NORFOLK
The head of Festevents said she plans to amend all contracts with bands and performers who play at Town Point Park to make it clear that profanity will not be tolerated.
On Saturday night during the annual Bayou Boogaloo and Cajun Festival, a rap performer was asked to leave the stage and was issued a misdemeanor citation from police for using obscenity in public. Rapper Raymond "Boots" Riley was a guest performer of the group Galactic.
Karen Scherberger, whose Festevents organization sponsors most downtown festivals, said for years agents for bands have been told that obscenity is not allowed in concerts at Town Point Park. She and Mike Jones, who helps Festevents book music, said they go through an extensive screening process to ensure that bands don't have a history of using obscenity.
Galactic has never had any problems when performing at Town Point Park, Scherberger said. The group is known by many for its "New Orleans funk," which blends hip-hop and jazz.
"There's a big difference between what's acceptable at a public park and a frat party," said Jones, co-president of More Music Group in Virginia Beach, which books most music for Festevents.
Scherberger said that once Riley cursed, most in the crowd of 4,000 began to exit the park. Riley used an embellishment of the F-word as he introduced members of the band.
"It was a mass exodus," she said. "It was not a good scene. It was probably the worst night I've had in 26 years."
She said she asked police to cite Riley for his use of profanity. Riley was cooperative back stage, she said. Norfolk Police Department spokesman Chris Amos said Monday that he did not know when Riley is scheduled to be in court.
The Virginian-Pilot could not contact Riley for comment.
The incident comes less than a month after some downtown residents and Vice Mayor Anthony L. Burfoot complained that they heard obscene language during Afr'Am Fest over Memorial Day weekend.
City officials, including Mayor Paul Fraim, Burfoot, City Manager Regina V.K. Williams and three other members of the City Council, said that Scherberger handled the situation appropriately. Although Festevents is not a city-run agency, it gets much of its funding from the city.
Festevents is a private group designed to create entertainment and draw people into Town Point Park and other city venues, such as Ocean View Beach Park.
"We simply cannot tolerate that sort of obscene language in the park by people we pay to perform," Fraim said.
Riley, who is from Oakland, Calif., is the lead singer for the rap group Coup. Some of his album titles include "Kill My Landlord" and "Genocide and Juice." According to the East Bay Express newspaper in the Oakland area, Riley determined at age 15 he wanted to become a revolutionary.
Norfolk city officials said they received one e-mail Monday from a person complaining that Festevents violated Riley's right to free speech. Fraim, an attorney, disagreed.
"If you're paying somebody to perform, I don't think you have a First Amendment issue," he said.
Scherberger said it's rare that profanity is used by performers at Town Point Park. The last she recalls was about 15 years ago, when a disgruntled singer gave a Friday afternoon concert to a small crowd and began shouting expletives.
"I couldn't get him to step off the stage, so we took the sound down," she said. She said he was not cited for profanity.
Burfoot said he was leaving Town Point Park on Saturday about 9:30 p.m. with his daughter when Riley began to speak.
"When I heard what he was saying, I said, 'Oh my goodness,' " he said. Todd Owens, lead singer for the Trauma Dolls, a Norfolk rock 'n' roll band, said city officials may have gone overboard in pressing charges.
"Maybe they just could have pulled the plug on the band."
Scherberger said she wants to make sure people know that Town Point Park is a family venue.
"Some might argue that children shouldn't be out that time of night, but they are out," she said. "We want families to feel safe downtown at any time of night."
Staff writers Jaedda Armstrong and Matthew Bowers contributed to this story.
Harry Minium, (757) 446-2371, harry.minium@pilotonline.com
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I can not believe we are
I can not believe we are making such a big deal out of this. The man said a curse word, I am pretty sure it was lot more tamed than what most kids hear in school or what is on T.V. Ex. my 9 y/o sister explained to me what a Lesbian and Gay means, so curse words are the least of worries. If the man is wrong charge him and get on with the events. It is crazy that people are trying to generalize all Hip Hop as cursed filled bad music. Sadly people judge off what only the main stream media puts out there and that is not a full representation of what is really going on. It would be wrong for me to judge any genre of music by what only the media puts out, if that was the case could you imagine what generalizations I could come up with about rock music. There is always more than whats on the surface. If people do not want to hear bad language stay in the house. As for explaining it to the kids I just tell my 9 y/o sister "Don't you do it, you know better than that" and that is end of story.
