Tolls would be put on interstate highways running through Virginia under a proposal advanced Friday by state Sen. Ken Stolle, R-Virginia Beach, to raise money for transportation improvements.
Stolle also calls for using a portion of tax revenues generated by expected growth at Hampton Roads ports for the region's major road, bridge and tunnel needs.
Stolle, a member of the Senate Finance Committee, said he plans to introduce bills for the tolls and port money when the General Assembly convenes June 23 for a special session aimed at raising revenue for roads, rail and bus service.
Efforts to improve transportation have been stymied for years by deep disagreement over whether the legislature must raise money to reduce congestion. There is no indication that lawmakers have
resolved the debate, and many expect the special session to end in futility.
Stolle said his proposals would provide innovative ways for funding roads, and detour politically charged debate over increasing general taxes.
Gov. Timothy M. Kaine is asking lawmakers to approve an $860 million package of tax increases. Stolle and a growing number of legislators who in the past have supported tax hikes for transportation say tough economic conditions preclude raising levies this year.
"People are hurting," Stolle said. "Gas is up to $4 a gallon and it's affecting the price of food and other goods. Now is just not the right time to raise taxes."
Stolle this month began circulating his plan - which he acknowledges has some weaknesses - with Kaine, other lawmakers and Hampton Roads businessmen.
The state pays the federal government $500 million a year to maintain interstate highways in Virginia. Under Stolle's proposal, Virginia would ask the Federal Highway Administration to for go the direct payments and allow Virginia to raise the interstate maintenance money by installing tolls on Interstate 64, Interstate 95, Interstate 81 and Interstate 85.
The $500 million a year the state would save would be invested in road projects across Virginia.
One problem is that Stolle may be asking for something unprecedented. The federal government allows states to put tolls on interstates to raise money for projects that relieve traffic congestion. Stolle and Transportation Secretary Pierce Homer said it is uncertain whether federal laws allow the tolls for interstate maintenance. A spokes person for the Federal Highway Administration did not return phone calls Friday afternoon.
Many rural lawmakers adamantly oppose tolls on interstates, particularly I-81, the major artery in southwest Virginia. "We're just not fond of tolling a road we consider already paid for," said Sen. William Wampler, R-Bristol.
Hampton Roads is looking for billions of dollars to fund seven major road projects, including a third bridge-tunnel to the Peninsula and expansions of the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and the Midtown Tunnel.
Stolle says all of the projects would increase business at Hampton Roads ports - perhaps even triple it over time - so it is natural to look to the ports for money for the roads, bridges and tunnels.
He said it's not known how much in tax revenue the ports pump into state coffers.
Stolle, who guesses it may be as much as $2 billion a year, said he wants the state to come up with an exact figure.
Of all future tax revenues beyond that amount, he wants 30 percent earmarked for Hampton Roads transportation projects.
Stolle would cap the earmark at $250 million a year. That amount, combined with tolls on the new regional projects, should give Hampton Roads ample money to build the road network of its dreams, he said.
One problem is that the port revenues Stolle is considering diverting for transportation - mostly sales, income and corporate taxes - would otherwise be slated to go into the state's general fund, which is used to support education, health, public safety and other state government services.
"We're very seriously concerned with any proposal that would take money out of the general fund to pay for transportation," said Delacey Skinner, a spokeswoman for Kaine.
Warren Fiske, (804) 697-1565, warren.fiske@pilotonline.com
Julian Walker, (804) 697-1564, julian.walker@pilotonline.com
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Excuse me Ira. Where do you get your info?
Interesting quote: "Stevec, none of your statements are based in fact.... In addition, the primary reason some train systems have not been doing well is the single passenger car system." Well isn't it interesting that you acknowledge and try to explain away one of the statements that is not fact. That is a bit confusing.
