Kaine pushes transportation plan at Virginia Beach meeting

Well, thanks for at least acknowledging that a good part of Kaine's plan actually meets your criteria. That is at least a start. But your contention that no general taxes should go to fund transportation is short sighted and fails to acknowledge that roads have a role to play not just as our personal means to get from one place to another, but as a means to live in metropolitan areas and to have the products and services upon which we depend to be delivered to us and available to us. In other words, we all have a nexus to transportation, even if we never actually ride our car on the roadway. So since we all benefit from the system, we all need to support it. That is why a portion of the general sales tax does make sense, and in a real sense, it is still a user fee.

Toll roads have come a long way since Route 44 to the Oceanfront.

I suggest those who are concerned see www.texas141.org for how a modern toll road can operate with no impact on traffic flow. There are no toll booths. Users are billed either through an electronic system like EZPASS (at a discount) or by photo recognition of their license plates if they don't have the electronic transponder.

Cars and trucks can be rated differently and fairly.

All of the options on the table, including the Governor's, rely on tolls in part. The only real difference is that the Libertarian Party plan does not toll one road or tunnel to fund another or take taxes from those who do not use a road to pay for it. Our plan relies on each project funding itself, so those projects which only make sense if those who do not use it are still forced to pay for it won't get built.

One thing for sure was that Gov. Kaine couldn't help but try to shame the audience into raising taxes and fees just because "other states" pay more. Because we don't pay the national average in taxes and fees so therefore we should be ashamed. Where have I heard that hogwash before? He didn't mention that some states like TN pay a high sales tax instead of an oppressive income tax. No one cares that California has a 7.5% sales tax on automobiles or that the gas tax is 10 cents more in NC. We don't live there. It's irrelevant. There is also no proof that these higher gas taxes in other states that are collected don't necessarily go to road maintenance or even new roads.
This is the same old spiel as last time. Let's throw money into a bottomless pit and make sure the port and business communities are free from gridlock and let the rest of go bankrupt and stay stuck in the same congestion. Sorry Governor Kaine. No sale.

Ever notice how developers despise big government intervention in anything until either it's time to pay for it, or somethings gone wrong. If these six road projects are truely worthy ones, and we're going to have tolls on them anyway, why not bring in the investors and developers and let them build the projects some feel Hampton Roads must have to survive. They would set the toll price and keep the money until the projects are paid for. Route 168 through Southern Chesapeaeke to the N.C. line was funded this way. Seems like a win/win.

With all respect, Mr. Greenmun's read of congestion seems to run contrary to the thinking of the majority of Hampton Roads residents who consider vehicular transportation to be a serious and worsening problem. It matters little whether the problem occurs 10% of the time or 50%. If it occurs when you're trying to get to work, catch a plane, get home to a sick child or get to an appointment, it's a problem. I'm sure we'd all like to hear Mr. Greenmun's anti-congestion solution that will cost us nothing and solve everything.

The Southeastern Expressway would divert traffic currently using I-264 and I-64. (Let's get over the silly notion that the SE Exp is bad because it breeds sprawl. Development is ALREADY sprawling.) Improvements to Rt 460, an additional Mid-town Tunnel and the Third Crossing (there are actually several "third crossing" options and elements) not only increase the capacity of two existing roadways and add an entirely new crossing, but all can divert traffic currently using the HRBT. (Besides which, the HRBT is now back on the table.)

While it would be easy to bash the Governor as a typical tax-and-spend liberal, the state of the roadways in Hampton Roads and, indeed, this area up through the northeast (of which I am most familiar) is deplorable, and something really does need to be done. While I hate the idea of more taxes for an organization that probably just needs to be run more efficiently, I think toll roads are a terrible idea. I mean, we all know how bad the traffic is around here; tolls would only exacerbate the problem. I would grudgingly pay a little more on a car purchase, car registration, or sales tax instead of having to wait endlessly through a toll booth line.

