Want more tourism dollars? Think year-round, Beach officials say

The Boo birds just can't stop their whining and criticism even in the face of an incredibly successful development that has provided up scale retail for visitors and residents alike, parking for those who want to use the retail or just the beach, a park available for simply relaxing, watching entertainment, kicking a ball around, or even church services, and of course a convention grade hotel that compliments our new convention center and of course collects meal taxes, room taxes, and retail sales taxes and sends them directly to the city. Further, the hotel provides employment and hires vendors so it is a flourishing business that contributes to the fiscal dividend provided by the resort. Now what is wrong with that picture? Well, if you are a boo bird, the very success of the venture is what is wrong. These protestors root for failure because they have not one clue about the need for this city to maintain its economic competitiveness, nor do they value the reduced tax rates we value as recipients of the dividend.

A small ocean front park that plays music for the 31st hotel. What a deal. A parking garage that came in at over $30K for each space but the hotel absorbs over half the spaces so good luck finding a 30K spot. A hotel that, through hotel taxes, will not pay for the taxpayers portion of it for over 20 years, maybe. Now the same idiots that built that hotel, that try to claim the sand behind it as theirs, want the city to "donate" more for a 31st St expansion. All of this hoopla about what tax revenue that tourism brings in and the jobs that it creates is just obfuscation by those that benefit from more development. We the citizens do not gain squat from the oceanfront, no matter what the "low tax rate" blowhards try to pitch. Nothing sizes up this lie more than seeing the "increase" in real estate tax each year and NO return on investment. Unless of course you think that the opportunity to buy a $10 DQ snowcone is somehow a benefit.

Are you kidding me?

Our police department is grossly understaffed.....

MOST of our Fire Department apparatus leave the Station with THREE firefighters on them in spite of a promise made by Council YEARS AGO to use monies set aside to hire these folks. The Council obviously used the money for something else......LOL!
Council approved buying radios, the idiots at ComIT bought the wrong ones and now they think throwing waterproof microphones at the wrong radios is the answer...... DUH!

Our system of EMS delivery relies on a ever dwindling staff of volunteers to drive the ambulances that get you to the hospital..... Less volunteers mean LONGER waits for an ambulance.

The latest of our City's hilarious gestures is where I read they're planning to build a SIX foot wide sidewalk over on West Great Neck Road.

"the highest degree of public services"? Virginia Beach's mass transit is nothing compared to Norfolk's. (Newport News has better.)

I agree with you and Rose on the Redskins: pay a few million to pervert Sportsplex?!? It's primarily a soccer pitch, it's potential never realized due to some awful Mariners ownership groups.

As for Reid, he and his ilk demonize the Resort Area to keep the cultists angry, not wanting people to realize they have no constructive and realistic solutions of their own.

Thanks Rose for your support on that one issue. I think you are absolutely correct. In regard to Greenmun's predictable criticism of investing in our resort, he would cut off his nose to spite his face; that is, the fiscal dividend we get from resort activities, that is, the profit after expenses are deducted from revenue, makes the resort a positive benefit for our local economy and for our city government. Reid, espousing a libertarian point of view, would cut all support of resort infrastructure based upon his ideological persuasion, not any knowledge of the return on investment that comes to the city coffers. Fact is, he could care less. In fact, even though for some reason he supported the Town Center PPV, he reversed position and condemned the 31st PPV even though we now have a park, a parking garage available to citizens from all over the city, resort retail contributing to our tax base, and convention hotel that contributes hotel, meal, and retail taxes directly to the city. But for Reid, ideology trumps fiscal sense.

It would be nice if City Officials would start to acknowledge the primary economic engine and major tax payer in Virginia Beach. They are the folks who reside in 985 neighborhoods and account for revenues that makes up 80+% of the City's tax base. Indeed, over 165,000 households make up almost 87% of the real estate tax and reside in over 138,000 homes. Their property values have grown by over 182% since 2000. Assessments grew from $16.8 billion to over $48 billion in FY 2008. At .89/$100, that puts a staggering $427 million in real estate tax revenue in the City General Fund. In contrast, the oceanfront hotels places $4,445,000 of real estate taxes in the General Fund, however, they also receive a significant amount of dedicated revenue that leaves the General Fund. Hotels do provide an important function in this or any city but they are not the primary benefactor that provides most of the tax revenue in this City.

