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Proposed Beach hotel would block radar, FAA says

Posted to: News Virginia Beach

VIRGINIA BEACH

If a proposed hotel near the convention center is more than 110 feet tall, it could create a radar blind spot off the coast, the Federal Aviation Administration has warned.

That could prevent authorities from spotting some types of incoming missiles or terrorist aircraft.

The FAA sent a letter to Virginia Beach in February objecting to the city's request that a 207-foot-tall hotel be permitted across the street from the center.

The letter said that the "loss in coverage over the water, due to man-made objects, is an unacceptable risk to the air defense mission."

A building that tall would block the FAA's long-range radar from seeing low-

altitude threats along the coast, according to the letter, obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request.

"They're probably worried about low-altitude aircrafts, like cruise missiles, going up the Chesapeake," said Ivan Oelrich, vice president of the strategic security program at the Federation of American Scientists, who has studied this type of long-range radar. "If I were a military planner, that's what I would consider, too."

Four companies have submitted plans to the city for a convention center headquarters hotel. Three of the developers have proposed building the hotel on 19th Street across from Parks Avenue, which the FAA has flagged as the site of a potential radar obstruction.

The companies' sketches show sleek, modern buildings that complement the glass and steel design of the new Virginia Beach Convention Center. Their proposed hotels also stretch up 200 to 207 feet.

A fourth developer wants to build the hotel just west of the convention center but has said he is willing to consider the more popular site.

Virginia Beach officials said they were surprised by the FAA's findings and are trying to understand the intricacies of radar.

Radar problems also were raised in the 1980s when the Beach was negotiating with the Navy over the height of the planned 34-story Pavilion Tower hotel, but most of the concern then dealt with problems pilots would face trying to fly around such a tall building. It was eventually scaled back to 12 stories.

City officials sent the FAA the coordinates of the proposed convention center hotel in December to make sure it didn't interfere with jet flight paths.

The aviation administration's review found that the obstruction to the flight path could be solved by scaling the building down to 180 feet. But the more critical issue was the radar, the FAA said in its reply.

The radar facility that would be affected, located at Oceana Naval Air Station, looks like a giant golf ball. Its mission is to help monitor the airspace along the Eastern Seaboard and track civilian and military aircraft some 200 miles from the shore.

Even Oceana officials didn't expect radar to pop up as a problem, according to e-mails between city staff.

"Every letter I've seen has talked about the flight path," said Stephen White, the Beach planning coordinator. "I've never seen a letter talking about the radar."

In fact, the city had initially wanted the hotel built west of the convention center and had submitted those coordinates, with a possible height of 260 feet, to the FAA. On that site, 100 feet away from the Parks Avenue location, the FAA indicated last summer that the only obstacle was to the flight path and suggested that the city reduce the height to 180 feet.

Donna O'Neill, an obstruction evaluation specialist for the FAA, said federal officials reviewed both sites for any obstructions to long-range radar and only found the problem with the location across from the convention center.

That site is particularly troublesome because the FAA's overlapping radar facility in New Jersey wouldn't be able to fill in what is blocked at lower altitudes by the proposed hotel.

The city has the option of appealing the FAA's decision, O'Neill said, adding: "We're still working on this case."

Beach officials will decide how to respond to the FAA notice after the development authority chooses a headquarters hotel proposal later this year, said Steve Herbert, the city's chief development officer.

There may be a way to shift the hotel so it avoids the radar signal or build it so that it's wide instead of tall, Herbert said.

"It's not anything that we feel that we can't work around," Herbert said. "The design of the building is more important than pure height."

If the developer the city selects says it can't build the hotel without making it tall, city officials may consider appealing the FAA's decision, Herbert said.

Garfield Traub Development is one of the three companies vying to build the hotel across from the convention center.

Despite the radar problems, the site is the best location for the hotel because it's closer to the Oceanfront, said Steve Moffett, president of Garfield Traub's hospitality division.

"I don't think the height is going to be an issue," Moffett said. "We'll comply with whatever the restrictions."

Deirdre Fernandes, (757) 222-5121, deirdre.fernandes@pilotonline.com

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Height of Buildings

The FAA knows what they are talking about. I don't understand how the council could ignore their advice and put us in "harms way". I don't believe Virginia Beach needs any more hotels and if so, they don't need to be so high. I think the Westin is an eyesore. It used to be a really nice area, now it looks like New York City. I think it is just greed and all that is important is the money. I don't think the oceanfront is all that beautiful. There is nothing for a family to do there, you have to get in a car to go anywhere. Take some advice from Myrtle Beach and Ocean City. They are fun places to go.

Radar non factor

Evidently Flip didn't understand my post to respond coherently. I'll type slowly so you he understands. The US is monitored by a blanket of radar both military and civilian so that no one radar system would be relied on. Naval ships, Air traffic control, Air Force recon and so on. I guess the so called threat would have to fly in the shadow of this building in order go undetected then. And yes, score one for Flip who probably didn't know the answer to the length of territorial waters until he googled it. Congrats! The argument was that this radar system would detect hostile threats and my point was a submarine missile launch from close by would render that radar ineffective. Which gets back to my argument that several radar systems are used to monitor our shores to detect threats well in advanced. That's why the Navy never raised the issue. Just keep wearing your tin foil hat Flip. The Hotel project should proceed.

Get your facts straight!

Glenn.man - Maybe you should do your research before you post things you don't know about. The territorial sea extends for 12 nautical miles, and after that there's the contiguous zone and exclusive economic zone. An submarine would be blown out of the water by the time it got within 12 nautical miles of Virginia's shoreline, so I don't think you really need to worry about that.

Please keep in mind that the radar facility tracks civilian aircraft as well! Read the article before you start flipping out about the Navy!

RE: MTMSR

Knowing the difference between government agencies and how they "really interlink" and "who" is responsible for what "mission" and "who" is "really using what" for "which purpose" is the key here MTMSR!!!! Now go back to being a child and do some more name calling!!!

no money left to spend

I understand the budget is tight with no money left to spend. I'll be watching to see if money magicly appears for this and other projects. If it does, I'll be first in line to support replacing City Council members.

Are you kidding me?

The Navy can't pick up a missile or enemy aircraft until it is nearly to VB?

That makes me feel safe.

More objections because of jets

I dont know why the city doesnt just turn the running of the city over to the Navy. The city has to ask "mother may I" before they do anything any more. If the Navy dosnt like it they might just take their jets and go home.

I agree

Even though this has nothing to do with the Navy I still say move them to NC. I've had enough with them; let some other town do their patriotic duty.

One Would Think...

..that with a stumbling economy, rising fuel prices, past BRAC issues and development issues, why would Myer Lansky and her "band" even be proposing this! Does VB really need another hotel?? Well, I guess the final "back room" politics will go through and when the whole crew is voted out, they will collect there money. Course, Myera and cohorts will not even dare to live here. They have plans for all that money..and it doesn't include living in the traffic congested, high tax, urban sprawl "matchbox ghettos" that is the beautiful and serene Virginia Beach!

PLEASE READ AGAIN

Please read the article again....the Radar belong as well as the objections came from the "FAA" and not the Navy. The radar is located on the Navy base because it's federal property and no lease or purchase of land was reqired. By the way, that picture must be several years old.

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