RICHMOND
Traffic tolls are coming to Hampton Roads.
But when and how much are unknown. Those answers largely depend on the General Assembly reaching elusive agreements on funding road projects in the region and across the state.
Financing is being sought for seven local projects, including a third crossing over the James River, a two-lane expansion of the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel, and a new U.S. 460 running northwest from Suffolk.
The cost of all seven projects is more than $10 billion and growing because of the rising prices of iron, steel and concrete.
Lawmakers are seeking a blend of three funding sources: public money, tolls and private money, which would come from a company willing to build a project and invest capital that, theoretically, would be richly returned through a long-term share of the tolls.
A fight over the best source of public money has tied up the General Assembly for most of the decade, including during a special transportation session scheduled to reconvene Wednesday.
At issue is whether taxes and fees should be increased for transportation or whether the state should take a different step, such as using money earmarked for other services or dedicating budget surpluses left over some years to roads.
While the debate roars in the General Assembly, planners in Richmond and Hampton Roads are quietly studying the tolling that will be required for some of the seven regional projects.
These are not the tolls of old that stopped traffic and required the deposit of coins. Planners are talking about
E-ZPass systems that are electronically tied to credit card accounts. There's mention of camera systems that photograph license plates for billing and allow cars to pass at 60 mph.
The key is setting a proper amount to charge - a balancing point that yields ample revenue to pay for the roadway while not discouraging drivers from using it.
"If you set it to produce maximum revenues, there's a chance you could chase away enough people to sacrifice the purpose of the project," said Dwight Farmer, executive director of the Hampton Roads Planning District Commission.
Generally, tolls pay for about one-third of a project's cost, Farmer said.
Another guideline is not to put a toll on a road, tunnel or bridge that has no alternative route. For example, those unwilling to pay a toll to cross an expanded Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel might still have free use of the Monitor-Merrimac Memorial Bridge-Tunnel.
The alternate-route guideline would be broken by one of the local projects, however. An expansion of the Midtown Tunnel calls for tolls on that facility as well as the Downtown Tunnel, leaving no free, direct route between Norfolk and Portsmouth.
"This is a very important issue," said Secretary of Transportation Homer Pierce. "Tolling an existing road for which there is no alternative route is something we haven't done. We have to make a reasoned case to the affected commuters."
Since late 2006, the Virginia Department of Transportation has conducted surveys, focus groups and interviews to gauge local commuters' opinions on tolls.
Eleven percent of the participants of an online poll in November 2006 favored tolls on tunnels. They became slightly more favorable when told that the tolls would be electronic and the proceeds would improve the Midtown Tunnel.
Another goal of the polling is to plan a campaign to familiarize Hampton Roads motorists with E-ZPass.
The passes would also become necessary for an innovation likely to come to Hampton Roads with some of the new projects: HOT lanes. Under the concept, widely used in Northern Virginia, newly built lanes would be set aside to provide fast, uninterrupted travel. Cars with three or more people could used the lanes for free. Vehicles with fewer than three would have to pay a toll to get on, based on congestion in the lane at the time.
The Department of Transportation is studying the feasibility of building HOT lanes on Interstate 64 from Wards Corner across the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel and extending them to the end of Newport News. The study is expected to be completed in December.
Pierce said creation of the fast-moving lanes, combined with the high price of gas, might create demand for public transportation between the Peninsula and South Hampton Roads.
Del. Phillip Hamilton, R-Newport News, said the cost of adding two new lanes on the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel could be paid for by establishing a $2 toll for each crossing of the structure and an additional charge of $1 to use a HOT lane on it. His calculations are disputed, however.
Setting toll rates for most of the projects may be impossible as long as the General Assembly is fighting over taxes. The amount of public money available for a project has a direct bearing on its toll.
The third leg of the road-financing stool is finding a private company willing to build the project and invest money in it.
Pierce said road-builders won't risk a partnership with the state until they clearly understand the amount of public financing available for the projects and the potential payback from tolls.
Warren Fiske, (804) 697-1565, warren.fiske@pilotonline.com
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ok then
Steve w do you work for the tolling companies or own stock in them?
can you figgure out that they are going to do the roads anyway. can you figgure out that $140 is less than $1000. waste you bet there is. this is a prime example of wasted dollars. from your hand to theirs. only in this case instead of a 15% overecharge waste we, because of guys like you, IE hamilton howell stolle, some of us will be charged a wastage of 10 times more. either the projects cover their own cost with tax base increase or they don't need to be done. pick another route and your gas will eat your shorts. HRBT vise MMBT fat chance.
Some good points and some goofy points
Quote "the HOV lanes on 64 that are seperate instead of widening the roadway for a safer, more usable roadway". Could have been 2 additional lanes in each direction with 1 of ea a HOV designated lane. Stupidest HOV I've ever seen. You cannot even access or leave those at exits. Guarentees non use.
IMO:you ask why they didn't raise the gas tax years ago...they is us. Gas tax increase was defeated in referendum. You can't trust our politicians to use the tax on gas for trans,plain and simple. However, having a private firm; put up the funds FIRST, design, build,(taking VDOT out of mix)maintain, and toll a trans asset will get things done now. Do we cry when we pay our water bill? Is that a "tax" or user fee? You used what you paid for and you're not required to pay for your neighbors use or nonuse.
Traffic jams at toll booths?? Not in this day and age. Drive the 408 in FL, 400 in GA, any other number of example
What Duh..