As Reid Greenman stated, tourist data should be confined to paid overnight stays at hotels. Those who are day visitor or travel 50 miles are less should not be part of the income compilation. Alternatively, nor should the massive contingency of family and friends

Casinos doesn't create crime or homelessness! Actually, Virginia Beach will probably be the safest city because they do not have those problems beforehand. I am sure that Las Vegas and Atlantic City had problems way before the casinos so you can't blame the problems on gaming. Besides, becoming more upscale will only it safer in the long run because it will be way too expensive to live there unless you have some serious loot! Think of all the vacation packages that could be sold and the impact that it would have on neighboring cities such as Norfolk. There would be a great demand for hotel rooms in all the cities and you would see more spin off effects for entertainment and restaurants. I see more positive than negative here!

Gee, 435,000 residents live here. The City counts their family and friends coming from out of town as "visitors" and then attempts to claims that somehow blowing hundreds ofmillions of our tax dollars on the oceanfront and the CVD staff that taxpayer pay for that benefit mostly the Oceanfront developers and businesses is what creates the estimated "ROI". Please. But hey, at least Mike Barrett explained one thing clearly - the "ROI" for the taxpayers is being spent to pay for the oceanfront's $300M Convention Center - and soon, a Dome Site Entertainment venue - along with a new hotel for the Convention Center -and the 31st Street hotel the voters rejected in may 2000.

Mike Barrett and I actually agree on one thing (I think this is the first ever) he is right about the Red Skins being a waste of money. Other than that everything else he said is wrong! LOL! Hey! I said a day to mark, I didn't say a day of miracles.

Well Bill, it certainly is a complex issue with multiple variables. That said, we have the lowest tax rate in the region, and the highest degree of public services. Now the reason for that is also complex, but the contribution of the visitor industry is obvious. Of course, the "profit" would have been much higher, hence real estate taxes and meal taxes lower, if we had not taken on the debt service of the new convention center, but that is a very short sighted view. Fact is, if we want to stay competitive ove the long term, we need to invest a portion of our profit from the visitor industry back into new facilities and infrastructure. So on balance, and I have seen the downside of not investing, we are way ahead of the curve and our low tax rate and high service level are the most obvious indications of that fact.

I want more visitors, jobs for public safety and for my taxes to drop because of the increase in visitors. I seem to have all of those things except for the return on my investment at the oceanfront.

My taxes have gone up every year that we have invested in the oceanfront. If we get that great return on our investment then the taxpayers should see it and feel it in their pockets. Instead we keep reinvesting our return which leads to more investment and zero return in my pocket or budget... This is investing in a bank and year after year, they say "no dividend" because we have to expand. Sooner or later I'm taking my money to a different bank.

Mike: I'm with you once I see and feel my budget and pocketbook getting a return for my money. For 23 years I've invested, when is payday?

Tourism creates jobs… This is true, minimum wage jobs, jobs for high school and college students. How about VB work on creating an environment where jobs don't just include waiter, maid, tourist trap cashier, tour boat driver, receptionist, bus (trolley) driver, life guard and so on. I can't honestly think of one high-end job tourism creates. I mean maybe if you work hard and long enough you can become a hotel or a restaurant manager but that’s about the limit, middle class dead end.

Why do we want to attract more visitors? Well, each out of towm visitor pays about $10/visitor/day in taxes that flow directly into the city's coffers. That is quite an incentive, and the industry itself clearly creates jobs and income for the city as well. I heard the Mayor on the radio on Wednesday gushing about the Redskins. Of course, that event generates about 1,500 room nights. The Sand Soccer event in a few weeks will create over 8,000 room nights, the rock 'n Roll half marathon about 15,000 room nights, and the Boardwalk Art Show close to 5,000 room nights And we have to pay for the Redskins to come here so they can market their team so we will travel to DC to spend our money there? What is wrong with this picture? Forget the Redskins and focus on participatory sporting events that bring families to the city to enjoy our lifestyle. It is more cost effective, celebrates the right values, and does not provide more income into the pockets of incredibly wealthy NFL owners and players.

