NORFOLK
If some city leaders get their way, Waterside, the aging waterfront attraction that helped spark the revitalization of downtown, might be razed to make room for a luxury hotel, condos or perhaps an office tower.
What happens to the site, which features sweeping views of ships plying the Elizabeth River and of downtown Portsmouth, will be one of the most important decisions this council makes, Councilman Barclay C. Winn said.
"It's the most valuable piece of real estate in the city," said Councilman Paul R. Riddick, who supports tearing down the facility.
Waterside's future could be decided by the fall with help from the community and perhaps a consultant, city leaders said. The council likely will hold a special meeting this summer to discuss the issue.
Built in 1983 in place of abandoned warehouses and rubble-strewn parking lots, the marketplace helped transform downtown, and once was one of the area's most popular shopping and dining destinations. Today, with nearby MacArthur Center and dozens of eateries and nightspots on Granby Street, the facility has struggled.
When it opened on June 1, 1983, nearly 100,000 curious shoppers ventured inside to check out Phillips Waterside seafood restaurant, Crabtree & Evelyn, Hofheimer's Shoes 'N' Such, Scantastic and the Fudgery, where fudge was cooked and molded in the center of the food court.
Nearly all of the original tenants have left. Sales have fallen, and although the facility remains 97 percent leased, many spaces in the prominent food court are empty. Leases for many of the facility's largest tenants will end in 2010.
Waterside should be closed in 2010, Vice Mayor Anthony L. Burfoot said.
Burfoot said he sees outdoor shops on the site, similar to those in Atlantic City, with high-rise condominiums. Other council members have talked about a five-star hotel, a tall office building or a condominium project.
"I don't think we want a party place," Burfoot said.
City Manager Regina V.K. Williams said the site should continue to provide public access to the waterfront and that any future development should blend with its surroundings, which include the Sheraton Waterside Hotel and Town Point Park.
Over the years, Waterside has experienced its share of refurbishment.
It was expanded in 1990 to make way for more retail space. Nine years later, because of the opening of MacArthur Center, much of the new retail space became nightclubs. Waterside quickly became a magnet for young adults seeking to dance and drink.
But as more restaurants have opened along Granby Street and expanded the opportunities for nightlife, they have drawn customers from Waterside.
Burfoot said city leaders need to decide Waterside's future soon so the businesses there can relocate nearby. Besides Jillian's, Outback Steakhouse, Hooters and Joe's Crab Shack, among other chain restaurants, the marketplace also has retail businesses such as All About Virginia and More and The City Market.
"We want to keep business that's on the books in the city," he said.
City officials also are grappling with financial problems at Waterside. The city's housing authority purchased the marketplace in 1999 from a private owner. Norfolk leaders said they would eventually sell it to another private owner. That sale has never taken place.
City assessor Deborah Bunn said the land at Waterside is valued at nearly $8.5 million, which she said is likely close to its market value. The property currently nets the city more than $2 million in direct taxes a year, but sales have been declining, said Shurl Montgomery, executive director of the Norfolk Redevelopment and Housing Authority, which runs the facility.
This year, Waterside will need more than the $850,000 annual payment the city currently gives to the housing authority to operate the facility. The authority has asked the city for another $240,000 this fiscal year, which ends next month, and will need an additional $300,000 or more next fiscal year, which begins in July, he said.
However, Mayor Paul Fraim said the city will need to spend more than that. The facility needs a new paint job and expanded lighting just as a start, he said.
Waterside also has $5.7 million in debt from its expansion, which the city will have to pay off if it closes.
Fraim cautioned that no decision has been made to tear down the facility.
"It's still 97 percent leased," he said.
He said it's possible Waterside could be refurbished and its purpose redefined as it was nearly a decade ago.
"We need to keep all options on the table," he said. "And we need to keep the present tenants in mind."
Harry Minium, (757) 446-2371, harry.minium@pilotonline.com
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Waterside
Although I am no longer a resident, I am a native of Norfolk. I remember when they built Waterside, and I thought it was just beautiful. The city made a mistake, no big surprise there, when they decided to let the bars take over. Waterside was supposed to be a marketplace with specialized shops and restaurants, not a meat market. I think they need to spend a little to get the most out of the property and make the most of the location. Norfolk needs a good plan and a PR person to turn around this decline in business. There are so many memories I have of just shopping, having lunch or dinner, watching the river, watching people, or taking in some entertainment on the stage area near the food court. During Harborfest, I always went back and forth from Waterside to Town Point Park, it was an all day thing to stay and shop or hang out on the water front enjoying the bands and other attractions. Norfolk has squandered the oportunity it was given when they took over the property. Waterside could be great again, it just needs the effort and perhaps a little money to be put forth. What Norfolk does not need is another condo to be put up. The average citizen probably could not afford to l
turn the waterside
turn the waterside marketplace into an aquarium, expand the marina and maybe incorporate and open air market.
I say tear it down!
