Sen. Lucas' plan for conference center-hotel denied funding

You will probably never read this. I wrote back because I put a lot of thought into your comments. Stories told to me by my grandfather are what I think of the most. He described a Klan rally he saw in progress and when he told the story, I realized, even as a child that he was angry. What he witnessed made him ill. So I understand that it is difficult for people of my age to quanitfy. I empathise w/ your description but it is time to let it go. The Mayor's comments were actually hurtful to Portsmouth. Is it going to be worse for the "white" hotel on the waterfront because a large part of Portsmouth's population is black, or the white people who now feel less than equal there?

My comments in my last post, which you felt are irrelevant, were in response to another poster's comments. Therefore, my comments are only as relevant as his. I'm not one that got passed over for promotion in my scenario. I'm retired. Yet, it can't be justified, that a high school dropout, with no supervisory experience what so ever, with the least amount of experience within a dept., being promoted over others with more experience in the field, with supervisory experience to boot. The only advantage this guy has is complexion. I don't insult persons I don't know. Neither did I grant you, the right to attempt to insult me. Cease & desist. One can be adamant, without resulting to insults. Common sense doesn't give one knowledge of logistics, which is the dept in my scenario.

But that's neither here nor there.

You can't condone Holly's words but you can understand the frustration behind them. As many of the posts here make clear, racism - the white kind - is still very much alive.

Why wouldn't he be suspicious and angry, especially if he felt a new standard was being imposed?

I would be interested to know the answer to Heretick's questions. Is it the size of the project, the risk of the project or the backers of the project?

Your comment is the most asinine I've seen in a LONG time. When will you learn the race card has been cut from the deck? Your statements have NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THIS PROPOSAL WAS DEFEATED ON IT'S LAKE OF MERIT! Thank God we have elected officials that listen to the citizens and voted down another get rich scheme for Ludacous. As to your beef that a "white man without a high school diploma" is your boss, did you ever think he had something you don't? Common sense.

If you would explain to me, how a White individual, unable to read, could tell my college educated grandfather that he was too illiterate to register to vote. Or why a White man, who didn't finish high school, never got a GED, never served in the military & has no previous supervisory experience, just got a promotion to supervise 25 people, Black & White, male & female, while all the Blacks & women in his dept. have college degrees & military backgrounds, with an average of 15 years supervisory experience, both military & civilian. If things were as some seem to think, Black's wouldn't make up only 3% of management positions, civilian or govt. We all need to be real. Blacks with credit scores over 750 or 850,(depending on which agency), have a harder time getting financing than Whites, with much lower scores. Why?

Ouch!

Explain the whole VBPD math exam then? While you're at it...the Hampton FD hiring process and the Ches. FD hiring process as well.

I'm not attempting to imply it's any one's turn to face discrimination. I'm sorry if you sense that. I attempt to only state facts. The initial purpose of affirmative action, was to have employers & universities consider people other than groups that, through tradition, custom, law, etc., were primarily the only groups considered, for openings existing in their institutions. This is why the plan never applied to Blacks alone but to women, religious minorities, other racial & ethnic groups, & to Whites, in cases in which they would be minorities. I agree that many intangibles should be considered in the hiring & admittance of persons into entities. Everyone is not as open & reasoned in their opinions as you. I know you realize, that a person admitted or hired through affirmative action plans, regardless of race, gender , etc., has to be qualified. Too many of our fellow citizens seem unaw

"You seem to be upset that a qualified minority may get a position that a qualified White didn't. "

There you go again. Whether you realize it or not, you also alluded that it is sort of the "whites" turn to be discriminated. As for qualifiying for a job based on education and experience, it often does not matter. As an employer, I will hire whoever it is that can perform the best. Superior education may hold a spot in acadameia but not in the real world. In the end if someone is promoted, or not hired due to their ethnicity or color(whatever), it is wrong.

You seem very sincere. Perhaps you are not aware of your tone?

