McCain supporters rally at Oceanfront

I am still waiting. I think TR is waiting for the quote to be taken off of Obama's website.

The best one was posted on Obama's own website as an excerpt of his own speech.

Beat down the other two then. I will check back here daily. Check out the links I provided. Heck, just listen to the man talk. In the end, I do not expect the campaign worker to listen to reason. As for my error...It was minor. I should have cross referenced before printing. Now let's get on to you answering some of the questions that have been pose to you on these boards.

For the other readers, I implore you to define what triangulation is and examine how Obama uses it. Notice he is never on any side. He presents the sides and then uses language to place himself above it. The man is not stupid and articulates this method well. That does not make him qualified to be president. Check out my links!

Ira, you did IN FACT incorrectly attributed Murtha's quote to BO. Your flailings aside, I ask for the umpteenth time, provide quotes FROM Obama that backup your "speedy withdrawl", "all troops out now", "Iraq flip flop" claims. If there are so many conflicting quotes from BO on this as you state, then finding BO quotes should be easy. There'd be no need to quote from winger sites like flopping aces, "obama lies" [sounds reputable ;)], or an editorial column for a uber-conservative magazine. There'd be no humorous gaffs where you attribute someone elses words to BO. Dont quote CB. Dont quote McCain campaign release statements. Dont quote the RNC. Just quote BO. I have provided many quotes from BO starting in 2005 that demonstrate a consistent, phased-withdrawl approach. An approach thats fairly similar to the candidate you had been backing before she lost.

I did in fact find that comment as attributed to Obama but I cannot find it now. It may have in fact been incorrectly attributed to Obama. I say this becasue I have found one line of the quote as TR stated being attributed to Murtha. My perception is that Obama quoted Murtha, not mis attributed by a web author. I will keep looking. I began to cite sources yesterday but the room is short here at the VP . I was able to confirm the two others though.

Oddly, TR has no problem with the readily avaialable public statements where Obama actually takes both sides of an issue. Nor does he address NAFTA, the muslim girl in the picture, the change in his Iraq stance, public campaign funds, the promise not to run, lack of platform, ect. Please look up the term 'triangulation' and cross reference Obama's brilliant use of it. The proof is out there if you care to look w/ an open mind.

I took them directly from Obama's campaign site. One was in response to Murtha whom he disagreed with in principle on some points.

Don't forget. I provided three examples. There are about 2 dozen more.

So please, for simplicities sake, let's assume yo uare right. What about the other two? Here is a link that gives a short list of other lies. It is in no way complete but it is fun reading. You are crafty TR. It must be hard to keep up.

http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_Obama/ObamaLies.htm

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MDk1MWI1MmQzZDY1YTNkYTgwODA4ZDU0YzI0NjJjYmY=
http://www.floppingaces.net/2008/04/02/the-liberal-questionaire-obamas-lies/

... to the Murtha quotes your incorrectly attributed to Obama.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/3750

Absolutely Hilarious! That last quote of yours was NOT from Obama. It was from Murtha.

"Man, this is easy."

Yet, you failed such an "easy" task. But then accuracy has never been an issue with your and CB's made-up quotes. I recommend against accepting McCain campaign press releases as gospel.

As to BO's "ending this war" statements, that does start with a phased withdrawl. See my reference to the 16th month statement. Something he's been saying since 2005.

In case your curious, the most intriguing comment was cited from Obama's website.

alienlifeform- Objective debate is not hostile. Please stay on the subject. BTW, welcome to our planet. I have the number of a Teletubbie for you.

You gotta get the rules down right, man!

If the article is about a McCain rally, the Obama supporters rush to comment on it. And vice versa.
If the article is about something that a person personally dislikes or finds useless (like a church service at the convention center to pledge abstinence till marriage), that person rushes to tell the kids that they will never keep the vow and to ask the editors why they would ever consider something involving one of our largest area churches to be newsworthy in the first place. See the trend? You have to loudly criticize everyone else's actions and ideas.
I think, in short, that most comments here are meant to stir up controversy, not to reach consensus. Anyway, my thoughts, MGM

Here's one from the New York Times that was written by him:

"on my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war."