You can always expect to see Mr. North End tax and spend on topics like these. How about tax less, spend less. Live within a budget. Why is that so stinking hard for governments to learn?

td84719, the HRPDC produced expert congestion projects for the 6 MPO projects. According the experts at the HRPDC, today 15% of our highway lane miles are severely congestioned for a hour or so some days of the week. If all 6 MPO projects are built in 20 years, the HRPDC states that congestion will be lowered to 13% of our highway lanes miles. If none of the projects are built then severe congestion will increase by 3%, to 18% of the lane miles. td84719 - these are the expert estimates that the HRPDC developed. 20 years and at lease 10 Billion dollars and our region will only see, at best, a 2% reduction of severely congested lane miles. That my friends, is the MPO "plan" - and it is a bad plan. We need better projects. We need congestion relief.

S/W fishing licenses were sold as extra to save the bay but conservation funding was replaced by with these fees.

I do not believe one word out of Kaines mouth. The third crossing and the southeastern expressway will not ease congestion at all. One is for port trucks and the other is an avenue for more development. The problem here is the misappropriation of money that has been collected in the past. The lottery was sold as "extra" money going to education but education budgets were reduced by the amount of the lottery contribution. Warner pushed through a $1 billion a year tax increase but where did it go? Transportation fund surpluses and gas tax receipts have been diverted to the general fund or are subsidizing other programs. What politicians sell and the reality are far from each other. Enough!!! Reverse the crimes and there will be plenty to fund roads.

By his own admission, the Governor's plan is not perfect. He welcomes fresh ideas. But other than the earnest, if unrealistic, plan set forth by the Libertarians, no other plans have been proposed, certainly none by state Republicans.

The plan the Governor has proposed is not only realistic and fair in terms of addressing today's transportation funding shortfalls and the coming decade's needs, but also politically expedient in acknowledging his Republican opponents' preferences by proposing funding streams they have proposed and shown their willingness to support. As he explained at last night's meeting in VB, there are indeed other funding alternatives, including the Libertarian approach and raising the gas tax, but none that have the political support to actually get passed.

No matter what the solution to the current impasse, though, one thing we must all be realistic about is our expectation of what traffic will be like in this region over time. When transportation planning meets budgeting, the result is usually some kind of catch-up plan rather than a plan that builds capacity ahead of demand. Even with the completion of the proposed Hampton Roads projects and other im

Reid, the voters did not reject the 6 MPO projects in 2002 - they rejected an increased sales tax to fund them.

To say those six projects will not reduce congestion is ludicrous. Combined, they provide alternatives to existing choke points at HRBT, I-64/264, Downtown & Midtown Tunnels, plus provide an alternate route to/from Hampton Roads on an interstate quality road. Will they relieve congestion everywhere in HR? Of course not - but they can solve some significant problems IF they are built. And they are not just for the benefit of the port, despite Reid's continued repeating of that big lie.

Folks, I grew up in the DC area and watched as the congestion grew to choke that region. We are on the same path to gridlock, without a doubt. The only difference is, the economic engine in that area is the nations' capital and that isn't going anywhere. However, our economic engines can go elsewhere. The cargo thru the port, the military and the tourists can all take their business somewhere else, and will if our congestion gets too bad.

Tolls are not an alternate plan, it is a cop out. Why should I be forced to pay a toll for a road that is already operational? Do you honestly believe that our port would remain viable if tolls were instituted throughout the region?

Tolls are about the worst idea for a new tax. They slow down traffic and they are an unequal tax based on where you happen to need to drive. Why does one person driving 10 miles in one direction have to pay higher taxes than someone else driving 10 miles in another direction? They're both putting the same 10 miles of wear on the road.

The TLP plan does not oppose all projects, or even any particular project. We propose separating the projects in the plan and considering each for funding on a user pays basis. Those who benefit from a project should pay for it.

Those projects that are economically viable will be built, and promptly. But those which are only a good idea if someone other than the beneficiary pays for it won't get built.

What could be more fair and reasonable than that?

First of all, Mike, it's PPTA, not "PPPA".

As for Bishop Jackson's comments, the Governor's Transportation Change Fund would help provide the congregation options they don't have now. His ministry shouldn't be helping with Gasoline when a 30 Day bus pass could be bought for about the same price ($50 regular, $35 Seniors & Disabled) as one tank.

