NORFOLK
St. Louis has an arch. Seattle has a fish market. Savannah has a series of civic squares.
Downtowners say one thing that's missing in the city's urban revitalization is an iconic public gathering spot that gives Norfolk an unmistakable identity and sense of place.
Planners want to create that place around a light-rail station that will be built on the site of Kirn Memorial Library.
"What we're lacking downtown, really, is that identifier," said Cathy Coleman, president of Downtown Norfolk Council.
Preliminary drawings by Ray Gindroz, the city's urban design consultant, depict a busy public area with benches, covered pavilions, and coffee and newsstand
kiosks surrounding a light-rail station. He characterized it as the "heart" of the city.
The sketches were enthusiastically received last week at a meeting of the Downtown Norfolk Council, an agency that promotes downtown.
Some elements of the rendering - such as a tall clock tower - drew a mixed reaction.
Until now, the vision for the rail station has been an office tower built over a ground-level rail station. Frank Duke, city planning director, said the site isn't large enough to support an office building.
The station is the first downtown stop, after City Hall, on the light-rail line as it enters from the east. Light rail will extend from Newtown Road through downtown to the Eastern Virginia Medical Center. It's expected to open in early 2010.
"This is an opportunity to be the lobby for downtown, downtown's foyer, an entry point," Coleman said.
Duke said plans for the MacArthur station need to tie in the architecture and activities found in the MacArthur Memorial, MacArthur Center and the historic Seaboard building, where Kirn will be relocated.
Duke said the preliminary drawing may include too much. His department is presenting Gindroz's sketches in various forums to get feedback.
"We want to know what people like and don't like, then we can begin scaling this back," Duke said.
At the Downtown Norfolk Council event, suggestions included adding chess boards and a ticket/information center for cultural, entertainment and sports activities.
Kevin Murphy, president of the Downtown Civic League, likes the concept but would like to see more personality.
"Now it looks rather bland," he said. "You couldn't tell if it's Charlotte, North Carolina, or Norfolk, Virginia."
The station site is being developed as part of the city's 2020 master plan for downtown. Because the ideas are preliminary, there are no cost estimates. While Hampton Roads Transit's $232.1 million light-rail budget will pay for the station, the public square will be funded by the city.
The downtown master plan is being developed around light rail, Duke said.
"Light rail builds connections between downtown and the neighborhoods," he said. "And if you can't build those connections and linkages, then you can't sustain downtown."
A draft of the plan is expected in the fall, Duke said.
Debbie Messina, (757) 446-2588, debbie.messina@pilotonline.com
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get your facts straight
To those comparing Norfolk's light rail with Charlotte's & St. Louis- let's see...Charlotte's expected daily ridership was projected at 9,100, within 3 months of it's opening the daily ridership was averaging 14,000!! St. Loius, with a daily ridership of 73,200 (FY 2007) seems to be doing great with plans for 5 new lines. Lets not forget about Denver's daily ridership of 195,616, and Portland's 104,200. Look up the facts before you act like you know! This is the direction America is going, hurray for Norfolk city concilman Randy Wright for meeting the future needs of it's citizens!
by the way...taggers aren't thugs, a lot of them go to ODU and major in psychology and business...
Pork
I am all for the light rail but a glamorous station that needs to be remodeled here and there is pork. It should be of standard design and lasting materials. This is like VB's bridge over the Blvd. If you could make these utilitarian with clean lines they could be timeless and cost effective.
Tide Center
I just noticed someone left a comment suggesting an aquarium. Upon thinking about this, I think a very large outdoors aquarium, along with the park carrying a mermaid theme (such as the large mermaid also suggested by someone, with the train coming out of the mouth) would be a great idea. I know the area is small, but there would still be a smaller space to allow vendors to rent out and sell smaller items (fresh fruits, veg, etc). I hope that the space is given a modern feel to show the match between the older architecture of downtown and the newer developments. I look forward to the future developments as well as the chance to ride the tide to work each day! - Scott in Norfolk
Kirn Library
I've been to Kirn library twice - my first and last time. I brought my high school-age daughter down there on a Sunday afternoon to look up some reference material for a research paper. Most of the seats were occupied by homeless(?) people who were pretending to read newspapers. It was NOT an atmosphere where I felt my daughter would be safe.
Waterside flea market
The city would be better off to turn Waterside into a Fea Market Mall. People travel everywhere to visit them. The only problem with that is the City of Norfolk, won't allow any more Flea Markets or Thrift Stores and according to Randy Wright an Antique Shop is nothing more than a glorified Thrift Store. Norfolk use to have more Antiques Shops than any other city in VA, and should have been marketed as such. This city is filled with history, and the military influence brings in items from all over the world. It's a great place to find bargains, and could be an even better place without the likes of Wright. In todays economy people look for bargains, but if you are Councilman Wright, I guess you can afford the "TOP QUALITY" (duh) of Haynes. Try and resell that Haynes garbage and you won't get 10 cents on the thousand dollars. I've said before our Council does not have the educational background, creativity and general know-how to run a city like Norfolk. Yet, they are incharge of the purse strings! Have mercy!