Give the whole mobster, politician correlation a rest, it is lame. As far as homeless in VB, comparing that to AC is ridiculous; the ratio is probably 100/1. People complain way to much about the beach, 90% of the American population doesn’t live near a coast with accessible beaches and warm enough water to bath in… Be happy with what you got. A casino is a quick “fix” to an area that doesn’t even need it and in the long run would ruin the area even more the you think it already is…

Crime is already here..gangs are here, bums and streetpeople are already here..hello...what world are YOU living in...and you say we need no more vices to play to us...well...let me see..do you play the lottery with the 7.1 million in one chance to win...how ludicrous...do you play ponies at the OTB centers all around Virginia?
Do you walk out your front door and hope you come back alive?
Everything in life is a gamble..keep them blinders on..Atlantic City was created BECAUSE of the downturn and the crime and mess up there..I know, I came from there 24 years ago and it was slum city BEFORE the casinos came with their tax dollars..that beach can beat his one hands down anyday...
You claim of organized crime involved in gambling...hello....isn't politicians organized criminals in their own?? They steal and rob taxpayers everyday..and push a government game called the lottery on the public claiming it pays for roads and schools..well..I see no new roads or schools..do you?

"homelessness, unemployment, welfare, alcoholism, drug dealers"

Wake up call: you have that now! Anyone care to go to the casinos in CT? The areas around Foxwoods and the Mohegan Sun are quite beautiful and the schools have an influx of cash. Not like VB though! Hiring freeze, IT Com in need of overhaul, no money for schools but a new 31st project?
As to Virginia obstructing a casino on the "christian" factor, your right. If the city of VB and its present criminals can't control something like that, they vote no or steer public opinion away from a casino. You see, they know that they would never be able to control that much money themselves. They have a pretty good racket going with developers and hotels and such. Someone used the "Mafia"? You mean a "controlling group that allows or curtails ANY legal business for illicit gains and profits"? I guess some of you have had the blinders on for the last 15 years or so!

I don't believe that casinos are the answer, but in regards to Biloxi: A good chunk of the casino money there actually remains within the city/county the casino is in. This is why the 3 coastal counties, including Hancock County (Casino Magic in Bay St. Louis, and future plans for a Trump casino) have much better schools than the rest of the state. Hancock High School, for example, has a great Science and Technology Center and was able to provide laptop computers to all of its 1200 students. The casinos do seem to be working there, at least.

I lived my entire life in Va. Beach. I moved away 4 years ago due to the ridiculous rise in home prices. I laugh when I see what the prices are now! That aside, Va. Beach has always been a great place to raise a family and one day I hope to come back. They always tried to keep the sleaze out and keep the beach area family friendly and I think that's a good thing. Does anyone remember the Greek Fest fiasco in 1990 or 91? Casinos will only raise crime and bring in trash. I don't ever want to see a commercial that says, "what happens in Va. Beach stays in Va. Beach."

4 cops on each street corner looking in your car window, checking inside your cooler on the beach, no radios etc etc etc. Until the communist regime and non government influence (CBN) is removed Va Beach will never succeed as a place to have fun.
I quit going to Va Beach after being mistreated as a sailor in 1981. I have purchased several homes since then with Va Beach being a no go zone.

A theme park where NAS Oceana is now would be perfect:

Go to flickr.com and search for: jerrydoughnut oceana

Look at the original size image.