Throughout our history, one ethnic & gender group, decided norms & standards, on which we all are judged. Only if a racial, ethnic, gender, or religious minority is the group setting what the norms & standards are, could there be factual reverse discrimination. Courts, Congress, etc., have made decisions that were incorrect & later corrected. You may look these facts up if you like. I've not once, defended Dr. Holley's or anyone else's, bigoted statements. You seem to be upset that a qualified minority may get a position that a qualified White didn't. That's understandable. You need to know, that practice, was used, legally, against Blacks, Jews, Muslims, other religious minorities, Latinos, Native Americans & women, of all races, for most of our history. It was legal, to pay minorities less than White men, for the same positions, even if the minority person was more experienced & better educated. This was still legal in my lifetime.

In all fairness, Mayor Obendorf is Jewish. Exactly who is it she was biased towards? That was a silly comparison.

Councilman Heretick cast one of two votes in favor of the Lucas proposal----Why? Seems that after not finding his council seat to be the successful springboard for an elected position in Richmond, he is looking for another way to secure his future. That could very well be an appointment to the bench in Portsmouth, as a Judge. Who controls these appointments? Answer---Sen. Louise Lucas! He puts his personal interests above those of the citizens who elected him to Council. As he said Tuesday night----God help us!

I know Mayor Holley to be a person that always speaks of the Portsmouth Family. I believe he is getting up in years and may be a little off kilter sometime. I speak as an African American, and I apologize to my fellow citizens for his comments. That was not the Mayor that we know to love Portsmouth and its people. We all must work and live together for the good of our city. The concerns voiced about the Lucas project, were legitimate concerns. I welcome freedom of speech and the right to dissent. I do not welcome hateful racially divisive rhetoric. God forgive and bless the Mayor and God bless all of Portsmouth's citizens - black, white and brown.

I emailed council@portsmouthva.gov to let them know how I felt about Mayor Holley's comments. Not being a resident of Portsmouth, I don't know how much credence will be given to my email, but I did what I could.

People, the mayor was not playing the race card, he was simply acknowledging a smart business prospect. Although I can agree with the council for voting No w/o the gurantee that city funds would not be used, the mayor was simply stating a true fact about Portsmouth. There is a major population of middle class minorities who do not spend money in parts of Portsmouth because they do not feel welcomed. When the mayor stated that it would be a black hotel, I think that he was referring to two things. Portsmouth is rich in African American local history & many of the well off middle class where born & raised here, by having a minority locally owned hotel, that would encourage the business of these individuals to stay here, home in Portsmouth. The Renaisance, although nice, is catered to the Old town residents, but most of them were not raised here. Thats were part of the feeling not welcomed come from, b

I am stunned by Mayor Holley's racist comments, especially this day and age. He definitely sets the region back a hundred years. Racism of any sort, toward ANY race is completely unacceptable in America. Mayor Holley should not get any sort of a free ride for what he said: at minimum he should be reprimanded and have to give the people of the City of Portsmouth an apology. The maximum would be to force him to step down from office.

If any white mayor or for that matter white official in ANY American city would have said the same things about any other race in this country, people all over the country would have been calling for his head, not just his resignation. What Mayor Holley did was fan the flames of racism and all its terrible ugliness. He should not be able to get away with it. Citizens of the City of Portsmouth: you deserve a better Mayor.

without using profanity or foul language of any sort, i asked if you were in the pockets of some area political figures. nothing bad is EVER said about obendorf, and you bury some serious racism in the last 2 lines of an article.

so why was my post deleted??

Twomiler...perhaps you could cite a reference that backs up your definition of racism. I am personally not able to find anything and I have to disagree.

Wikipedia (and other sources) have the following to say:

Racism, by its simplest definition, is discrimination based on the racial groups to which people belong. People with racist beliefs might hate certain groups of people according to their racial groups. In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment. Racism typically points out taxonomic differences between different groups of people, even though anybody can be racialised, independently of their somatic differences. According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.

Being a white female, I can't tell you that I know what you've been thu nor that I can relate to your past experiences on any level. What I can tell you is that the first time any of my three kids heard the "N" word (or any other racial slur for that matter) was in school, from other children in their class. Black children. Black children who used that word and others, liberally. How do you tell your child it's a hateful word, one that's appalling for them to use (and in fact instills a fear in white parents that their child may use it and be branded a racist) when their friends are using it like it's no big deal. How do you explain that double-standard and then have them see comments from our Mayor that just perpetuate the same us/them mind set. My kids were unware of any real difference until I had to tell them it's OK for their black friends to say these things, but not them...