New Library
When's the last time you've been to Kirn? It needs to be replaced...now!
light rail
Rhymes with "gonna fail". Now there's an identity for you. It won't be unique though. Everything Norfolk government does fails. I especially like Waterside, or should I say Waterside Flea Market/Thrift Store.
LAME
Lame. I want an aquarium, with a mermaid in it. Do that and I'll be impressed. I still think the whole thing is a move to force taxpayers to pay to build a new library.
waterside should be that iconic place!
How about tearing out the first floor of Waterside and making it into a Fish/Crab/Farmers Market where we can go get some fresh food. Move the five points market over there and add some blue crab/seafood. This would be perfect for people getting off of cruises and it serve as an iconic place on the water. Have it where there all all kinds of vendors selling street food from the surrounding area. Open the doors up and install ceiling fans instead of A/C. Right now it is to much like a mall and has no character. Get some local seafood or other restaurants ot open upstairs and provide outdoor seating upstairs so people can sit outside and watch the water. When there is a festival at Town Point Park the vendors can just move over there. Turn the Kirn site into a park like setting with maybe a newspaper stand and a coffee shop but have signs for waterside where the real action is at. The iconic place for a city fortunate to have a downtown on the water should be on the water!
WOW!
So this is what an icon looks like.
Build it
I say build it. It looks plain amazing. I can't wait to start riding in 2010. Considering how much people wine about gas prices, then they don't want to take steps to help their wallets?
Interesting to note St Louis and Charlotte
Both homes to the most recent national light rail debacles. St Louis - completed 15 months behind schedule and over $115M over budget. Plagued by lawsuits that were all lost. Director resigned in shame over the failures.
Charlotte - Completed behind schedule. Original budget - $227M. Final actual cost over $463M. Currently trying to figure out how to deal with the increased gridlock and pollution due to at grade street crossings. Residents up in arms over the noise issues.
This station will have its own identity as soon as the thug taggers climb off at that station and start "identifying" it.
Fitting
Why not erect a monument that shows dollar bills fluttering in the wind. That would be a fitting tribute to norfolk and the waste of $230 tax dollars for a silly choo-choo.
Wow - This Would Be Great for Downtown!
This could be a great inner city park - good for those working downtown and tourists coming to the city. The only downside are the homeless who frequent downtown and leave messes behind them and you know what I mean.
It will need plenty of green space, gardens and maps to the city attractions. Racks for bicycles and plenty of park benches are a must. A small amphitheater/pavilion would be a nice touch for kick-off's and functions. Cost is a factor so leave some things to be done later as funds permit. Naming rights could be sold for various parts of the park - like the Bank of America Gardens, Norfolk Southern Greenway or TowneBank "Tide" Terminal.
At least the bums will have
At least the bums will have a new place to hang out.
Bum: One that does not work. Homeless: One that works and lost thier home do to fire, act of god, ect.
WE already have icon place
I thought we already had that "icon public gathering spon with unmistakable identity and sense of place" and that was Nauicus with Battle Ship Wisconsi and the Waterside Park with the lone Sailor statue.
Isn't that where people gather for TGIF and to just stroll and watch the city activities. That is where we gathered for the Lighted Boat Parade when we had that great activity. Isn't it in Waterside Park where people gather for the Grand Illumination each year.
Wasn't the reason the proposed hotel next to Waterside Festival Marketplace caused such an uproar was because it was in OUR GATHERING PLACE?
Isn't Waterside Park "THE PLACE" everyone knows.
Does anyone really think a Light Rail Station away from any scenic view, next to a deteriorating urban mall and nestled among grungy office buildings can/will become that "iconic public gathering spot that gives Norfolk an unmistakable identity and sense of place"?
Naming Rights
Don't run up the cost and shaft the taXpayers.
Sell naming rights and build it with that money.
Too bad Royster Guano isn't available.
How about a beautiful statue
It could be in the likeness of Mayor Fraim with the City Council around him and the Mayor could have a citizen up in the air by the throat. The placard could say. “Welcome to Norfolk pay up or get out"
Looking at this sketch
It looks like an addition to Waterside. I con't see any creativity.
Another concept
Move the Waterside Marketplace building over there and kill two birds with one stone. Sell (not give) the waterfront property to the highest bidder and it will pay for the move. Tax dollars saved, new tax revenue and save $500K of City money currently keeping Waterside afloat. A win-win.
ICON
I support the thesis that it is not iconic enough. How about a giant mermaid, with the light rail running through it and spewing out the mouth towards Monticello?
Norfolk's town square
I like the idea of presenting a unique face at this site, but I truly hope that Norfolk uses financial restraint. During this recession, our residents are really hurting - many are losing our homes, and those of us who are hanging in there are struggling to put groceries on the table. To see the city propose grand plans is fine, but I hope the city is able to tighten its belt just as its citizens must.
Kathy in Ocean View