As a professional with over 30 years in the trans / infrastructure business, I can tell you that these ideas you dismiss are the current discussion in the business and not on laymans blogs. Do a little research. Roadways have been a failed experiment according to you? Really...the federal highway system actually is what allowed our country to develop to the level of economy we have. You're so far out of the park you don't even know you're not even in left field anymore. Actually light rail is being acknowledged as a failure in most locales of late.
oh those self made men of dreams
SO wm talbor.. just who paid for the roads in fromnt of your house? who paid for the roads that lead to your job? should we put a toll station there? THINK of a $2.50 toll. Round-robin, $5 a day x 200 work days. = $1,000.00 /yr to some families, and businesses. Out of thin air a family with 2.5 kids and pet du jour, making 35K loses $1,000. Some tolls are projected at $9.00 / yr or $3600. It boils down to would you rather pay a $100 tax for 30 years OR a $1000 toll for the rest of your LIFE and your kids life? I pay high taxes also the waste is what is killing us. not ligetimate expences. and brother 10 cents a gal is a whole lot cheaper than 80 cents a mile.
Well, of course, Ira
Of course I oppose building roads with tax money.
If you had read the Tidewater Libertarian Party Transportation Policy recommendations, you would know that we support building infrastructure with user fees which fall on those who benefit from the project and not on general taxation.
Drivers and those who purchase products moved on the highways should pay for those projects. Transit should be supported by the fares it charges and bicycle paths should be paid for by those who use them as well.
Everyone should pay their own way, including the Port of Virginia. no one should get a free ride paid for by someone else.
So, how are we going to charge bicyclists for their bicycle paths, a spandex tax?
One sec Stevec
"So, subsidies are, in each and every case, a bad idea and a corruption of the purpose of government.
And that includes subsidies that benefit me."
Thank you Mr .Tabor for agreeing that the building of roads w/ tax payer dollars should cease.
Stevec, none of your statements are based in fact. I noted that concrete and steel would not be getting cheaper because they are needed right now in the construction of a train infrastructure. In addition, the primary reason some train systems have not been doing well is the single passenger car system. As more and more people find this continued use to be impossible, public transit has increased. We cannot wait until the end of an era to begin another. Your ideas are dated and flawed. Your not looking ahead.
Actually Ira Tateu
Going back to trains is going back in history to a system that failed for too many obvious reasons. NYC is a very unique condition in a very old city. Hardly the typical model of our modern cities. Fact is, rail systems are failing miserably across the nation for transportation purposes. Low usage, extremely high construction and operation cost, usage fees have not covered cost anywhere in the US, local light rails can't be used to haul goods, there is no "national train system", Amtrak has been in disarray since its inception, they serve very limited purposes, even after the train reaches its destination, the passengars still have to have transportation to a final destination, passengars are captive to train schedules, on and on and on. This country will always have roadways. Btw, what do you suppose rail systems are composed of if not concrete and steel?? The Tidewaters issues will not be solved by trains. We need upgraded roadway infrastructure and a way to pay for it.
"re: Dr. Tabor Submitted by
"re: Dr. Tabor
Submitted by HenryR on Sat, 06/14/2008 at 2:07 pm.
Roads "
Henry, he knows this. He has been told before. This fact would mess up the message he wants to convey. Don is a smart guy but like all of us he tends to let his bias bleed through.
Back to the subject at hand. I know many of you are against trains. However, if you dug deeper, you would find that the 'build more roads' approach has failed and had to be reversed in major cities like NYC. It simply will not work. It only invites more useage. In fact, there is a special on either the Discovery or History channel concerning the expansion of roads in New York and their subsequent failure to make a difference. The only logical outcome is a viscious circle. You will have to pave everything.
We have an opportunity here to make a difference. Steel and concrete will not be getting cheaper. More trains. We also need to be linked to the national system.
Sorry Henry...gen terms...
I didn't mean to insinuate you voted for him. I guess tech he is was every VA residents Gov. I haven't either btw.