You are what you speak
Profanity and/or Obscenity should not be tolerated by adults or children. Practice what you preach. Period.
If there are laws on the books to charge folks with profanity in public...charge them all. Our society over the last 40 years has become so focused on what we think our god given rights are and only promotes selfishness. What ever happen to treating others they way you would like to be treated? I sure don't swear at others and expect that same courtesy - it use to be an unwritten and unacceptable practice that has been pushed by the wayside.
Common courtesy is no longer the norm it is the exception to the rule and I am hard pressed to find anyone who truly believes in it any more. Remember the days when you were "shocked" by the some spoken word of others? Not any more - fighting, bickering and blaming others is the new acceptable practice in our society and will only tear us all apart.
Pick a better country
It's only America when it goes your way.
Re: Mary's comments.
It should be noted, that 4000 "paying customers" didn't leave the park. The event was "free". I mean, gosh golly, I'm so glad that Festevents did a survey of everyone leaving (not to mention a headcount) to find out they were leaving because of that single word? Or maybe they just weren't into the hip-hop/funk fusion sound. A city councilman and several people heard, commented, and complained about the previous concert that spewed obscene language, and no one mailed them a citation.
Anyway. It's courteous that they at least make the concession to let it be known in advance that language will not be allowed. Maybe then they can start swearing in foreign languages and FestEvents will ban anyone from speaking non-English languages. :D
A Family Venue? *scoff*
"Scherberger said she wants to make sure people know that Town Point Park is a family venue."
Really? Then does that mean she's going to stop booking beer festivals and wine festivals, and banish alcohol vendors from Town Point Park? I don't think so. That'll dent the purses too much. Hypocrisy only goes but so far, since alcohol and being smashed drunk isn't a family event. Harborfest: a massive city sponsored event to celebrate "local maritime heritage" that involves an obscene amount of drinking and obscenity. Is it only a family environment when the family's drunk and swearing, or just when Festevents needs to make a PR move.
Mayor Fraim, in regards to your "fully supporting Ms. Scherberger's decision"; you also fully supported Manager Williams' decision on her job hiring that was ousted in the newspaper, until it became clear the public wasn't going to stand for it. Then you retracted and backpedaled. Don't let the ACLU get wind of you practicing being a judge and remanding 1st amendment judgements. That's something for the post-mayoral career.
I look forward.......
.....to coming home to see what all my friends have written about today. One thing is for certain....our world is full of individuals with our own beliefs and opinions. That's what makes us a great nation. Unfortunately sometimes we all don't agree and then it's up to us intelligent citizens to listen to the facts and make a decision on what's right and what's wrong. Even though we have different beliefs we should still know and accept what's right and wrong. The facts here are there was a performance that what most would say went beyond decorum. There were complaints and Festevents said we won't have this at our shows. Where they made the mistake was not re-writing their requirements and issuing them to future performers. Let's ask ourselves this question.....had the guy not been removed from the stage would he have gone on with the explenatives? I think we all "think" we know the answer here
Mardi Gras
Just to set the record straight, from a friend who lives in the New Orleans Garden District along the parade route: Yes, Mardi Gras is a family event for many of New Orleans' old families, who gather on the grandparents' lawn to watch the parade. Now if you mean Bourbon Street at 11:30 P.M. on Fat Tuesday itself, no, that is not a family event. Cheers, MGM
ARCHIE
There is a "k" in Amerika, as I and many others now spell it to make a point. The man should have watched his language more, but to arrest and charge him for a word, a mere word, that is a travesty that should enrage us all.
Thanks for the response and I respect your opinion.
Isn't it great to live in America where you can do whatever you want;until you're caught or somebody calls you on it? Try doing this elsewhere if it so bad here.....
re: Profanity
msrat1 wrote:
Will this clause apply to event patrons who are walking around spewing 4-letter profanities at every turn or is it only going to apply to the entertainment?
Only when the crowd has several thousand watts of amplification running through high-power handling monitors; the band did have that advantage.
Apples and oranges, msrat...
stop it already using the Constitution !!
