Defense chief questions use of contractors for training

Those of you who keep complaining about contractors training the military – if you aren’t prepared to enlist in the military to help out, shut your pie holes.

“who would you rather protect you,the local police or Blackwater?” Having trained with them twice and worked with them in Iraq numerous times, I would say I would rather have Blackwater protect me than the local clowns in New Orleans. Then again, I depend upon myself for my own safety – Courts around the nation have ruled that local police forces have no obligation to protect the local populace. They are there to enforce the law, not prevent law breaking.

“War of lies.” Keep typing that - it doesn’t make it true. Being wrong isn’t the same as lying. Get a clue.

The troops are not meant to be a police force. In fact, I beleive that there is a problem w/ the constitution in them doing so. If you want the real problem though, I can tell you what it is and how to solve it. When people receive their training for mthe military for any kind of special ops, they are small in number. So each branch has these relatively small numbers of the best trained warriors. Then we go to war. They see this company willing to pay them more than they ever dreamed. Of course they jump ship at the first opportunity. You would have to somehow create a situation wheras the trained troops owe something for there training such as a longer enlistment. It is not uncommon for many rates to bail after the minimum where they have done nothing but train for years while providing little service. That's a tall order.

Yes, they are for hire and they cost us a fortune. The reason they are for hire is because our troops are fighting a war of lies, and not here protecting our own county in times of need.

A reader wrote "allows more service members to receive advanced tactical training". The "advanced tactical training" I received in Kuwait was a complete waste of time and money. "Check the block" and continue on.

I appreciate yoru sentiment but when you are on the ground in the need of protection there isn't much of a debate. Regardless of the reason for need, the need was there. I pose the question that if you were working in New Orleans; who would you rather protect you,the local police or Blackwater?

And why were they needed in New Orleans? Two reasons. One, because the majority of the local police officers fled instead of honoring their commitment "to protect and serve." Two, because the few officers who remained were busy confiscating legally owned firearms from the law abiding, who then had no way to protect themselves from the looters and other criminals running amuck.

"and it isn't likely Blackwater is around to protect us here in the states."

They are for hire as a private company. A large part of their receipts were derived from security in New Orleans after Katrina.

"We pay so many contractors because we gutted our military in the 90's."

Then there has been 18 years to un-gut our military. To all of us who are "ignorant" what's the hold up? It isn't just Blackwater, take a look at Cheney's Haliburton and the fortune they have made at our expense. The problem we "ignorant" people have is we no longer trust our government. We have been lied to over and over, and we are sick of the over spending and pay later plan of Bush. But what do we know, we are "ignorant".

We pay so many contractors because we gutted our military in the 90's. How about we plus-up the military to cold-war levels? Would that be cheaper? Or maybe more patriotic? Or what? What excatly is the problem that some of you people have in paying for a necessary service? Problem with Blackwater? If not them it would be someone else. Please people some of you are quite ignorant. Forget contractors in Iraq go check out a local base - maybe we should fire all the locals who are getting rich on our tax dollars. Educate yourself instead of making emotional and/or partisn statements on the use of contractors. Really, people....

jmo

I guess some would say it's just the price of war. Sorry, but this war of lies has cost us billions of dollars, thousands of dead, and thousands more wounded for life. To add insult to injury, we will spend billions more re-building the same county we bombed the heck out of. Ah America the land of the rich, but poor tax payers.

Many instructors leave the military and work for private companies because they know they can make more money that way. More money to the private contractor means less tax dollars to go around. As someone else already mentioned here, there is a major lack of oversight with these contractors. To them, our federal government is treated like the literal money tree with circus clowns handling oversight.

There is something wrong with the system when the military isn't training their own personnel.

“what happened to basic training?” There are two issues with this. Blackwater trains a lot of service members from noncombat fields from the Navy and the Air Force who do not get tactical training in their basic training courses but who are being sent overseas to augment the Army and the Marine Corps. The second issue is that basic training is exactly that - basic. Blackwater provides advanced training specific to the tactical environment in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are able to tailor training to whatever is required. There should be nothing controversial about this.

And to the people who complain about Blackwater’s security work abroad I pose this question: How many of the principals under their protection have been lost? That would be zero. They are paid to protect American lives and have been very good at it – that’s why the State Department renewed their contract despite all of the negative PR.

"Regardless of the immature jabs taken while sitting at your computers, I hope if I am ever in need of protection it will be from a qualified group such as Blackwater"

But look at the fortune out taxdollars have paid Blackwater. I'm sorry, but I have a major problem with that, and it isn't likely Blackwater is around to protect us here in the states.

"Contractor Combat training = grownup boys playing with guns."

Regardless of the immature jabs taken while sitting at your computers, I hope if I am ever in need of protection it will be from a qualified group such as Blackwater.

