WASHINGTON
The question had lingered for seven months, unanswered, since the last appearance on Capitol Hill by America's top military commander in Iraq and the U.S. ambassador to that country.
So no one was very surprised Tuesday when Virginia Sen. John Warner, a supporter-turned-skeptic of the Bush administration's handling of the war, posed it again.
"Is all this sacrifice bringing about a more secure America?" Warner asked Gen. David Petraeus.
Petraeus said he has thought about that a lot and believes the U.S. effort in Iraq has been worth the cost in American lives - more than 4,000 - and dollars - as much as $1 trillion. As to whether those losses have made the United States safer, he said, "it can only be answered by history, once the outcome in Iraq has been determined."
Petraeus' and Ambassador Ryan Crocker's continued uncertainty about the war defined Tuesday's latest round of hearings on the conflict and left Warner's question still not fully answered. The general and the ambassador agreed that the U.S. troop surge has improved security but that the gains are fragile.
"Almost everything about Iraq is difficult," Petraeus said repeatedly.
As expected, Petraeus said he's recommended that President Bush halt the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq in July, when the last of the 30,000 troops added by the surge are due to depart. He suggested that military and civilian leaders "undertake a 45-day period of consolidation and evaluation" in July, to be followed by "a process of assessment to examine the conditions on the ground."
That will leave about 140,000 Americans still in the fight, and Petraeus said that it could be months before he'll recommend more reductions.
Petraeus endorsed the idea of reducing soldiers' tours of duty in Iraq from the current 15 months to 12 months, a move Bush is expected to announce Thursday. It would be effective this summer.
Republicans, led by presumptive presidential nominee Sen. John McCain of Arizona, generally signaled their willingness to accept the general's plan and took heart from Petraeus' charts showing a decline in insurgent attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces.
They were concerned, but not alarmed, by recent fighting between Iraqi forces and insurgents in the city of Basra, a battle Petraeus acknowledged was opened against his advice.
"We're no longer staring into the abyss of defeat, and we can now look ahead to the genuine prospect of success," McCain said. A move to withdraw now, "before adequate security is established... will exchange for this victory a defeat that is terrible and long-lasting."
Senate Democrats, including presidential candidates Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, complained that Iraq's progress is too slow and the U.S. commitment dangerously open-ended.
They charged that Nouri al-Maliki's government is using American aid to rebuild the country instead of its own money, including profits on oil sold to Americans.
Obama, of Illinois, used his questioning time during an afternoon hearing of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee to press the general and ambassador for a sharper definition of U.S. success in Iraq. The surge has produced security improvements, he acknowledged, but the U.S. will never be able to stop all attacks inside Iraq or block Iranian efforts to influence events there.
Amid all the domestic disagreement over the U.S. course in Iraq, "there's a bipartisan consensus that we have finite resources," Obama cautioned. "The amount of money we are spending is hemorrhaging our budget," he said. Clinton, of New York, meanwhile, defended her calls for a timetable for the U.S. withdrawal.
"Even General Petraeus as recently as three and a half weeks ago has acknowledged that the Iraqi government has not made sufficient political progress," she said. "The administration and supporters of the administration's policy often talk about the cost of leaving Iraq, yet ignore the greater cost of continuing the same failed policy."
The jockeying among the candidates provided an unusual backdrop for Tuesday's hearings - Petraeus and Crocker will face a pair of House committees today - and may have marked the first time a wartime military commander has had to field such questions in public forum from a presumptive future commander in chief. More than 100 reporters and photographers were on hand for the morning session of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the clicking of camera shutters as McCain, Clinton and Obama spoke seemed at times to match the volume of the room's sound system.
The hearings also drew dozens of anti-war demonstrators, some carrying small pink-and-black signs with slogans like "SURGE OF SORROW" and SURGE OF SADNESS."
A few women among the demonstrators dressed entirely in black, covering their heads with scarves in the style of Muslim women and painting their faces a ghostly white.
The protests were mostly orderly, but Armed Services chairman Carl Levin, D-Mich., ordered police to remove one man who interrupted Petraeus with shouts of "Bring them home!" The man was dragged from the room.
Several Democrats, including Virginia Sen. Jim Webb, pressed the Bush administration to seek congressional approval of long-term security agreements that Crocker and other officials are negotiating with the Iraqi government.
Crocker said the administration is discussing a "strategic framework" for Iraqi security, not an agreement that would commit U.S. troops. Webb suggested the agreements may include treaty-like commitments that would require congressional backing.
