the nail on the head.

Your intuition is exactly correct as proven over and over again by study after study and subsidized light rail after light rail across this country. Not a single light rail in the country covers operational cost. They are all losers with tax payers paying the roughly 70% gap for the life of them. These are always seen as the solution to traffic on "my route" but "I'm not riding it". People in the Tidewater won't ride the current mass tranportation (busses) in any number or even car pool. So why will they now ride a light rail? They may not ride it, but they will pay for its operation forever. New line item in the budget that NEVER goes away.....and these aint cheap.

...some of the comments on here are appalling! As much as i would like to debate some blatant attacks on the University, I will not. At this time, the subject matter is the light rail system, and if a debate spawns I will be the first to sign up. It seems, no matter what, stereotypes will prevail.

...I am not a graduate of NSU yet, but i stayed at a Holiday Inn last night, LOL!!!

A Memorandum of Understanding is a note that basically states that the parties will work towards a common goal, in this case to get a light rail project initiated. NSU and HRT are expected to partner in an effort to smooth any details of that memorandum. That memorandum is expected to mature into a binding agreement. A Memorandum of Understanding is no more than a co-worker sending you a post-it note that you both will, "work on that project for your boss" together. It (MoU) is expected to develop. In the case of this project, the MoU never matured (even though the funding was approved). If the project would not have been approved in the last quarter of 2007, this may still be a behind-the-scenes issue.

NSU is not requesting a handout. ANY individual would look at their personal "best" interests in light of a similar situation. When the City asks you to give up half your backyard to put in that new landfill remember this conversation. Would you not want compensation? How is this different?.

It IS better for the overall good of the Tidewater community to have the light rail. The Memorandum between NSU and HRT is not binding... it is loosely written, and for crying

According to the reading " Much of the flap originates from an agreement signed by NSU *AND* HRT leaders in 2004 outlining how the rail line will interact with the campus.

HRT planned the rail line based on that agreement."

HRT spokesman James Toscano, He noted that the last line of the agreement reads: “This Memorandum of Understanding may require modification in the future and is intended to reflect the understandings between the parties as of the date of this Memorandum of Understanding.”

Williams said the *city* regards the agreement as a commitment “to work with us” on the “detail and specificity,” she said.

Bobby Norris Vassar, rector of NSU’s board, "NSU has expressed its concerns over the past two years."

While the two parties have communicated in letters and meetings during that time, the city and HRT didn’t concentrate on resolving the issues until recently – after winning federal approval and money in October.

“Because that was the focus, there were things that were not worked on,” Williams said.

These we statements from the published story. Its seems that some officials jumped the gun before fully working the details out. Now t

It seems to me that people who can afford to own a car and drive it to the light rail parking lot would rather continue driving to their destination, rather than pay a fee to ride the light rail and be without access to their car until they return via light rail to the parking lot.

Plant some bushes as someone had previously mentioned but don't try to extort the city because the college built your crib too close to the public. This is a public school right? Perhaps her royal highness could renovate the technology center and rule from there?

Thank you sir. With your race baiting and illogical arguments, I can with confidence mark NSU off of a list of colleges for my children. You view of the perceived right to public funds was no doubt shaped while you where at the university.

You know that the important thing is to get the train up and running. The rest will follow suit. The train is a benefit to all of the city and especially the students. Many students literally scrape their way through their college years. Your take on the matter would actually make it harder for students to make it. There are many failed attempts at education in both the white and black community. Making it harder for the students to realize the education they need does not help society as a whole. THe needs of students should be placed well in front of the asset building the school is attempting. You mention ODU several times. Perhaps you did not read how badly ODU wants this train. NSU is lucky to have this opportunity.

Thank you for drawing the line that seperates us.

Pray tell the comment about Escalades was in jest. If so, the comment was only a sorry attempt at humour. If not, just what were you implying?

Why is it unreasonable for NSU to negotiate toward an advantage for the school? Developers have long negotiated with the city to developers' advantage. ODU, has always been treated, by the city & Commonwealth, more favorably than NSU.
As for crime, the neighborhood around ODU was once crime-ridden. ODU was given funds to buy up property in those areas, eliminating some of the crime & enlarging their campus. Years later, new neighborhoods were built close to NSU.
Many programs that existed at NSU prior to being at ODU, were eliminated at NSU, by state & local officials, under the guise of elimination of duplication. Anyone familiar with the history of these 2 fine institutions, could go into details concerning these matters.
Now that it appears NSU has, for once, some bargaining edge, some are crying foul. What goes around, comes around.

I hope the city not only doesn't give a dime to NSU, but that they make the maintanence building as utilitarian as possible. NSU built the President's house there a long time ago, when the view was of a freight train and the interstate...Remember it's not the City's or the State's money involved here, it's the TAXPAYERS!!! We, the taspayers, should not be flim flammed by NSU out of OUR tax dollars because they built their President's house
next to the baseball field, and in front of the railroad tracks and interstate, which is elevated there by the way and now want to replace it outside of their budget. ....NSU live with it... Remember if the city caves in to NSU, every other property owner down the line will be looking for the same treatment...$$$$$$$$....

The stop should just be deleted from the plan - problems solved. The wall that they want should still be built to block the view while passing by. This solution eliminates much of the added nonsense from NSU, allows the project to move forward as it would, and ends up being an improvement overall.