Interesting how the posts here would like to indicate the Republicans are responsible for tax increases but at the same time blamed for refusing to raise taxes. Warner recently claimed responsibility for his tax increase. Quote is in the Pilot today. Whoever did it. No new roads.
Regardless, increased taxes don't build roads. Scare tactics don't make tolls a bad option. Traffic jams at easy passes don't exist. Foreign companies are building our road already. The largest Trans const co in the Tidewater is foreign owned. Gas taxes can be avoided by out of state drivers. I never buy fuel in NC. Traveling from VA to GA or visa versa I get my fuel in VA and SC exclusively although I travel NC and GA roads. A toll is paid when you use the road. Tolled roads make money for a state, taxes get robbed and used in the general fund.
"Your Democratic Governor"?
Uh...Steve...I've never voted for a Democrat for Governor in my life, either here or in my native Maryland.
"responsible", eh stevenc
Those "huge tax increases" were republican approved. Of course the do-nothing republicans also preapproved all of the huge tax increases of the unconstitutional regional taxing authority.
The do-nothing republicans love to pretend they are for low taxes but they just try to figure out other ways to raise taxes.
You're doing a fine job of picking and choosing, steven.
You'd like to have it both ways eh Kieth?
Typical. You're all crying here that the Republicans won't pass tax increases for the roads: quote "We're in this transportation mess because those Republicans have not allowed one additional penny to our gasoline tax in almost 20 years. Those tooth fairy, Santa Claus and egg laying rabbit believers have some sort of notion that we can get something for nothing."......and at the same time claiming the Republicans were responsible for Gov Warners huge tax increases. Or did Warner not introduce and push for that plan? Pick whichever version of history works for ya Kieth. Or better, pick both and use whichever fits your predicament.
tolls on interstate
Options for needed transporation monies Option 1) Erect tolls and all the infrastructure/manpower necessary to operate same... cost equals increased traffic slowdowns and bottlenecks and 50 Cents - Dollar per collection. Option 2) Tack on 2 Cents to every gallon of gasoline/diesel sold in the Virginia, similiar monies already collected, no new infrastructure / manpower needed, no slow down of traffic or creation of bottlenecks, and the least cost and fairness to all, including out of state drivers who will refuel here. Tolls are simply archaic, medieval, and inefficient in a modern day transportation society. And those that expound there use I believe are grossly ignorant, or worse, are having there own campaigns/bank accounts being funded by those companies/enterprises which would benefit from the creation of a toll infrastructure system.
"the biggest tax increases in VA history"
Funny that stevenc's version of research and Virginia history don't mention that some(all?) of those "biggest tax increases in VA history" were republican approved by the republican majority legislature.
Scheme or not to scheme Or I don't care
HB-3202 is not just few fees increases. It is about TOLLS, and more to the point PRIVATIZING our Transportation System. Projects being sold as revenue streams to States, in mass, by profit making ventures. We (Virginia), are but a continuum of this rush to sell off America. These are $68 a share and $182 a share “ventures”, most of which are foreign companies. Foreign companies which could be then sold on the world market to direct enemies. This is more than about a revenue stream. This is your country you so profess to love. But once you’ve sold it off, well brother, it isn’t yours anymore.
There-in lies a larger picture of the danger of concessions to act as revenue collections. Companies selling technology trinkets, as the preferred method of funding roads, while they profit.
We end up paying for the trinkets, at the cost of about a third more, to collect the funding for roads. If this is how we use and think of Virginia tax dollars is it no wonder we pay high taxes. We are getting 2/3 of the product for the revenue. Let’s cut the fat. Governor Wilder did a study for Governor Warner which pointed out 1.1 billion in cuts which could be made annually of which
Actually Henry....and study your VA history charterwellsjr
Roads are only subsidized because of our current method of tax, and build (with much infighting, delay, and diversion of funds along the way). Roads will not only pay for themselves, but pay for future upgrades and make a nice profit with tolls. Not even debateable. It's why there are so many private firms chomping at the bit for P-3's.