Go ahead, spin it. Or this one:

"It is past time to end this war that should never have been waged by bringing our troops home."

-Or-

"I believe we need to turn Iraq over to the Iraqis. I believe before the Iraqi elections, scheduled for mid-December, the Iraqi people and the emerging government must be put on notice. The United States will immediately redeploy - immediately redeploy. No schedule which can be changed, nothing that's controlled by the Iraqis, this is an immediate redeployment of our American forces"

Man, this is easy.

Show me where he said "speedy withdrawl" or "all troops out now". You cant because he hasnt. He's been very consistent.

Nov05: we have to manage our exit in a responsible way ... we need not a time-table... but a time-frame for such a phased withdrawal.

Jun06: a precipitous withdrawal of our troops will not undo the mistakes made by this Admin. We must exit Iraq, but not in a way that leaves behind a security vacuum...

Nov06: Obama envisioned a flexible timetable for withdrawal linked to conditions on the ground in Iraq & based on the advice of U.S. commanders.

Jan07: plan for phased redeployment... Drawing down our troops in Iraq will put pressure on Iraqis to arrive at the political settlement that is needed

"Yes, 16 months. "Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began."

What military experts? It would seem your last post ended w/ discrediting the single most knowledgeable man in the region.

Again, you disregard your own statements. You know he began his campaign on the premise of a speedy withdrawal. Then he found out what a huge error that could be. Then he flip flopped around about the timeline. Now he say's it depends upon the conditions on the ground, yet ignores the commanders. He said the surge would fail but then set a longer timeline to get out. C.B. is right in the fact that this man's agenda changes so often it is hard to keep track. It is literally confusing to explain his zig zag trail.

"So is Obama for a quick withdrawal..."

Where does Obama say "quick withdrawl"?

Is he for a "16 month withdrawal"?

Yes, 16 months. "Military experts believe we can safely redeploy combat brigades from Iraq at a pace of 1 to 2 brigades a month that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 – more than 7 years after the war began."

Is he "heeding advice from the military commanders"?

Yes. "The notion is that either I do exactly what my military commanders [say] or I'm ignoring their advice. No, I'm factoring in their advice, but placing it in the broader strategic framework that's required."

I like the broader picture management style that he hits on. I find it more rational than McCain's Iraq myopia.

"Offer real quotes that BO made. Simple."

Why bother? He wouldn't address the inconsistencies if Obama was standing in front of him. The type of argument he offers only works when the audience cannot respond.

Dont make up your own quotes. Offer real quotes that BO made. Simple.

I am not misquoting anyone or making things up because the platform that you try to "quote" has too many "quotes" to keep up with. I will not try to analyze every statement that NObama makes because his message changes so often (talk about change). Ira is completely correct in that NObama orginally ran on a "pull the troops out now because I was against this illegal war from the start" campaign. Now the story is as fluid as "I tell you what you want to hear today but I reserve the right to change my mind tomorrow". That is what he has been saying all along. No stance, no spine, no concrete message, no plan, all lip service!!!

"He wants to retain as much flexibility as possible," Obama said. "What I emphasized to him was ... if I were in his shoes, I'd probably feel the same way. But my job as a candidate for president and a potential commander in chief extends beyond Iraq."

So now a short trip to the middle east and he is an expert on these things? So is he for a quick withdrawal which he touted at the start of his campaign, an 18 month withdrawal, or heeding the advice of the commanders as he has cited? According to his own statements he feels his knowledge and perspective outweighs the general. Isn't it the truth that he has no plan and is simply saying whatever it is that people want to hear? All the while modifying his message as he reaches milestones in his campaign?

I am currently planning a trip to Wisconsin as once I touch down in the state I will be an expert on cheese.

What about mine? I didn't make mine up. So is Obama for a quick withdrawal, 16 month withdrawal, or is he heeding advice from the military commanders?

It seems to me per his own words he has cited his political position as being more important than listening to the commanders. In addition, since when does a quick trip and brief conversations make someone an expert in any subject? It takes years just to complete college level English but the Wizard of Oz here can become an expert on the middle east and the direction we should take overnight?

