Housing authority: St. Paul's Quadrant project moving too fast

We need more people in this country like you. You are/were self sufficient, took responsibility for your own actions, did not blame your situation on anybody else, and you did not expect a handout from the government. Do not let the bleeding hearts get to you.

To get into assistant living you first have to be involved with Social Services who are supposed to investigate the information provided to them. There in lies the problem. If there is fraud involved then Social Services should be treating it as such and people would loose there assistance status. What is not done is a complete investigation of Social Services. If we would address that problem we would see a complete difference in who does and does not qualify for assistance. If you want to write about somthing write about the fraud of Social Services itself, and demand a complete investigation. That's where the problem is.

I am wondering why my comment about not sending the current residents of the Tidewater Gardens projects to Portsmouth was censored. Whether it was a politically correct to say was irrelevant to me...what is relevent are the problems that escalate when large numbers of people are introduced to an area that is struggling to revitalize, and those people bring crime, poverty, and a propensity for wandering the streets. This is what my neighborhood is facing today as each housing project is closed down.

The economy doesn't have much to do with the situation in Tidewater Gardens. I agree that you can't support a family on $6.50 an hour, but then again, minimum wage is not supposed to be a life-long wage goal. And before you judge my comments, you should know exactly why I have the opinion that I do. I was married at 16 and had a child at 17. I got a GED the next year, and my husband also has only a high school education. And yes, I do have a $2000 mortgage. I raised my kids, they ate everyday and had plenty of clothes. They both graduated from high school and went to college, now they are self-supporting, just as we were. I am still married to the same man, and our success is due to a lot of hard work. We didn't expect the government to take care of us. I too worry about the effects of the economy on my finances, but if you are prepared you can weather any storm. And as for the elderly and disabled comment, you were way out of line. I was not being magnanimous, just practical. Social services and welfare was not designed to be a lifelong way of life for healthy people.

I'm not one, but I couldn't resist the gauntlet thrown down to *not* make bleeding heart comments in this public forum (what? is only one opinion invited in response to these *opinion* questions???), so I will respond to the adult who is supporting a family on $6.50 an hour that *that* was never meant to happen. Minimum wage is *supposed* to be for high school kids starting out at Mc Donald's and Pizza Hut, not for a family person. And it usually works out that way, as people work themselves up to raises throughout a career. How does a family person wind up working minimum wage anymore--is the system broken (are we allowing Best Buy and Circuit City and Haynes to pay minimum wage without comment) or is this just a "one off" situation of people who keep exiting and re-entering the job market at the same, beginning spot? Ideas? Cheers, MGM

Hey what a great idea! A 30,000 seat arena will draw thousands of low income people to it to watch major league basetball, ice hockey and baton twirling events. Of course, admission would have to be free. That is their life style. So, let's go with that. Can't wait. Get it going. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Include far more than public housing. In fact almost all the condo developments downtown were subsidized with public funds. The largest housing subsidy program in the country is the home mortgage interest deduction.

Bailing out these greedy money shufflers is going to cost you self-righteous bloggers a lot more than a bit of subsidized public housing.

Just exactly how much is this subsidized housing costing the city? Does anyone know? I do know that some of the folks living in the Tidewater Gardens Community have been there for decades. Are these folks abusing the "system"...? Michele's comments below are somewhat sad:

"I work with a girl who lives in subsidized housing. She drives a nice car, has cox cable on her large high-def TV and wears the latest fashions. Her son has a few different game systems for his obscene collection of video games (he just qualified for special ed. this year...) yet there is nary a book to be found. Oh yeah - and she is expecting another child, so her public assistance will increase."

You and others have all made politically incorrect commentary. I TOTALLY agree with each of you! Multi-generational public housing is a blight on any locality. I'm sick of supporting uneducated, irresponible, and arrogant leeches. They add NOTHING to the equation unless crime and sloth are considered quality adornments. I don't want to hear one word from the bleeding hearts about opportunity. The system has been in place for years and financially subsidized for those in need. The REAL change needs to start in the homes and attitudes of this facet of society. That does rarely happen but certainly not in the numbers needed to turn things around. Even my very liberal-minded (government schooled) pre-teen daughter sees the obvious indiscretions. Cut the apron strings and hand out cheap luggage to get them out of here. Take care of the elderly and infirmed ONLY. Do NOT allow these people to move their children, grand children, great grand children, and great great grand children into these subsidized complexes. Enforce it! Clean up the area and it will grow properous.

Aren't there a boatload of those FEMA trailers sitting in a field in the midwest somewhere? Use those if relocation is an issue.

How about an arena in that location ? Maybe that would attract a major sports franshise. Just a thought !

...silly council people!!!.Stick this puppy on the back burner and fix Wards Corner and Southern first!!!