They may forfeit the one that is unacceptable to obtain the one that is laughable.. most likely correct the rest would probably be granted without a lot of argument......presumably..Not bad Poker actually..(theory)@this point

I have watched the negotiations unfold over the past several weeks between HRT, the city of Norfolk, and NSU. Hoping that a reasonable agreement could be hammered out that would be satisfactory to all parties concerned I have not commented concerning this matter. I will do so now. In starting, the request to have city purchase the President's house (and deeded back to the grantor) is completely unacceptable and a serious sticking point to furthur negotiations. Also, the request to build a parking deck is absolutely laughable. With regards to installing noise and sight barriers and "indemnifying the university for any damage caused by the rail construction" I am in complete agreement with these requests and hope they are currently being addressed. (If they haven't already)The addition of Light Rail to any University (Or metro area for that matter) is a win-win for all involved. This includes NSU faculty, staff and the 8,600 students that attended the University. NSU leadership has known about the particulars concerning the construction, design ideas, and required easements for the Light Rail for several years now. NSU leadership had an agreement in principle with the city and HRT. N

After reading your posts, it brings into question that the house may be a "Red Herring"..Put on the table to intentionally forfeit to obtain the rest with a lot less effort..

What's in NSU's "best iterests" is HAVING a rail terminal. If they make it excessively expensive then locate it elsewhere, nearby....their fault (and loss)

This whole situation started over Vassar publically stating that his reservations were about "security" and the view of the "presidential" house. A few people, over a week ago, properly smelled the roses that this was nothing more than an attempt by NSU to pilfer money from the city. If you have resided in one of the most crime ridden areas of the city for decades and have an open campus already, how can you cry foul? Don't even try to drag what ifs about ODU into this. This whole proposal by NSU is nothing short of extortion by a "university" that is 93% publicly funded.

“If you come in and take something over, even if you think it’s a bad agreement, you have to honor the agreement,” said Councilman W. Randy Wright, who has fought for light rail in Norfolk.
Vassar said NSU has expressed its concerns over the past two years.
While the two parties have communicated in letters and meetings during that time, the city and HRT didn’t concentrate on resolving the issues until recently – after winning federal approval and money in October.
“Because that was the focus, there were things that were not worked on,” Williams said."

Sure doesn't sound like it.

"For once I'll actually stand behind the council. They're not dictating anything other than that NSU stick to its end of the bargain - to which they had already agreed." In the world of construction and development MOU's are very loosely written documents with very general terms. They do not suffice for an formal easement or contract. This one falls squarely on the shoulders of the council who should never, ever, have let a project of this cost and risk go forward without formal agreements, right of way, and easments secured. We'll all pay for their incompetence on this one. The delays caused by this will create legally compensable damages all the way through the job as thier schedule with either push some work into winter weather (with resulting production delays) or they will be forced to accelerate thier schedule which means more work hours (read overtime) and equipment, fuel, expedited material deliveries etc. Should be a nice claim for the contractor. More taxes for us.

cs said: "For once I'll actually stand behind the council. They're not dictating anything other than that NSU stick to its end of the bargain - to which they had already agreed."

Regarding the agreement you're referring to, per the article the last line of the agreement reads: “This Memorandum of Understanding may require modification in the future and is intended to reflect the understandings between the parties as of the date of this Memorandum of Understanding.” Plus it was OKd by the previous presidential administration of NSU. It's not binding and it states that explicitly.

NSU is doing what's in its best interest and I would expect nothing less.

dfwdabull said: "I think NSU administration should tell Fraim to throw in a Cadillac Escalade with 24 inch rims for every "student" just for good measure..."

Once again, sadly this doesn't surprise me one bit. LOL@ the things people say when they can hide behind the anonymity of a computer screen.

Back to substance. I have yet to read any comments on here that show these requests to be out of line (except for the house thing), and I challenge any of you to explain to me why say, ODU wouldn't perhaps request similar accommodations (again, with the noted exception of buying the president's house).

...or is the problem that it's the "black school" who's doing the asking?

I knew it wouldn't be long before SOME people made this into a race issue. If ODU requested similar accommodations I'd bet the visceral barbs I have read on here WOULDN'T EXIST. Sadly this doesn't surprise me one bit.

Tell me, what institution (private or public) WOULDN'T use whatever leverage they have at their disposal to achieve whatever is in their own best interest? Doesn't that make sense? Hell, I'd think less of NSU if they didn't. It's called negotiations. Offer ---> counteroffer and so-on. Why does this appear to be such an alien idea to so many of you? Don't corporations and individuals do this all the time? Why would a university be any different, whether it's UVA, ODU, or NSU?

With the exception of the request involving the president's house (which frankly is wayyy in left field) the rest of the accommodations seem quite reasonable, even customary.

I think NSU administration should tell Fraim to throw in a Cadillac Escalade with 24 inch rims for every "student" just for good measure...

For once I'll actually stand behind the council. They're not dictating anything other than that NSU stick to its end of the bargain - to which they had already agreed.

Glad to see NSU has enough spunk to stand up to the dictators and demand what they want as they have for the past 2 years. It is kind of hard to take land from a public institution and if the dictators want to park their riders cars then build the parking garage and when they do I hope NSU puts up signs at the 97 parking spaces "NSU Parking Only" and when someone does park there illegally then have them towed. If this was the dictators home being invaded by unwanted sightseers they would want the city to either move the train or pay for a new residence. Keep the stiff upper lip NSU as the dictators will be trying to push you around some more. When you sell the house to the dictators be sure to get the fiar market value if not more.