Virginia Beach sees options for post-SPSA trash handling

A pair of reports at Tuesday's council meeting showed no environmental or health concerns should stop development of an urban landfill.

Much like the lake at Trashmore 1?

Who wrote these reports, Reba or Meyera...

It wouldn't be Talknet without Henry chiming in.

The point Mike made - and that Reid overlooks - is that the 2018 go-it-alone option for Virginia Beach is based on using a landfill that has limited capacity left. Once that is used, we'd need a new landfill, go through the permitting process, etc. In short, while the short-term costs may be lower than what we're paying today, the medium term costs would reflect the additional landfill costs.

Mike brought up bus service, while I Chair a HRT Committee (UCAC). When Virginia Beach looked at going-it-alone at the time of the TRT/Pentran merger, our cost for providing the service would have been 250-300% higher.

Regionalism is neither a good nor an evil in itself; the devil is in the details.

Of course I would suggest that one review the first post on this forum; no objective reader nor citizen could confuse that post with an attempt to..."share(ing) the light of truth with others". No, Greenmun is the official spokesman of the VBTA, and his continuous misrepresentation of the truth, and his vile condemnations of anyone who points that out, is clear if you review his posts on this and other topics. Frankly, as a member of the Board of SPSA, and as the recipient of the initial personal attack on this forum, I will do my best to provide current, factual information in rebuttal of posts which are simply untruthful, but beyond that, I admit to having provided a counter punch or two as well. That will continue if personal attacks continue, and in every case in which an inaccurate conclusion is presented by Greenmun as fact, that too will be pointed out. The credibility of the VBTA has suffered greatly becasue of the exaggeration and misrepresentation by its colunmists and spokesman. That has to stop.

Robert, I prefer to think of my efforts here as one of sharing the light of truth with others in an effort to counter Mike's many misleading Talking Points and the many excuses he tries hard to pass off as explanations for the failure of his quest for creating non-elected regional government to produce any reduction in our taxes. Robert, TalkNet died for many reasons, but I agree with you that acrimony and vitriol between "the TalkNet family" was a significant factor. Peace out.

and stop the personal attacks.

Disagreeing and offering a pint of view is one thing..... continuing to attack each other in print is lame and boring at best.

Come on guys...... the Reid versus Mike show died on Talknet, didn't it?

After all, it's most likely things similar to this type of rhetoric that lead to the demise of Talknet and one day will eventually be the demise of the comment section.

Well, let's be honest Reid; to you and your fellow ideologues, no results would be satisfactory. You all have adopted the Grover Norquist, no tax pledge, and his extreme views of all government activity. When you pledge to abide by his extreme views, any government activity, even those you enjoy everyday, are subject to the most intense and extreme criticism. Norquist has famously said to his followers... our job is to cut the arms and legs off government so it can be placed in a bathtub and drowned. That just about describes your posts.

Gee Mike, all those things sure sound great - too bad they fail to produce the promised results.

Another inciteful comment from daBull. Yes, let's duplicate regional services in each city of Hampton Roads. That will most certainly save cost, increase efficiency, and reduce taxes. Not! Let's have each city and county run its own bus service. And sanitary sewer systems, yes, let us create an entirely new infrastructure so our waste does not mix. Landfill, yes, create one in each city just like we used to have so each city can be cited by EPA and its leaders placed in jail for running illegal dumps. And economic development, of course, each city should establish an office in Europe and Asia, that will be much more effective than one office shared by all the cities. Of course, if you are an anti tax zealot for whom ideology trumps common sense and business practice, you will propose anything. Just like daBull.

Regionalism...Socialism...call it what you wish. They really don't care as long as the hand stays in the "cookie jar". Sing this to the old Sonny and Cher song "The Beat Goes On"....."And the looting goes on, the looting goes on"....and on and on and on.....

Too bad you can't really even understand the facts when they are broken down into tiny understandable bits. Back in 1984 when the city made the deal with SPSA, the city determined that is was cost effective to join the regional entity. As a result of that decision, much of the improvements and the expansion of the V.B. landfill have been made at the cost of SPSA as required by the agreement. Now in 2018, when the contract expires, the City will have had the benefit of a reduced rate to dispose of municipal waste, and we will have an improved and expanded landfill that we can use post 2018 if we chose to adopt that alternative. In other words, the city staff was able to make the claim that they may be able to dispose of waste at a lower cost than SPSA in 2018 because of the investment SPSA has made in that Landfill. Your anger and your ideology does not allow you to use your head to understand the facts. What el

I appreciate your insightful commentary Burt. All great points. All the more reason that "regionalism" is a huge scam designed to benefit some cities at the expense of others, and all the while, INCREASING net costs to everyone! Of course, the oversight of SPSA is an all-appointed board that is notaccountable to the taxpayers. That is how guys like Mike Barrett are empowered to "represent" the largest (most populated) city in the Commonwealth - and run up huge debt!