Before doing too much republican bashing charterwellsjr, you may want to do a little research. The residents of VA soundly defeated the gas tax referendum years ago that would have raised your beloved taxes for roads.
Fact is, your Democratic Govenor forced the biggest tax increases in VA history down our throats and there is not one single inch of roadway improvement to show for it. Wonder why taxpayers are wary?
It's all about priorities!
It's about priorities. Just as we've had to cut back or out the cable TV, the broadband, the eating out, the vacation, and unnecessary trips to afford gasoline, the state needs to prioritize as well. It's obvious that transportation is given only lip service and not a priority. If we want better roads then we must sacrifice spending on other things. I guantee that there is enough money for roads if spending is cut on other things. Maybe we could cut some school, library, arts or other areas to build the roads....BUT then everyone who had a cut would scream and well connected lobbyists would make a havoc.
Stolle Prefers to Tinker About the Edges
Stolle appears to be another of those tax-a-phobic, no new tax, bury the head under the sand Republicans who inhabit our legislature. We're in this transportation mess because those Republicans have not allowed one additional penny to our gasoline tax in almost 20 years. Those tooth fairy, Santa Claus and egg laying rabbit believers have some sort of notion that we can get something for nothing.
Face the problem head-on, folks. If you don't want to pay the price, stop complaining about gridlocked traffic.
re: Dr. Tabor
Roads are subsidized, too.
No toll boothes required
I haven't seen the details of Stolle's plan, so I can't endorse it, but it seems better than hiding the cost of the roads in a sales tax. Any major new road or tunnel project that can't pay its own way with tolls probably should not be built at all.
For those still paranoid about tolls, PLEASE go to www.texas121.org and see how a modern toll road can operate with no impact on traffic flow.
Henry, the best thing I see yet about this plan is that it does not tax drivers to pay for rail and transit. Its way past time that transit pay its own way. I don't expect anyone else to be forced to pay for 70% of my gasoline, so why should I be forced to pay 70% of your bus fare?
Get out of the dark ages and join the rest of the country
If you've lived anywhere except Tidewater or been in the transportation/ infrastructure business, you'd realize how foolish these comments sound. Typical scare tactics against tolls. Oh..the booths are expensive to build and man, not efficient, slow down traffic. Baloney. With the cruise pass system the only vehicles slowed down are out of staters. In the time I lived in FL I have no idea where the toll booths were. Never noticed as everyone just flies by. There will eventually be a nationaly useable cruise pass. Tolls are the most efficient way to collect trans funds. One source easily accountable. Not multiple taxes and taxpayers to sort.Tolls are the fairest system to fund roadway construction. It is a user fee. You use, you pay. Don't use, don't pay. Just like water treatment. This is why you don't hear about needed water plants NOT being built; funded with user fees. The cost of highway const has more than doubled in the past 10 years. You CANNOT fund what is needed with ANY tax. The cost of hurricane gates and cameras might get you about 1/4 mile of road. Get over it. The problem is larger and waste is a small part of it. Increased taxes into the gen fund do not get roads bui
Gas tax or no tax
Tolls are an inefficient way of collecting revenue, they slow traffic and have a high overhead cost. also tolls should never be put on existing roadways, only new ones that have not been paid of yet.
This is a STATE problem, not just local
Transportation problems here and in northern VA are STATE problems, not just local. Taxes generated by heavy industry here and high property values in northern VA are distributed throughout the entire state. Tolls are an absurd solution, just adding to the traffic problems with net income eaten up by operating costs. That's why most tolls were removed years ago. Why does VA continue to subsidize the oil companies by keeping the gas tax lower than all surrounding states? A few pennies per gallon tax increase is less than $2 per week for the average commuter. PLUS, the tax is paid by ALL visitors and through traffic. The increase would cost almost NOTHING to implement. Had we passed the two penny gas tax increase referendum in 2002, we would not be agonizing over this now and our gas tax would STILL be near the lowest in the nation.