C'mon. Why do you always 'cut and run' when someone shows you the facts from Obamas own mouth? Is that the campaign standard? Am I "bringing you down man?"

He has always been saying "we should be willing to adjust to realities on the ground". Also, how does 1 & 1/4 years means "all our troops out now" as CB stated/made up? Thats a very odd take.

He told reporters that Petraeus asked for "as much flexibility as possible," ... he understood Petraeus' desire but told the general that his own job as commander in chief "extends beyond Iraq."

He was asked whether he was ignoring his commanders' advice. He rejected that premise, saying:

"The notion is that either I do exactly what my military commanders [say] or I'm ignoring their advice. No, I'm factoring in their advice, but placing it in the broader strategic framework that's required."

Thats my point. Thou makeith it up.

Iraq.

Tucker Bounds, spokesman for Republican candidate John McCain, responded, "By admitting that his plan for withdrawal places him at odds with Gen. David Petraeus, Barack Obama has made clear that his goal remains unconditional withdrawal rather than securing the victory our troops have earned."

I have provided quotes and specific links in this argument that have previously ignored. I cannot convince a campaign member not to support a candidate. However, this doozy came today:

"He reiterated his goal of withdrawing combat troops from Iraq within 16 months of becoming president. But he said he would consult with military commanders to determine how many troops to keep in the country to protect diplomatic and humanitarian operations, to train Iraqis and to conduct counterterrorism operations against al-Qaida in Iraq.

"My goal is to no longer have U.S. troops engaged in combat operations in Iraq," he said.

Obama acknowledged that the U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, does not want a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. combat forces.

"He wants to retain as much flexibility as possible," Obama said. "What I emphasized to him was ... if I were in his shoes, I'd probably feel

My comments in quotes are not meant to be quotes by NObama, just the underlying message of his ever changing stance on Iraq and the middle east. His Illinois fifty step dance is really starting to make me barf since everything that he is now coming up with are old old contingencies that have already been on the table long ago. What is he coming up with that is new besides his watery daily stance on the middle east? This is classic bait and switch because he diverts your attention from the true agenda. Please don't insult everyone elses intelligence by claiming otherwise.

Do you notice a difference, a contrast between these 2 statements?

CB: "all out withdrawal now"

BO: "We cannot compromise on the safety of our troops, and we should be willing to adjust to realities on the ground" (Nov '06)

Regarding your claim of 'shifting plans', please cite specific statements that BO has made that defend your claim. But please dont use make-believe quotes that CB conjures up.

I need some help understanding. Which one of Obama's "Iraq" withdrawal plans was that one? One of the old ones or new ones? There is far too much reading on his ever evolving 'plan' for me to verify your quote.

I wonder if he will force people with muslim head covering out of his pictures while in the middle east?

I know elections are often bought but this is the most staged and predictable show I have ever seen. This is in fact reality TV. It reminds me of 'Best in Show.'

... what BO has been saying all along (as demonstrated by my Nov'06 quote). And that is...

Nov 06: "We cannot compromise on the safety of our troops, and we should be willing to adjust to realities on the ground," he said.

Malaki has endorsed his plan. The Iraqis want us gone. The US public wants us to leave. Even "TimeHorizon" GeeDub has just now come on board. As Afghanistan lurches closer to failed statehood with the Taliban growing stronger, maybe we can now direct the proper amt of troops & resources to the place where we should have been all along. As BO has been calling for 18 months now. A plan which JM just tried to make his own after hearing BOs call for more troops there.

Short of suddenly dropping dead (a Democrap wet dream) there is NO way John McCain can lose this election. As the NObama onion layers get peeled off, one at a time, the watering eyes will realize the Messiah is not coming back in BHO.

... won't post my reply to aliens.

Obama by his own admission is not sure of his Iraq plan. He is not sure of what he is talking about. The poster heralding him below (TR) has dodged this issue in the past. Everytime Obama learns something new he reinvents his platform all the while saying it stayed the same. Fodder for the sheep. Pure nonsense.