Nobody's here to train anyone right now. They are all deployed or deploying. At Portsmouth Naval Hospital, there are hardly any day nurses in uniform. Night shift, yes (seems like all male LCDR's) but day shift is all civilians right now. Many, many military personnel overseas on their second or third tour in the sandbox. Cheers, MGM

what happened to basic training?

This is much ado about nothing. The Pentagon isn’t contracting military training to save money but because it allows more service members to receive advanced tactical training. The military is on a war footing and most of the soldiers (etc) who would ordinarily be trainers are too busy fighting the war(s). Schools and training centers all over the military are suffering from a personnel shortage as the Pentagon’s personnel managers struggle with manning both the training centers and war fighting units. Without Blackwater and other companies like it the military would be unable to fill the training void, meaning that thousands of service members would not get the training. I have attended two courses at Blackwater. All of my instructors were former military (a couple were still in reserve components, including a Special Forces Guard unit) and all were combat veterans. The training was highly professional and proved its worth on my several deployments to Iraq.

Contractor Combat training = grownup boys playing with guns.

"Let the military train the military. It would be interesting to see a cost analysis and see if Blackwater is actually saving the government, and we taxpayers, any money by doing this."

My organization woul gladly conduct that research, but we need money to fund that research, lots of money.

Actually "Task Force Warrior" has already done the cost analysis concerning the Navy contracting out much of their training. Life-cycle costs of instructors are much more than contracted instructors. Also, an instructor in a three-year tour takes a year to get on line, and then may spend his last six-months to year in curriculum development. Contract instructors are usually retired military - the same guys who did the jobs on active duty so they know what the job involves.
If there is any probelms with contractor performance - that is an oversight function; something our entire government is not good at.

It is getting ridiculous when our government is outsourcing military training. Let the military train the military. It would be interesting to see a cost analysis and see if Blackwater is actually saving the government, and we taxpayers, any money by doing this.

"Webb’s letter to Gates on Monday asserted that the Pentagon needs “more rigorous, senior-level oversight” of its outsourcing activities. Webb wrote that Navy briefers have told him that until an individual contract exceeds $78.5 million, it need not be reviewed by the secretary of the Navy."

When did $78.5 million become a drop in the bucket?

I worked with a NAVY Contractor who provided ASW Training for the TSC MOCC (P3 Maritime Aircraft Community) who were in it only for the money!! Thier testing was rigged to provide excellent score results for the student's. Therefore students gave excellent feedback reports to thier superiors about the training received. End result was "everyone was HAPPY". However little real training was provided!! Contractor also used about 50% of his time to work on other "unrelated projects" for other companies and charged it to the NAVY thus doubling his profits. Contractor also hired his "relatives" and friends and bought supplies from friends and charged that to contract as well. Is that called "Equal Opportunity". The Military today does need to "Micro-Manage" these bottom feeding Contractors. They are like fleas on a "dog" once infested difficult to detect and remove!!!

To counter the backed up comment I seem to remember Blackwater little birds flying in ammo and picking up wounded when the zone was to hot for military helo's to fly into! What's next? How about we recrew all the MSC ships with active duty sailors and remove the Merchant Mariners? Just think on a Kaiser class tanker you could remove the 70 civilians with years of experience and recrew with 350 sailors fresh out of boot camp! Just make sure you have tech reps available at every port between here and the gulf!

Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks to spears. Let the weakling say,"I am strong!" Joel 3:10

When groups like Blackwater pull-out....our young sons will have to fill their shoes....draft the libs!

Unfortunately our government is like a pendulum it sways back and forth with contracting everything out to one extreme then bring it back into government the other extreme but with more management, more control and more burden on the government. Government needs to find the happy medium. It sounds like Gates is trying to put more red tape into the contract process. Gates should hold his Department Commanders responsible for fiscal responsibilities if he does not trust his commanders then he should do something about it. Unless he wants to micro-manage

"Blackwater and a select few other contractors have profited enormously from the invasion of Iraq... it's time to take their gains and move on.
"

So you have something against capitalism and freedom of enterprise?

Kudos to Webb. Blackwater and a select few other contractors have profited enormously from the invasion of Iraq... it's time to take their gains and move on.

webb holding up appointments to get his way. Suprise, suprise, such actions coming from the JUNIOR senator from Va. Ashamed to have this self serving individual represent the state that I reside in and NO, he'll be out of office before I move thank you.

to see how other countries we invade deal with the “security forces” the U.S. government hires. Department of State versus Department of Defense were the "main two" departments with each having different rules of engagement to "play by" and then there were other federal government departments and agencies with security forces in theater just to be part of the war. Blackwater was just one company, there are many, many more. And what of other nations, China, Iran, Pakistan for example who want to hire security forces to extend protection of and for the people? Darfur and Sudan could use some help with additional forces...but then there is no terror in these countries!

Combat vet 11B30 veni, vidi, i did not vici