Other senators called for what Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, dubbed a "surge of diplomacy" to involve other Middle East nations in stabilizing Iraq.
"We're kind of bankrupting this country," Voinovich said. American diplomats need to make sure that Iraq's neighbors understand that the U.S. will soon depart Iraq and that "it's not in their best interest to see this thing blow up."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Dale Eisman, (703) 913-9872, dale.eisman@pilotonline.com
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Personally
I don't care what Barney Fife or Winston Churchill have to say. I say this war has been a huge mistake from day one.
re Barney Fife(BF), Churchill (WC), & ?
You say "Churchill States" & then say,"you are incorrect here too." I'm afraid you aren't making much sense.. The parts of the speech you are using were not used in my "quotes"..IE "German" Etc. Take that up with www."WC".org..or your source.."Contr. Fife", the quote from BF was used per "your" suggestion. As to giving quotes from WC a rest, I did, I used a BF quote, once again, at "your" request. Your "BF" quotes are inappropriate. WC's name however, graces the name of one of the finest vessels in the US Navy, an honor that is very rarely accorded to anyone representing a country other than the USA. His quotes will again appear, if I see fit, & believe the "portions" used applicable. When there is a DDG bearing Mr Knott's name, I'll consider using his again in these matters. In the meantime..."I am not reciting these facts for the purpose of recriminations." WC...so sorry no bites...
Contractor Fife
Churchill states in same speech: "We did not make this war, we did not seek it.". Bush made this war, he sought it. Churchill states "We shall never descend to the German & Japanese level". You are incorrect here too. Bush authorized torture in direct conflict w/ the Geneva Conventions. We had warcrimes trials & convictions against German & Japanese soldiers who waterboarded soldiers. Churchill states "The enemies ranged against us ... have asked for total war. Let us make sure they get it." Iraq is an occupation, we police a civil war between multiple religous sects who cannot resolve a 1000 year old conflit. You need to give the Churchill quotes a rest, lest he continue to roll over in his grave.
Actually, On My Last Post
Whether on not they can be compared, was directed to a different comment than the one that that says the quotes don't fit..By definition "fit", "valid" & "compared" are different words. As to whether it fits or not, or even if it is valid...., that seems to be a matter of opinion, & probably would have to be taken up with wwww.winstonchurchill.org. After all, with the exception of saying where the quote came from, my previous post that insinuated that Churchill's quote may be applicable to 911, came entirely from their site. I looked up some quotes from Barney Fife & they all seemed like a poor fit,(in my opinion), but, never let it be said I wasn't open to a suggestion to improve my posts... I will include one at the end of this post.
"It's not a whim anymore if you put on clean underwear!" Barney Fife
whatever..lol
WWII Comparisons
Contractor - i realize they have been compared, but the comparison is still invalid. Your sad attempt at trying to compare it to 911 requires the ignoring of things called facts. Quoting your boy Shrub as to what Iraq had to do with 911: "Nothing". We were not attacked by Iraq, we preemptively invaded Iraq on hyped and false claims. In WWII, we were attacked by a country that we then declared war on. Quite the difference. You should be quoting Barney Fife instead of Churchill in order to give the admin their due.
Comparison aside
This war (Iraq) was started by the personal agenda of George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Karl Rove. At the time Bush's rating was about 65%. Their words left the people thinking we had no other choice and their lies were the truth. Their lies were just that nothing but lies. We went into this war ill prepared with no sense of direction or exit strategy. It has cost us billion of dollars and thousands of death's and severe wounding. After 911, Bush promised to go after whomever was responsible, which was Bin Laden. He chose not to, and went after Suddam. The insanity of this war has left people wondering, just why we are there to begin with and what this war is all about. Just what is this war all about? Over and over we hear Bush and Cheney say we are winning. Winning what? There is nothing to win in this war and the losses are stagering.
They can and have been compared
www.winstonchurchill.org .....Heading at the beginning of the speech {You do your worst, we'll do our best}..... "In reproducing Churchill's mighty tribute to the rescuers of London, we have done something we have never done to one of his speeches: edited it slightly to eliminate contemporary references. In this evergreen form it serves as commentary on a day that will live in infamy, 11 September 2001. The original can be found in Churchill¹s The Unrelenting Struggle (English edition 187; American edition 182) or in the Complete Speeches VI:6448"
United States Pacific Fleet
The United States Pacific Fleet was destroyed in Pearl Harbor by a surprise attack by the Empire of Japan, December 7, 1941. December 8, 1941 the United States waged war with Japan.