Port Taxes?
The port doesn't pay taxes. So that means Stolle is looking at taxes that are supposedly generated by businesses because the port exists. According to the VPA website, those offshoot taxes are 600 million, but who really knows? It's not as if those dollars have a sticker on them that says, "Compliments of the ports." Also aren't those taxes already dedicated to other things? In fact, without state money the ports would be operating at a loss due to the heavy bond debt for their expansion projects. So the only 'profit' the port generates is from offshoot taxes that are vulnerable in today's economic environment.
budnbarb57 has it right
While I don’t particularly care Stolle (too liberal), tolls make sense in that those who use the roads most, pay the most. Likewise, if the revenue generated from gas taxes could only be used for highways--that would make good sense too. Unfortunately, gas tax revenues wind up in the general fund, so politicians end up using these funds to buy votes.
Still, if the state were to cut back on useless spending--things like welfare, food stamps, Title 8, etc.; which allows the deadbeats to live off of the productive, we would have plenty of money for road construction.
NO TOLL!........PERIOD !!!!
NO, NO, NO , .... To tolls of any kind ! Do these idiots in Rihmond not have any ears? NO TOLLS !!!
Here's an idea Mr. Stolle:
Spend less elsewhere! We ain't-a gonna pay no tolls! We got a convoy that will vote you out of office if you pull this bull.
Stolle!
Be careful of anything this man proposes! He misrepresented the failed transportation plan. Tolls on interstates? I don't think anyone wants to turn the Commonwealth into another New Jersey expressway having to stop ever 10 minutes to pay a toll. Tolls are not cost effective approches to raising revenue.
UUGGGG!!! I keep hearing tax/toll/fees! Where's existing funds?
All these politicians keep coming up with toll/tax/fee plans. None of them are mentioning HOW MUCH EXISTING funds are there and WHERE those funds are going! Pilot needs to tell us how much we're already charged in fees/taxes that were created for transportation. Then Pilot should tell us how much of these funds are going to projects that have little to do with roads. Then lets take a look at stupid but expensive projects. Such as; Electronic road signs, hurricane gates, CAMERA systems (this is something the media wants but does us no good at all, very expensive), an overabundance of signs (leave a little to common sense), cutting grass and weeds instead of just planting low ground cover, paying for the ports projects and railroad projects out of our transportation funds (railroads can afford to pay their officers millions of dollars in bonuses, let them pay for their rails), the list of waste is endless. It's time to make VDOT and our politicians responsible for the funds that are already there before we allow them to tax/fee/toll us more. Undermining the state constitution is NOT the way to accomplish this, the state constitution is there to protect us.
Two Huge Problems
1) The Feds are unlikely to grant us the concessions Stolle wants for Virginia, as the other 49 states could then ask for them.
2) It doesn't have the transit and rail money that Kaine's plan has.
In short, kill this plan.
Bull!!!
Think about what your saying budnbarb57! The dear Senator wants to spend millions on toll booth construction, and how much will it cost to hire all of the toll collectors, accountant, repair people and supervisors???? All of that is NOT free!I forget the amount that was spent REMOVING the toll booths on the mid town, downtown tunnels and 44. Good lord now they want to build them back and some!!! I also don't remember, and maybe someone will chime in, how many times over that those roads were paid for. Also how much it took just to keep up the staffs and buildings. These guys are either too young, blind or stupid to remember.
a bird in one hand and .... in the other
We have a workable solution via a Democratic govenor versus a Republic controlled house of ...., their latest and greatest feat was to illegally punished local drivers their transgressions of driving...Stolle who guesses and thinks just doens't have any answers - says if I am to be elected this year it would not be good for me to raise taxes is doing you and I a disservice.
Our legislatures have and are costing us billions because they have not and will not make an unpopulare decision that will help our traffic congestion and allow us access out of the area in case of a hurricane and improve our economic base.
It is time to throw the bums out.