Greenmun and Tabor simply will never acknowledge that they have lost the public campaign, and the large moderate center of the electorate now acknowledges that our roads are in deplorable condition, that they are rapidly getting worse, and we will need to pay more in taxes, fees, and tolls. They could claim victory in that tolls are included in the Governor's plan, as is the potential for private participation through the PPPA legislation, but their continued opposition shows that while they call for these innovations, their true intent is to simply stop the projects. Greenmun is re-living the campaign of obfuscation he and others waged in 2002; problem is, now, just as then, voters know we must invest, and if the republicans and democrats fail to find the best way to raise new funds, there will be change in the next Legislature.

Before we throw more money into the Richmond black hole, let's make them account for what they have taken. Where the Transportation Trust Fund mony? Where's the fuel tax money? We need answers before we give more!

That is not what I asked.

I was quoting Del. Athey and the Republican thought process. The Democrat concept is to raise taxes. Always has been, Always will be. The Republican answer is to place tolls on roads. And in his justification he states, and I quote again, “This is not the time to be asking people to spend more money,”. How do they justify that a new toll is not asking me to spend more money? Tax or toll. It's all taking more money from me. Everything I buy costs more, so I have reduced spending in other areas. Why can't the government do the same?

A poster asks how putting a toll on a road that wasn't there before is raising taxes - first off, Governor Kaine is proposing billions in new taxes in his plan - statewide taxes - regional taxes - taxes everywhere. Tolls are just thrown into the mix too. Secondly, the plan for tolls includes adding tolls to the Downtown Tunnel - and making no improvements to that tunnel, just spending the toll money on the Midtown Tunnel. The plan includes higher taxes when you buy and sell cars, the plan includes higher grantor's taxes when you sell you house - but get this, not one dime of the grantor's tax will go to roads - just light rail, buses, airports - and of course - the port! Yup. 25 cents for every $100.00 of your sale price - sell your house , give money to airports and ports. Odd, that does nothing to reduce congestion - just jack up taxes. Governor wants to raise REGIONAL sales taxes 1%. The same thing we already voted down in 2002.

I expect the anti-tax crowd will be roaring today. It is amazing to me that many expect roads and transportation to magically renew and multiply. It takes money, people. Our money. So pony up and stop complaining.

And never trust a Libertarian.

“This is not the time to be asking people to spend more money,” Del. Clifford “Clay” Athey Jr., R-Warren , said......

If they put a toll on a road that does not have a toll on it now, is that not asking me to spend more money?

Before any tolls or taxes are raised, comb through the state budget and get rid of any funding item that has nothing to do with the function of government. I bet there are billions of transportation funds hiding in pork-barrel politicial earmarks.

Governor Kaine gets an "A" for trying to bring the folks in Richmond together in an attempt to offer a solution for reducing traffic congestion. Sadly, he is wasting our time using an MPO plan with a grade of "F" to do it. In our region the same 6 MPO projects we said "no!" to back in 2002 are repackaged, but this time the Peninsula delegation put down their foot and forced the secret, locked door MPO to add some more lanes to the HRBT. As you recall, the business lobby doesn't care about reducing traffic congestion, their 6 MPO projects are mostly about forcing us to pay for the state-owned port highways - roads for more trucks - because the port wants to expand. Friends, until the Governor rejects the MPO plan and a good plan is offered (a plan that actually reduces congestion); we should all tell our representatives in Richmond to just say "no".

It is too late for this. We were buying big-big trucks and cars a few years ago that get 10mpg, after being taught a lesson in the 70's about gas mileage from Asia. We now find ourselves in the same predicament. Except this time it is worse. Our roads are overcrowded and in disrepair. Taxes are rising all around us. Jobs are leaving for overseas. Food, gas and housing prices are ridiculous. Housing bubbles are popping bringing down financial institutions. Inflation is misreported as tame to keep salaries down. We should have been thinking more efficiently years ago when we were fat and happy, but now the pendulum is swinging the other way, and we will pay the price. We will have a hard time funding programs such as this with more tax increases while the average citizen pumps $4 plus gas now and pays for increased food to survive.

Big gov't Don Tabor is just promoting more taxes under a different name.

And the Tidewater Libertarian Party road plan is a lot more than just tolls

You can read the plan at http://tinyurl.com/4kwcjh