We were not attacked by Saddam Hussein, but by Bin Laden. 2 diffenert times in history and 2 different wars cannot be compared
ContractorVA - the WWII comparisons dont fit
There is no Japan or Germany here. Its multi-factioned religious groups fighting each other over a country drawn up by the brits and the french on a napkin. And to add to the complexities, there is now intra-shia sect fighting as well. There's nominal country loyalty at best... easily superseded by tribe loyalty. Its a multi-party civil war and Shrub put US troops into that mess to act as policemen in the hopes that they resolve their 1000 year-old differences so that we can arrive at what McCain calls "winning"... which is getting the Very-Iran-Friendly gubmint to somehow take hold.
I Will Concede
the part that we were "reluctant" doesn't fit very well...
No Half Measures... War Must Forrge Ahead With Full Fury
Winston said it best...still kind of fits today.."There shall be no halting, or half measures, there shall be no compromise, or parley. These gangs of bandits have sought to darken the light of the world; have sought to stand between the common people of all the lands and their march forward into their inheritance. They shall themselves be cast into the pit of death and shame, and only when the earth has been cleansed and purged of their crimes and their villainy shall we turn from the task which they have forced upon us, a task which we were reluctant to undertake, but which we shall now most faithfully and punctiliously discharge." Winston Churchill Dec. 30, 1941
Petraus
It appears that people in this country do not care/are not fully aware that they are allowing themselves to really be played. How can Americans keep suffering for Bush's war? Only he and his friends are making money and the rest of us are suffering.Petraus must have bumped his head when he says that the war is going well. Is it going well when we are losing young lives? Is it going well when our economy is going down hill faster than the time, is it going well when gas is $3.50 per gallon? Is it going well when stocks have to be sold for pennies? When will people of America open their eyes, protest Bush's vendatta and demand that funds be returned to the people who work and pay taxes. I do not know about anyone else, but it makes me sick to think that my tax dollars cannot help the elderly, who built this country to have a comfortable life. I do not want Americans to suffer because of one man's hatred. WAKE UP AMERICAN AND DEMAND AN END TO BUSH'S WAR!!
RE: Guess What
"Not too long from now liberals will have one of three morons to choose from when it's to vote"
Now we have 2 (liberals) candidates running for President, I don't know who the third one is. The Republicans have one choice to vote for and he's a hothead warmonger. Bush has stated he will turn this war over to the next president. Thanks alot! That will be Bush's exit stragety, because there is and never was an exit stragety in Iraq. What are we winning in Iraq? Nothing! What is there to win in Irag? Nothing! What have we lost in Iraq? Far more than I have space for to list here.
Craig
"Bottom line, this is way beyond one man (President Bush) causing this situation. It can only be placed squarely at the feet of 435 Congressmen/women. Then add the 100 Senators and other Federal government officials, etc., for not stepping up and waving the BS flag."
You are partially correct. Who did all the mouthing off about the need to go to war in Iraq? Bush and Cheney! They claimed to have "facts" for doing so. They presented their case of lies very well to our elected officials, and thus the vote was cased to go to war. Over the years these "facts" were nothing but lies, hype, and over-stating BS for their own political agenda. I can still see and hear Cheney and Bush on TV stating their cause and it makes my blood boil.
Bring on the Draft
Lets bring on the draft. After all this war is worth fighting is it not? At least that's what our leaders say. Hell, lets have another surge!! What do we have to lose!! If it's about oil, lets go get it. I think all the arm chair warmongers will get there chance. The Army will take you, and by the way if you thing going to the Navy or Airforce will save you from combat your wrong just ask some of the Navy guys about IA duty!! Yes lets do this to fight the terrorist (they can come right into Mexico right through our borders.
"verifiable facts, vice innuendo"
Give us the winning strategy Craig, in facts.
Give it a rest!
Calling any President "incompetent”, does nothing more than sets one political party against another or merely encapsulates your distaste for our current President…any of which belongs any of the political party hate websites.
Stick to facts. No political ideologies. Zero political leanings feelings against, or for, any “sitting” President whom has been elected by the outlines of the U.S. Constitution.
Any rant/rave based upon names/parties is readily evident that you should be posting your comments on the respective hate websites of (insert your political party here)
Stick to verifiable facts, vice innuendo.