I thought all Hotels are Red and Houses Green. Doesn't anyone play Monopoly?

Please explain how asner and miller skew facts.

n A term used to refer to the exclusion of a member of a majority class not commonly discriminated against, to compensate for the traditional discrimination against a minority member. For example, management positions traditionally filled by members of the white race would be filled by African Americans, Asians, or Hispanics to the exclusion of any white candidates, even if the latter had seniority or were better qualified by reason of education, expertise, or temperament. It has been contended that such treatment, broadly known as affirmative action, is in violation of the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the United States Constitution, as well as Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Thank goodness that I work in an environment where this local racial garbage isn't tolerated by any racial body. You people need to stop defending this behavior and oust your mayor.

"In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get "preferential treatment"." You and 2miller can talk nonsense all you want and try to skew the facts with long windy diversion but you yourself proved my point. Thank you.

I read the article this morning concerning last night's city council meeting and was appauled by the Pilot's report. Throughout the day, this has been the main topic of discussion and no one can believe the audacity of our city mayor to make such racial toned comments. I visited the WAVY TV web site and watched the clip of Holley making his comments. I would have to say that after hearing his comments from the broadcast that it is a lot worse than the watered down version that the Pilot submitted. I think either Elizabeth Psimas or Bill Moody should replace Holley as mayor. We need real leadership in Portsmouth.

I've known Mayor Holley for over 30 years and have never thought of him as a racist and still don't . I do not agree with his comments or the hotel plan .
BTW , I am Irish American / Native American , 2 groups that have known their fair share of racism .
Every day I do see a lot of bigotry in Portsmouth from many sources , but never the Mayor . I wont mention any state senators for whom I have lost all respect , but won't vote for her again .

When I was watching the news clips of the council meeting, I was stunned to hear Holley throw the race card. But then isn't that what black politicians usually do when they don't get their way? I guess Holley took a page from the Riddick/Williams playbook on this side of the harbor. I imagine Sharpton and Jackson will also have something to say on this.

The majority of the comments have been about the question of funding and undue political influence, not black/white. Never once did I hear/read ANYONE say "we already have a WHITE hotel; we don't need a BLACK one".

Disgusting.

I truly appreciate you teaching your children to be great people, Squirrelly. That's a wonderful thing to do. Elsie-eye, the insults by Dr. Holley, though racially bigoted, aren't racism because they're not protected by laws as acts of racism were. Idiotic, bigoted comments are just that. Racism is lawful, institutional bigotry. This nation suffered through 400 years of that travesty. Now, there is covert bigotry, on all sides, that doesn't amount to racism because it's not enforced by laws.

I can't wait until the next election in Portsmouth. I plan on running for City Council at that time. I have respect for my elders that are in the position now however they don't understand the younger generations. We are a more integrated people. There still is rascism but that's because it is human nature to react to those that are different than you. Different people react in different ways.

I live about 2 miles from the proposed spot and would love to see it built but the comments about it being a Black hotel are silly. A hotel would be great for that area with the other additions that are coming.

How is the Renaissance (i.e., Marriott) a white owned hotel when Marriott is a publicly traded company on the NYSE (MAR)? Catch a clue: the only color the Marriott or the NYSE cares about is green!!!

And to those who would excuse the comments made by the mayor by citing alleged trials and tribulations from the past...please let's not forget that Mayor Holley and his family HAVE very successful black-owned businesses...they are dentists and lawyers with private school educations in private practice in Portsmouth.

Everyone has the opportunity to be successful in this day and age.

How many blatant ethical violations, ridiculous decisions (create a city job for a murderer anyone?), and how many millions of our tax dollars will be wasted by our local leaders before the "system" completely breaks down? Everyone in charge seems to be looking the other way while holding an open hand behind their back.

Holley racist ramblings... I expected that. This isn't new behavior. I'm surprised he hasn't learned to keep his mouth shut. Some people just don't learn I guess...

But what really gets me is the audacity of Lucas and her crew to believe they can secure those bonds for their PRIVATE venture. Evidently her Senate seat is simply a convenient vehicle for her to manipulate, profit from, and enrich her inner circle.