I would like to see something spectacular in it's place! I would prefer a signature high-rise rising 600 feet that will be recognized around the world! As for Waterside, why not incorporate an entertainment complex into the announced HRT development and turn it into a regional icon with new vendors and perhaps a hard-rock cafe. Norfolk needs a new image and should look to shed it's conservative image! Our office towers and hotels seem stuck in a time warp while other cities look modern and creative. For those of you who want to know where the future lies for this region, check out urbanplanet.org/forums/virginia if you want to know what the younger generation wants for this region!
Gentlemans club
Turn it into a high end city run gentlemens club. Take 50% of each girls "take" as taxes. Use the influx of funds to give to private developers to build high end projects downtown and to build 47 more miles of light rail. Lower the property tax rate. Problem solved.
tvpilot05 made a good point that may have been lost
in the large number of talking points here. I think it bears repeating: "The idea of tearing down a 25-year-old building is insane, esp. when that's the one thing that sticks out when you see a picture of the Norfolk skyline."
When I think St. Louis I see the Arch in my minds eye.
Seattle the Space Needle.
Norfolk- WATERSIDE
I only ask that everyone reflect on this for a few minutes, then re-think what to best do with this property
What Good Is A Casino..Pt.2 or 3
How about a bare minimum of 30,000 "above average" wages? Now, you need local business to support the casino and riverboat:HVAC, network, security, grounds,legal. Check out the history of the CT casino's-Foxwoods and the newer Mohegan Sun! Always turned a profit AND kept people working, as well as earmarking funds for the entire state...such as schools (schools in CT have a better infrastructure due to funds dispersed by way of the casino from the state)The present criminals in office are only looking out for themselves and the developers. Personally, I don't think any one of them could manage walking and chewing gum at the same time. Don't let them do this to a jewel of Norfolk. Don't believe Fraim, Riddix (smiles at sp error) or the high queen Regina! Citizens of Norfolk, turn your back on this and Waterside will be stolen from you and your children! Casino, Hotel & Riverboat!!!!!
Extend the park
Develope inland and leave the waterfront the park. We are talking about attracting people to Norfolk .Further the park and you will see the good that perpetuates in the real-eastate that is presently in development
It's not dead yet.
I think it's a little premature to decide waterside is a failure and remove the building. It's a nice building, well placed with a parking garage and a safe walk way to the other side. It's got great views. With all the recent changes in Norfolk I think it's focus just needs to be changed. We have the new cruise ship dock within walking distance. We have town point park next door with events all summer. It has a separate drive in front that would be perfect for buses to unload at and not block traffic. It is an easy walk from those new condo's to. On the other hand every time I enter the building I get a closed in feeling instead of the light open one I expect from the outer views. I think a revamping of the interior as well as the services will quickly make this a very long term profitable destination.
Look at other successful developments
I just moved here from Atlanta, so I know I still have a lot to learn about what works in this area, but I think it's always a good idea to look at what is working in other parts of the country while taking into account the uniqueness of the area. Atlantic Station in Atlanta, GA is a prime example of what can be done with a parcel of valuable land that is sitting around creating no value. Like Waterside, it was a place for old warehouses and a dumping ground. It is now one of the most popular "Live-Work-Play" developments in the country. It has something for everyone: High rise condos, loft condos, upscale hotel, shopping, movie theater, etc. It hosts cultural events, Beach volleyball, etc. It has become the new center of Atlanta. (http://www.atlanticstation.com/home.php). Similiar developments are popping up all over Atlanta. I think something like that blended with the uniqueness of this part of the country (still learning about that) would be a great addition to Norfolk. It's time to stop talking about it and do it. The rest of the country is leaving Hampton Roads behind in regards to development.
...continued...
So, from the Pagoda over to Waterside could be an amazing destination for both tourists, boaters, and locals! GOOD LUCK NORFOLK
Waterside
First of all, Norfolk did not build Waterside. It was built by the same developer who created Quincy Market in Boston and Harbor Place in Baltimore. The original owners weren't making money and Norfolk bought the place to "save it." I think we need to ask ourselves why it didn't work in the first place (before Norfolk took over). I agree that there are several options. (1) Go back to the "Original Waterside" atmosphere. It still seems to work in places like NYC, Baltimore, and New Orleans. (2) The Open-air type market several have mentioned (like a mini- Chelsea Market with fresh meats, bakeries, crab-cake vendors, produce, international cuisine). I actually wrote a very long post about what this could be like about a month ago when it was first mentioned that the city wanted to think about what to do with Waterside. or (3) something like Quincy market (basically a combo of the two above). There is a planned big renovation of Town Point Park, so a Waterside renovation would fit in with that nicely! Further, Nauticus has a BIG PLANS to give itself an extreme makeover (including allowing touring the inside of the Wisconsin). So, from the Pagoda over to Waterside could be
Oh I'd really love a lofty million dollar condo view
Of the BAE Shipyard drydock or the Metro Machine drydock. Now that's what you call a view, the backend of boats being worked on 24/7! How unimaginative can any one group be. Time for some fresh thinkers and thinking.
