■ 17 June 2008 | 7:34 AM
Stolen speech
Two weekends ago, something very precious was stolen from 1537 Laskin Rd. our right to speak freely. Virginia Beach Friends Meeting is one of more than 300 congregations in 50 states to participate in 'Banners Across America,' a month-long initiative of the National Religious Campaign Against Torture. The Peace and Social Justice Committee of Virginia Beach Friends Meeting placed a banner with the words 'Torture is Wrong' on the Meeting's property.
By the time we returned to worship a week later, the banner was gone. All that remains is the cut cords with which it had been tied between two trees.
Our limited budget lost $100, the price we paid for the banner. Yet, so much more has been lost. Friends (Quakers) were once known as 'Publishers of Truth.' We are respected for 'Letting our Lives Speak.' How ironic that this simple gesture to speak truth in hopes of beginning dialogue with the larger community has resulted in an action suppressing free speech.
Janis Ansell
Virginia Beach
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TR
I am actually disturbed by the reduction of our rights under the Bush admin. You tend to over simplify my positions. Honestly, I think the presidency should be handled like a mayors powers. They can vote, but their is a manager watching the books. Above all I am concerned w/ financial choices made by each new admin. Regardless of his party, I was worried as soon as Bush won his first election. His own father said he was suprised he won. I would bet you that many republicans(not all) would like to roll the clock back as well. Every party has wankers like this. The dems have Pelosi.
Rewrite history!
I know you historians have heard this one before, but it is an intriguing idea.
What if we had not followed through on fighting the Revolution against England?
England outlawed slavery 50 years before we did. If we had still been colonies, slavery would probably have ceased to exist here 50 years earlier. We would not only have avoided one war, but we would have avoided two of them.
And, Canada became independent of England 100 years after we did without firing a shot.
'Course that presupposes that England would have still let Canada be free without the U.S. as a template from earlier times! Hard to tell what choices would have branched off from an original choice to not fight the Revolution! Cheers, MGM
Ira - now you're just being a contrarian
Google "civil war" "rebellion" "US" and you get 604,000 hits including...
"The Great Rebellion ~ The American Civil War"
War of the Rebellion
The Official Records of the War of the Rebellion
The War of the Rebellion in Cornell University's Making of America
But enough w/ the word games. I'm guessing you agree w/ the Supreme Ct that once again Bush got it woefully wrong as to suspending habeas corpus.
That's not entirely true
"The southern states were rebelling against the UNION."
The states had an uneasy relationship over many issues. A deal was struck to where as new states were added to the union, they would be split by votes on certain issues to maintain balance. Slavery was indeed one of these issues. The northern half of the union broke it promises. The southern states took the same action that the colonies had taken years before by splitting w/ England. Both were business decisions. In addition, the issue of taxation w/o representation reared it's ugly head. If northern politicians tilt the balance to their favor it's not really a democracy. Lincoln blockaded Charleston to force his will on the city. The city responded in kind. In those days, the issues of state's rights were the predominant issue. There had been multiple issues that may have led to succession.Texas and northern Florida actually acted upon it at different times. The north built armies out of immigrants to maintain a source of raw materials and stem foreign influence in North America. If this is a rebellion then you would have to also respect the laws of England which would make the US invalid.
Phrog - the south lost, get over it
The Constitution's habeas suspension clause stipulates in the event of rebellion or invasion. The southern states were rebelling against the UNION. That fits the rebellion stipulation. A terrorist attack is not an invasion. The British army invading the US would be analogous. Or the Iraq army INVADING the US. Shrub's actions in suspending habeas were unconstitutional.
Men...
I don't necessarily see a stand against torture as a call for us all to get along. One is realistic (we can and should enforce rules of treaties we are signatories to), and the other is not (we cannot possibly hope that those who wish to do us harm will ever love us or even like us). I also stand by my original comments that the United States, as the greatest country on earth should have the highest standards of conduct. Regardless of what the evildoers in this world do. We are better than them and cannot change them.
Infamous words...
"People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?"
Rodney King - 1992
(His speech is read with the soft music of kumbaya playing in the background.)
Being nice
Tim, I agree, and I think most people agree that torture should not be done, but it is still going to be done regardless. Murder should not be committed and the law can take your life if you murder another person, but it still happens every day. Human emotions will, in the right set of circumstances, change us from nice people to craven, unethical, people who will do unspeakable things. It happens every day. People have advocated being nice to one another since time began and not much has changed.
To be
Oh,if we could only be the kind of people that we want other people to be.
Habeas Corpus
The 2006 Military Commissions Act was what really codified the denial of habeas corpus rights. What was so disgraceful about it was that it was passed by a bunch of craven politicians from both parties who were afraid to look "soft on terror". Interestingly, in the recent Supreme Court 5-4 decision, the solidly conservative Cato Institute filed a brief in support of the detainees. Even THEY thought this was an outrage.