To: 'jb59807':
God help you if in this economy that you should lose that fantastic job that pays your $2,000(maybe more)mortgage. I pray that you never have to feed your kids, pay rent, utilities, insurance, and buy clothes on $6.50 an hour. May you always be so blessed that when the city decides to develop your neighborhood, you will have your piok of places to relocate and be able to afford all the moving expenses. You wont need anyone to hold your hand while you pound the pavement looking for a safe neighborhood for your kids to live, because you have the financial means to employ a real estate agent to do this for you.
Oh, and by the way, the old, and the disabled are grateful for your kind thoughts. If they could, they would give you a standig ovation.

Where is it written that we must supply subsidized housing for anyone who wants it? And why must these folks be held by the hand and led to a new place to live when circumstances change? The city has been talking about revitalizing this area for a long time. This is not news to anyone that has been even half paying attention to what is going on around them. If you are not elderly or disabled, I am tired of taking care of you, and I really resent it when you whine about having to move out of an apartment that I am paying for. The city should create timetable for moving out of Tidewater Gardens, and everyone must be living elsewhere, paid for with their own funds and belongings moved with their own manpower by a given date. If you are elderly or disabled, that's what our social services were designed for, and we will continue to subsidize your living expenses. EVERYONE else needs to cut the apron strings and stand on their own two feet.

"I agree...while there is a need for affordable and low income housing...that area shouldn't be dedicated for that. Downtown could be extended with all that land. It would be smart if the city work on growing that area, especially with all the investment they already put into downtown. And I am not talking about just having condos. We need more entertainment venues, better paying jobs, etc. More projects similiar to Wachovia Center would be great..as well as a new Kirn Memorial Library, etc. Also thinking outside the box (unique projects and venues..especiallys something that HR and VA doesn't have) would definitely help Norfolk live up to its potential. Public housing in that area would not increase revenues, grow downtown and could cause problems due to the crime and reputation of the projects. I am for affordable housing and low income housing totally...but that is not the area for

Why is there no mention of relocating the Kirn Library here? Perfect place, right on St. Paul's Blvd where downtown shopping center has been torn down. The building where it has been temporarily relocated to, isn't in the best long term interests of the citizens of Norfolk and isn't large enough. Look at the VB central library as an example. It has an auditorium that can be reserved for special uses.... really nice.

Reshaping/redeveloping the St. Paul's Quadrant into a mixed-use area consisting of housing, retail, office and recreational use is ideal for the location. I do hope the city moves right along with its plan and progress continues.

Interestingly enough, when the economy is in a recession, that's theoretically when it's better to build. You build during a recession because you can get discounted lending rates and better deals on labor and supplies than if you build during a boom. So you build during a recession and occupy during a boom. The problem with this one is of course access to the debt they need. Also, I don't see how low-income residents will help to revitalize an area. Usually a true revitalization means raising rents and prices so as to move a new population which can support the local businesses. It happened in Charlottesville, and when we moved away prices were ridiculous, and for a city with 20% poverty, they still are. Go to the Downtown Mall area in Charlottesville and you'll see the results of a revitalization...but that wasn't with public monies (not all of it, at least).

The city of Norfolk has been discussing the redevelopment of St. Paul's Quadrant for years and finally a proposed plan has been put together. It's nice to see the wheels set in motion. This area is key to the growth and development of downtown, and as stated by another, a revitalized downtown is no place for public housing. Crime stems from the Tidewater Gardens Community and jeopardizes the safety of those who wish to visit and/or live downtown. Just last week a gentleman was shot behind the Popeyes off of St. Paul's Blvd. It's my belief that if the "projects" disappeared, it would only be of benefit to downtown Norfolk in the short and long-term. Hopefully the redevelopment of the area will aid Downtown’s ongoing effort to lower crime.

to me that with the economy being what it is and all the existing debt and city guarantees (see article on Waterside also in the paper today!) now is NOT the time for the expenditure of one cent more. Where is the fiscal responsibility?

with equal outcomes. equal opportunity went out with buggy whips and high-buttoned shoes.

Today's middle income could use housing assistance tomorrow. It CAN happen to you!

Take a drive around any subdivision in Norfolk and you will see dozens of unsold homes sitting on the market. Why on earth would adding 2000 homes seem like a good idea?

And why do those unable/unwilling to pay for their own housing get to have all new apartments - plus a place to live temporarily during construction? Where exactly does this temporary housing exist? Where exactly does this temp. housing exist? Who subsidizes the cell phone costs, cable TV, and car payments for public housing residents?

I work with a girl who lives in subsidized housing. She drives a nice car, has cox cable on her large high-def TV and wears the latest fashions. Her son has a few different game systems for his obscene collection of video games (he just qualified for special ed. this year...) yet there is nary a book to be found. Oh yeah - and she is expecting another child, so her public assistance will increase. Whe

Mike hit the nail on the head. Isn't it time we stop supporting the drug dealers and prostitutes with luxury apartments and make them get out and work a legit job for a change. Placing them back into the community with better housing will only increase the crime rates in that area.

How about setting a fair rent on the apartments and use a first come first serve system to find tenants. Why is it that Equal Opportunity housing has a maximum income level? A revitalized downtown is no place for public housing.