Simply stated
Simply stated we need Waterside, the boat ramps and Townpoint Park. I don't care if the land is valued at $8.5 million, but it would be a complete and total mistake to turn it into anything other than what it is. The problem with Waterside revenue is the current renters and the kind of business being operated there. The original Waterside was the absolute BEST. I worked for the city at that time and had a close working relationship with Waterside. The place was a blast! It was fun, it was entertaining, and it brought in tourist dollars. Festevents had events going on in the park, and there was always something exciting going on. The energy being projected was AWESOME! What happened to Waterside? The city leaders need to look at what brought Waterside to it's current problem and FIX IT. It goes with exactly what I've been saying about our city leaders: they do not have the education, imigination and foresight to be in the "leading" positing they are in. SAVE WATERSIDE!
Waterside Condo/Granby Towers
Does anyone see how the two are familiar. The city can't even manage to get that project done other than to create a big hole in downtown and now they want to build office spaces or condos? Fraim, Riddick and cast needs to wake up and realize there are other parts of Norfolk that needs attention. Leave Waterside alone. Maybe if we are lucky nothing will happen and when we vote Fraim out of office we will get a Mayor who will understand Norfolk goes beyond downtown. Yeah I would be interested in helping on a petition not that city council pays attention to those either.
waterside
What to do with Waterside: Why not take a lesson from other cities that have successfully opened large public markets. A place where people can get fresh meat, fresh baked goods and even tastes of food. European and Asian nations have such markets in the open air and in huge buildings. Several of our Citites have also utilized the concept and enjoy the profits and camaraderie of such places. I am not referring to the schlocky tourist traps such as in Savannah and Atlanta. If one were to visit Los Angeles, Seattle or San Francisco, they would see bustling, clean and well lighted markets for the residents and touists.The Waterside building is large, convenient and in a very lovely setting. What more could we ask than to not only have people congregate and meet their neighbors and frends but to be able to get all the fresh fruits, vegetables and fresh baked bread in very desirable setting.
Wait a minute...
Wasn't Waterside supposed to be part of Norfolk's grand scheme (in early-80s terms) to revitalize the downtown area? The idea of tearing down a 25-year-old building is insane, esp. when that's the one thing that sticks out when you see a picture of the Norfolk skyline.
One of these days, city council will pull their heads out their rear ends and get off this luxury condo kick. You'd think the big concrete hole sitting on Brambleton Ave (Granby Tower).
I like the idea of an open-air market, or keep the cluster of restaurants. Lose the nightclubs since they don't belong. In fact, keep the clubs on Granby, keep the restaurants at Waterside, that way, you have two different crowds and two different atmospheres. Bring back more souvenir stores a la the original Waterside and Pier 17 in New York.
Wouldn't hurt to keep later hours on your restaurants though.
Airport Bum
We need one of those places in Waterside like the one at Jax landing that has the 200 "adult slurpees"...heheheheh
Make mine Lynchburg Lemonade
Nothing downtown
There is nothing downtown to generate tourist dollars. Once you've seen the Wisconsin, you've seen it and don't go back. Not much to Nauticus and in 2009 cruise ships will cut back. From what I've read everyone agrees Waterside should not be torn down, what it should be like seems to differ. If the city had kept Waterside as it was when it was first built it would have been a constant influx of tourism. To save Waterside start writing your city council NOW. Frame said towday it would be a couple years before anything would be done. I don't believe him nor do I trust any of them. Please write the city manager and the city council. Anyone up for a petition to save Waterside? Can't the people have something that isn't a hotel or overpriced condo?
Waterside
Think Central Park. Central Park occupies hundreds of acres of the most prime real estate in Manhattan -- but what would New York City be without Central Park? The area around Waterside on the Elizabeth River is and should be our Central Park. Once desecrated with condos, hotels, etc., where would the heart of our city be? New York City spends a great deal of tax money on Central Park and counts it as well-spent. Surely Norfolk can forego yet more private construction projects for a wealthy few to maintain a precious cityspace for all of us.
Take a look at Jax Landing on the ineternet.
I can see where Norfolk almost copied the design of it to build Waterside. I can also remember spending evenings at Waterside with co-workers and eating at Phillips or one of the other restaurants or food court and then getting fudge or ice cream and going out and sitting by the water. There were plenty of nice small specialty shops and entertainment from time to time. There was also Friday after work parties at Town Point park. Waterside was a great place for couples, singles and families. Then Norfolk decided to make the leases so high that no shop could afford to stay there except for the meat market bars. The more night clubs they added the more trouble came there and the less families and couples. Norfolk build it knowing and admitting up front that they would be taking a loss, but that the loss would be made up by the tax dollars bought in by the attraction to the area. Now city council wants it torn down and build another up-scale high-rise tax subsidized developers project. Change Waterside back to the way it was sold off to the citizens to start off with. Make it like Jax Landing and it will be a place all citizens can go, not just the wealthy.