Local people have a right to set decent codes of behavior. This has been tested time and time again in the courts. While you can't put a muzzle on anyone's speech, you can control objectionable content that the general public hears and sees if the majority feels that objectionable behavior should be limited. I don't mind if women go topless on the city streets, but the majority of people think that to be objectionable so I go along. Why not have 4 letter words on network TV? The George Carlin type? Because most find it objectionable and the courts say we have the right to set local standards. We don't need washed-up performers spreading filth over loud speakers in Norfolk. Karen is right!
Misconceptions again about Jefferson corrected
Thomas Jefferson did not stop believing in the miracles of Jesus until the death of his wife. Up until that time,he was an Episcopalian. They found this written in the front of his bible:
"I am a real Christian,that is to say,a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ." You seem to think being a deist is being an unbeliever and it isn't. It simply means they believe God is like a watchmaker that winds the clock and leaves them unattended.Never to be wound again.
Screening
"She and Mike Jones, who helps Festevents book music, said they go through an extensive screening process to ensure that bands don't have a history of using obscenity."
Ludicrous. Boots Riley was listed as the Guest Artist on the Festevents website as well as on Galactic's tour website. No one bothered to screen him.
I would appreciate it if someone would take responsibility instead of feigning shock.
Constitution
As someone who reads the Constitution on a regular basis, and studies the founders, although Jefferson and Franklin might have been uneasy with the speech they still wouldn't want government banning speech that is essentially harmless. Has anyone researched when these "Banned" words became profanity? Could it be because someone was "offended" and determined it so, another control on speech? There is no right to be free of offense, nor is there a right for government to ban any kind of speech except that which causes or can cause physical harm. It doesn't allow slander or liable, either, although they are civil offenses and not necessarily criminal. We must allow free speech. As stated before, you have the right to speak but not the right to be heard. If you don't like it walk away, turn it off or let the offender know then.
No matter what is proferred as proof by certain factions Jefferson and Franklin were Deists to their deaths. Stop playin with the facts.
Family event?
I think it's hilarious that people keep referring to the Boogaloo as a "family event." Is Mardi Gras a family event?
The bottom line is that people paid to enter Town Point Park that night -- the same as if the show were held at Scope or even the Virginia Beach Amphitheater. Artists have cursed in those venues and not been charged.
For an artist to drop the F-bomb at 9:30 p.m. at an event celebrating the debauchery of the Big Easy is not the same as someone doing it at 1 p.m. at a children's festival.
Mike
I don't care if your wife is black. Good for you. When you use the kind of words you used in your last post, then you are making hurtful, stereotyped, racialized statements that only serve to magnify your ignorance. If you have a black wife, then maybe she should demand that you show a little more respect for black culture. We are not all named Lakisha, we do not all glorify the use of obscene language in music targeted towards a black audience. Many of us love black music that is respectful and positive, so stop your stereotyping.
First Amendment does not protect obscenity
Profanity falls under obscenity and as such is not offered any protection under the First Amendment. Means government can make laws against the use of such if it falls against "community standards". Note the key word "community". Very important interpretation by the Supreme Court.
America with a C
And I spell it korectly to make a point. Some of us are seriously lacking in our Constitutional knowledge and our protected rights.
By the way... inventive spelling is... uhm... so unedumacated.
RE:CH's Comments
My wife is black! My musician friends are of mixed culture. To answer your question from the last post you left--NO We do not wear white hoods! Having respect towards an audience in a public venue is a sign of professionalisam! Glad they wrote a no profanity clause into the contract. Also, if you can CH, think back to the Apollo Theatre-Those people (artists) were a class act, and had dignity and respect, for themselves and the audience! More so than any of today's "urban acts"! So there.. happy now? *smiling* White Hoods?...my..my..you really were grasping weren't you?
Nobody is trying to take Karen's job
That is flat out rediculious. Fest-events is only following trend though and certainly not a cutting-edge force in the cultural arts promoter scene by any stretch of the yard. That does not matter. What matters is that the ball was dropped and people are crediting her for it as some protector of family values, That is the hipocracy. No one cares because the city and it's cronies are inept, corrupt classist who hold on to their power by unscrupulios means. Again, this is not the matter of address, the point is that someone did not do their homework and it would have taken minutes to listen to Galactic's last CD. As well, it would have taken minutes to attatch an addendum to the contract. This is talent buying 101. The band was blind-sided because they had no clue what kind of performance this was, they just came off of several shows whereby they had artistic freedom. The issue is and what cannot go un
Huh?