Interesting Discussion but we are missing the point because of emotions. Here are some facts that are not disputed. VB pays SPSA a maximum of $58+/- per ton based on our "special deal". The actual cost is $100 so the other cities are paying the freight for VB's discount. Now, the Cities (except VB) have passed flow control that give SPSA a monopoly on the private haulers and more importantly thier customers who employ, feed and provide services our citizens. End result, businesses who have been paying $30/ton will now pay $80/ton, so the Cities can pay $80 while VB continues to pay $58. Get ready folks. When the price goes up on our restuarants, food stores and employers, higher prices, smaller raises and layoffs are coming. All of that so that SPSA can keep operating out of control when any one of three private companies would dispose of the waste for $30 all day long for the next 30 years. Our gov

So it does cost us more to use the REGIONAL authority then to take care of our own trash! Thanks for admitting that simple truth Mike. And this higher cost for using SPSA is including the special lower rates the Beach pays - meaning the other cities using the REGIONAL APPROACH are get ripped off even more!

Well Reid, perhaps you miss some of the basic logic of my earlier post. Let me try to spell it out for you in small, discreet, easy to understand facts so it will not challenge your over excited brain, which clearly is designed to atttack first, get the facts later. The Beach does have a permitted landfill, built years ago at the costs charged then. So to say that we could use it to dispose of our waste post 2018 at a lower cost than in a new regional landfill is certainly true. But, once that capacity is filled, we don't have that option any longer, and if we then have to buy that capacity from someone else, we would not have the same bargaining chip. And of course, Reid, we have that chip now because we made a deal to join SPSA, and for most of SPSA's life, we have paid very low rates to dispose of municipal waste without filling up our own landfill. If for once in your life you stopped jumping to ill advised conclusions and stopped using character assassination, perhaps you may be able to make a valuable contribution instead of being a minor irritant.

Hi Mike, just as I predicted, you attempt to obfuscate. Here is what the article reveals about the mismanaged REGIONAL waste scam - the article states: "On the flip side, if the city ran its own waste system, officials said it would cost less than what SPSA charges for the service - even if Virginia Beach built a facility with broad buffers. The savings could be millions of dollars a year."

Good questions. In essence, the board has recently adopted policies long sought by Virginia Beach that will ensure that the debt that SPSA incurred to build the facilities (landfill, refuse derived fuel plant, waste to energy plant, transfer stations, and transportation fleet) will be paid off by the end of the term of the municipal contracts, which is February 1, 2018. Each year, the debt schedule will be reviewed and adjustments made to ensure that this policy is followed. The debt is not a debt of the members, and the collateral that the bondholders have for repayment is the revenue SPSA gets from our customers. In the future, each member will have to decide how it wants to dispose of its municipal waste after the contract with SPSA expires, and the article in the Pilot reported on initial steps that the City of Virginia Beach is taking to evaluate its alternatives.

I still don't understand the debt issue. Will the 250 million dollar debt be paid off? Will it be assigned by percentages back to the cities when SPSA ceases to exist? Is there a projection of what the sale of assets will bring vs the debt?

OK, here's the reality folks. SPSA charges $100 per ton to burn the garbage which puts toxins in the air we all breath. The by-product of that burning (called ash), still weighs 50% of what came in the front side and is loaded with heavy metals that are also toxic. Guess where this toxic ash is disposed of. That's right folks, a REGIONAL LANDFILL, that is located IN the Great Dismal Swamp. If Chesapeake had kept its nose out of NC and let the private regional landfill be built in a very rural area where there are only 10 homes within 1000 feet of the landfill, the same $100 ton of garbage could have been safely disposed of for about $25. Our politicians are going to try and tell us its ok to build a landfill in the middle of a city and all the bad things can be handled with technology but building one in the middle of nowhere was too dangerous because it might harm the Dismal SWAMP. What is wrong with these peop

Well, I would hope posters to this forum would focus on the well written story and leave Greenmun to spin his fairy tales for his own pleasure and edification. Fact is, every city that is a member of SPSA is, or should be, reviewing its options in regard to the disposal of municipal solid waste, because the contracts that jurisdictions signed with SPSA expire in 2018. And in some respects, it is deja vu all over again. When SPSA was originally formed, Virginia Beach had its own landfill, and it only decided to join SPSA because it reached a special deal, which has served us well, and because having an option is often better than using it up. The waste to energy plant had value for all of us, and the use of refuse derived fuel benefits the Navy and the ecology. All that said, it is reasonable to review our options, and these decisions must be made with a long term view. For once we use our option, it is gone,

Well look at this article again. Yup, there it is - right there in print. The much promoted "regionalsim" blather is exposed for the sham it really is - a way to fleece the taxpayers of Virginia Beach to offset costs for other cities in Tidewater. You see, Mike Barrett's mismanaged regional trash authority, laboring under huge debt is actually more costly then if we were to take care of our own trash. I am sure Mike will have all manner of talking points to try to explain away the failure of his quest for all-appointed regional government, but in the end - the story reveals the truth; SPSA costs Beach taxpayers MORE than if we were to take care of our own trash. Just more proof that "regionalism" combined with guys like Mike Barrett is a bad deal for Beach taxpayers.