Finally some truth and logic!

the issue has been studied and investigated locally and the consenses is;
the price for this vice is way too high for any community. The quality of life has deteriorated in all areas that host gambling including reno and vegas. So, before you start banging the casino drum, educate yourselves as to the pitfalls of hosting such institutions in the long term.Here is a truism; Riverboat gambling arrived in Biloxi, the residents were ecstatic, $$ they were promised $$. Not 2 years later, vice crimes, burglaries, crime increased 120% and the $$ wasn't enough to hire the necessary law enforcement personnel, taxes were increased, property values diminished and suicides increased. The casino money dosen't stay in the locality,the gambled money is sent to the foreign gambling headquarters. I invite everyone to circle the neighborhoods that border the casino locales. I will get a pawnshop license the same day casino gambling is ever legalized in this area because it's a sure pay off. Study this issue please

Have any of you ever been to Atlantic City? That place is disgusting. The boardwalk is filled with homeless and drug dealers. The surrounding "resort area" is just as dangerous as Iraq. I don’t have and "scientific proof" but I think it is safe to say the casinos have a lot to do with this. I love blackjack but I don’t think I would want a casino in my back yard. The distance makes gambling an occasional "special" event. If it was at the oceanfront you would see a drastic increase in homelessness, unemployment, welfare, alcoholism, drug dealers and all the other demons that gambling can bring. Not to mention the mobsters, if you don’t think AC is controlled be some sort of mafia you are kidding yourself.

In the great Commonwealth of Virginia, we are too moral to run gambling operations (unless it's run by the government, of course). Give me a break.

Maybe if the local governments would stop spending so much on their pet projects or the projects of their developer buddies and relatives, the cities wouldn't need so much additional revenue. OH! How dare I say that!

If ever there was a state that needs the revenue, it's Virginia! It's time to look beyond the moral values of a few and explore the possibilities and impact that the gaming industry will have on this region.

Here's a clue to those that have no idea how to keep them coming...

Picture this: Summer....beach clad bathers lying in the sun...sun sets...cold creeps in (fall arrives)...limos driving up to the front entrance of casinos with decked out patrons going to a posh dinners, then a show...sun sets from the dining room which glows a warm red yellow through the restauraunt...downstairs...

Bells and machines jangling, jingling...beckoning...a mosey down to toss a few bones..back to the room for a romantic tryst...

If you want Virginia to actually be for lovers...this would be an ideal place for casinos...Everyone that leaves Virginia to go up to Delaware and New Jersey to spend their dollars are having just this kind of treatment..here..you get sand, dirt and garbage...then you get drunk and arrested..hello??

The great Myrtle Beach versus Virginia Beach debate, woo hoo!
Long time VB local here, been around the world and played on beaches from Bali to Malibu, yeah, can't say VB has much to offer.
And yes, VB cops are meaner to drunk Marines! I don't know why!

If you want to be a "resort" area, make sure your city's personell are polite and friendly enough to intice someone to plan a repeat visit. Strong arm and "letter of the law" should only be used for hard core, dangerous or repeated crimes (such as DUI or same problem same person over again). You might want to read BCAT Graham's post to Kerry's article.

There you will see where one of VAB's Blue Knights decided not to use (a quote from BCAT GRAHAM) "We Cops have what is called Discretion. In other words we can work within the Spirit of the Law, and not be totally constrained by the Letter of the Law. That is why More than a FEW Virginia Beach Police Officers have recieved warnings from me for both traffic infractions and Class 1's over the past few years." If anyone amoung us is deserving of a break, our men and women in uniform are the ones. I know first hand that you cannot count on PD to stop and help you if needed. I also know that of the times I've either broken down on the road or needed help elsewhere, it's been a member of the military to volunteer that help most of the time. Odd, we can count on and trust the military to protect us abroad and help us here, even when they're not on duty. I would dare say I'd trust our military personell more than the PD to do the right thing. As for the ice cream and the bathing suit charges, as just about anyone that's lived here a while, or go to the Pilots archives.

With all of this "tax revenue" that is supposed to be helping the city (read residents somehow), just where are we supposed to be seeing the return on investment from taxpayers? My bill keeps going up and up so something is amiss in all of this excitement of tourist dollars. The only people that get excited about any of this is the developers and ocean side eateries/t-shirt shops. The residents keep paying and paying for something that will never return them anything but a bigger real estate tax bill. That is the truth.