If the constitution gives us the right to use profanity, but Norfolk has a law against profanity, doesn't that make Norfolk's law against profanity unconstitutional?
Maybe some of you constitutional scholars can clear this up for me. Thanks.
jmo
try studying some history
Jefferson did not say or write, “I may not agree…” That particular quotation is generally attributed to Voltaire, although there is some question about whether he said it. If you read Thomas Jefferson’s eloquent writings, I doubt you would come to the conclusion that he would approve of someone dropping the F bomb during a show. The framers were concerned about the right of political expression during a time when publicly dissenting from the government would get your head lopped off for being a traitor. They were not so much defending the kind of behavior that seems to be going on at Town Point of late. Some of you need to dig up the Federalist Papers, as well as actually to read the Constitution; most folks who cite freedom of speech can’t even tell you the five rights guaranteed by the First Amendment. Of course, the right to be ignorant is inalienable, too.
I'm not from Norfolk . . .
But I am gonna take a guess here. Karen Scherberger has handled Festevents for 20 years while it grew up from babyhood to young adulthood and participated in the revitalization of downtown Norfolk. Now that she has done the job successfully so long, the job description is changing (there are new condos nearby that need to be buffered from noise, the park needs to be redesigned, etc.). Of course, there are gonna be "newbies" who *think* they can do that job better than Karen if they take it over from here on out. They might even be right.
Only, there is a fair way to try to get Karen's job. The gratuitous comments about her boyfriend being the mayor's brother have sounded like sour grapes to me. Honestly, if she can do the job, I don't care if she is *married* to Meyera Oberndorf (and I am one of those "born agains" who doesn't believe in gay marriage). Who she loves and the job she does are two separate is
Traveler
There is a "k" in Amerika, as I and many others now spell it to make a point. The man should have watched his language more, but to arrest and charge him for a word, a mere word, that is a travesty that should enrage us all.
Okay, so next year hire
Okay, so next year hire Wayne Newton and Pat Boone as the headliners and see what kinda crowd you get. You knew damned good and well that this group used fowl language and if you didnt know it you should be fired for not performing due diligiance.
Now, Karen S will do here
Now, Karen S will do here job, point is she looks great to all the puritanical touting family values at the same time she makes a mint on alcohol sales. The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze.Now that is southern aristocracy for you"
Interesting. I didn't know Karen S owned Waterside.The things ya learn on the internet !
That is the point.... The constitution allows for free speak
With exception to threat of bodily harm to persons or racial or religious persecution. that certainly did not occur. Just tell your city leaders who are lawyers I might add to get their fact straight and their minions to do their jobs and this won't be a problem. Now, Karen S will do here job, point is she looks great to all the puritanical touting family values at the same time she makes a mint on alcohol sales. The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze.Now that is southern aristocracy for you
How long?
I'm kind of interesting in how long they'll try to stretch this story out. Just realized it's three days now as a top story. Is there so little real news out there?
Cited
The article states that he was cited by the Police, not arrested. Cited is short for Citation, in this case a ticket. He was not arrested as Squirrley states.
Correcting Squirrely about Thomas Jefferson
"Thomas Jefferson himself would probably be turning in his grave knowing that people are citing the constitution in order to be profane"
Squirrely: You must have missed my post.Thomas Jefferson did NOT have anything to do with the drafting of the Constitution.He excused himself as an expert because he was in France when it was drafted.Jefferson said:
"On receiving the Constitution while in France I wrote strongly to Mr Madison, urging the want of provision of freedom of religion,freedom of the press,trial by jury habeas corpus,the substitution of militia for a standing army and an express reservation to the States of all rights not specifically granted to the Union..That is all the hand I had in what related to the Constitution" The words Separation of church and state (in a letter to the Danbury Baptists) was to assure them the 1st amendment was to act like a wall to protect the church fr
make a list...
IF this is really going to fly there needs to be a "list" of what can't be said. What you think is profanity may not be in others opinions. The ACLU and lawyers will make a joke of this....not that I agree but it's just the way things are now.