Come on people! There are 435 members in the U.S Congress and 100 in the U.S. Senate.
There are 3 branches of our Government. There’s a local Government in your own respective community. Get involved and stop posting rants/raves here!
Guess what
Not too long from now liberals will have one of three morons to choose from when it's to vote. Boy, will they be an easy targets when it's time to blame them for something. They're make Bush look like a the America Hero.
incompetent bush's iraq strategy
Prior to his inauguration, incompetent Bush criticized Clinton and said we should have an exit strategy for extended military actions. As has been seen, Bush has no exit strategy. Incompetent Bush's only strategy for Iraq is to run out the clock and pass his losing war on to his successor.
George -
In response:
- I retired from active duty last July (as an E8) just 2 weeks shy 27 years of active military service. I've been in that Sandbox three times since this "war" started.
- Yes, our involvement in this has changed. Please-don’t blame the President. There are 435 Congressmen/women and 100 Senators to lay this on.
- IAW the U.S. Constitution, Section 1, Article 8, "Congress" declares war.
- Back in 2003, Congress neglected their Constitutional powers, thereby resigning themselves and the country to this current situation.
Bottom line, this is way beyond one man (President Bush) causing this situation. It can only be placed squarely at the feet of 435 Congressmen/women. Then add the 100 Senators and other Federal government officials, etc., for not stepping up and waving the BS flag.
RE:Gen Petraeus speaks the truth
Gen. Petraeus speaks exactly what his boss George Bush wants to hear and nothing more.
RE: Can't you see?
"By being in Iraq, we are keeping the terrorism over there and not here in our country. If we leave now, they will just regroup and we will have 9-11 all over again."
Because this darn war has been started we cannot just end it in a day it would take planning and time, but get one thing through your head the
terrorist are all ready here. Our military has been stretched to the max, our economy is failing, and we need our troops home to protect our own shores not the lazy Iraqi politicians who have done nothing to help secure their own country.
Gen Petraeus speaks the truth
My support of the Iraq war will be continued. I see real progress against the terrorist and I want the tip of the sword kept in Iraq to keep the monsters in their holes until we can get to them. I am glad to support additional troops if necessary to beat the terrorist. Keep up the great work troops!
RE: Your Comments
My comments are never canned. I do not support George Bush and I do not support this war of lies and deception. What is canned is comments like your and why we don't enlist etc. Why would I want to enlist? So I could die for George Bush? No thanks, why don't you?
RE: it wan't about al qaeda
"Bottom line - this had nothing to do with who attacked us on September 11, 2001.
It never did. It was always about terrorism."
The entire war and occupation of Iraq was about a lie.
It wasn't about Al Qaeda...
...it's STILL about the Global War on Terror. Iraq placed itself (read: Saddam Hussein) in this position once he/they invaded Kuwait. When Iraq was tossed out of Kuwait, it began side-stepping/thwarting,nose thumbing, etc., any inspector from any agency...a condition it agreed upon with coaltion forces as well as the U.N.
This began in the early 1990's- not in 2002/2003.
Iraq was known to possess WMD. Iraq had used them previously on numerous occassions against Iran and Kurds - just because the U.S. didn't find them doesn't necessarily mean they aren't hidden or never existed. Maybe they were all used against the Kurds, maybe not.
Bottom line - this had nothing to do with who attacked us on September 11, 2001.
It never did. It was always about terrorism.
Your comments are
Your comments are predictable. So many of you only comment with you anti this or anti that canned responce. Why dont you do something like run for politics are server you country. Actually do something. Liberal: The suspension or reality.
Petraeus
"Pressed by Virginia Sen. John Warner, Gen. David Petraeus, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said the war has been worth the American lives lost and the funds expended. More than 4,000 have died; and, according to some estimates, up to $1 trillion has been spent."
Petraeus said exactly what Bush, Cheney and probably McCain wanted him to say.
I'm glad they think it's worth it, I think they should be jailed because of it.
Light at the end
How many times during the 15 year Vietnam war did I hear from the generals and politicians; “I see light at the end of the tunnel”
SAMEO SAMO
Can't You See?
By being in Iraq, we are drawing them all in there with us. We can take care of them in one central location instead of having to seek them out in their own little countries, hidden in their own little caves and under their own little rocks. By being in Iraq, we are keeping the terrorism over there and not here in our country. If we leave now, they will just regroup and we will have 9-11 all over again.