Of course Northern Virginia has reaped all of Virginia taxpayers road tax money and they have.. no tolls. The State of West Virginia has two and three lane highways like I-68, I-64, and I-79 that climb hill and dale, huge mountain passes and bridges crossing rivers hundreds of feet wide and hundreds of feet over, no tolls, anywhere. Southside Tidewater is home to the Air Force, Navy, Marines, Army, OPM, FBI, NASA, Seal Teams, Secret Service, Customs, VLF facilities, PNSY and the Federal Government doesn't see plugged tunnels and bridges as a threat to their operations? Okay then, keep everything as is, and no tolls.
Taxes
Isn't that special! Every time a Democrat, who by the way is for the working man, gets in office, he wants to raise taxes, put in judges who legislate from the bench, won't allow us to build refineries, drill for oil, won't allow us to have new nuclear power plants, hates America, and support our enemies through various legislation and being pacifists. Good job voters! Thank you for voting to destroy this nation. Keep voting this way so we can be like Europe. Hate being an American, love high gas prices, and love corruption? Vote Democrat in the Fall!!
well
There were a large group of people that protested the tolls on 44 by paying everytime in pennies! It would fill and/or jam the toll machines up. I'll start that again! People also threw trash in there to jam the machines, lol.
To all those that want to PAY MORE! Put your money where your big mouths are! Send Richmond $200-$300 per month! It's put up or shut up!
I don't know where the money is going
I don't. I do know we built these roads on less taxes than we are paying now. The taxes have increased with each new taxpayer and each raise we have gotten. I don't believe that the cost of road construction has outstripped the cost of every other item, else we'd no longer be living indoors and eating processed foods. We've kept up and our taxes have risen, ergo they have plenty tax revenue. I do not want to give the morons anymore money to waste! My strongest belief is that the legislation needs to figure out where the problem is and fix it! I'd recommend they begin with husbanding their constituents resources. I'll not vote for anyone who is talking about raising money through taxes, in fact I'd vote them out. Use our money wisely! We all have to budget too!
angry and markk...
...OK, here is the answer regarding which programs to cut funding from:
If money was intended to go to roads, but subsequently diverted to other programs, those funds should be diverted back to roads.
Will some programs lose? Will some people be hurt? Absolutely. But it's up to our elected officials (you know, those people that we pay to represent us) to fund these programs without playing the shell game with the state's tax revenue.
jmo
Years Behind
They should have raised the fuel tax a few cents years ago to fund new roads. Now they have waited until the price of everything is high and will cost even more. But again no matter however much they raise taxes
and the so called fees it is never enough. We need to elect people who can count money and know how to eliminate wasteful spending.
toll = tax
"Del. Phillip Hamilton, R-Newport News, said the cost....could be paid for by establishing a $2 toll for each crossing..."
Yet another ploy from the tax-and-spend Republicans in Richmond!
shell game
i just love how the pro tollers missed, "pays for about 1/3 for the project". the other 2/3 goes? the 25 cents tunnel tolls were removed commerce increased on both sides. cutting the fat from all projects would be preferred. they are not looking for fat.. they are looking to toll. toll for somebody's friend. who going to profit? a $140 tax, raises 1 billion a year, which could sunset after projects paid for in 20 years, raising $20 billion. .80 toll will cost $320 a year. and somehow you no taxers think it's cheaper.all roads connect "i don't use it, i'm retired? ya just well then should we toll your driveway access. every time? let’s have a real vote.: $140 a year / 20 years or $320 to $3000 ($1000 will be average) a year for 90 years.
Tolls
Like every other knotty problem, no single solution is feasible. Several points. What percentage of state transportation funds are returned to districts compared to how much is paid in by district. What percentage of state's wealth is derived from two largest economic regions (Northern VA and Hampton Roads). What percentage of local traffic is involved in fueling the economy of VA? Question for our region's delegates and senators. Are we getting our fair share of transportation funds or as I am fairly certain are N Va and HR subsidizing rural and Republican VA roads? You want to have me pay tolls, fine. As long as we as a region are getting our fair share (measured by dollars in taxes and fees AND the economic benefit we generate for the rest of the state) then come to us and say we need to put tolls in place. Until our local delegation can show us the figures that we aren't getting less then what w
Tolls
Increase the gas tax 3 to 5 cents, roads are paid for by everyone who drives on our roadways tourist and Virginians alike. Have the money go to where it's suppose to go not special projects. This will elimate the cost of putting up toll booths, manning them and maintaining them. These roads are going to be built so stop wasting our money up in Richmond with more years of meetings and playing politics and get this done already, we as a tax payers are going to complain either way lets just make it fair.
What good is this
In the past couple of weeks there have been many comments or our transportation problem in this forum. We have commented on taxes, tolls, fees,etc. Does it really matter, the GA in Richmond will do what it weants without consideration what the people of the state think. Thats how the last failed plan came into being. Then they can say we tried but it didnt work. Fire them all. A gas tax is the fairest way those that use the most pay the most. The tax department is in place they will just have more money to deal with. With tolls there is construction of the toll booths and salary and benifits for those hired to work. There goes the money collected for soemthing other than roads
Tolls
Seems everyone has something to say about poor or rich George. I like his idea about paying for only the things you use. I don't use the schools, but I still have to pay. Usally when I use the Police I pay (a ticket). Have any of our smart lawmakers said what it will cost to pay for the toll trolls, maybe we could get John Warner to figure out how many barrels of oil will be wasted waiting to pay the tolls. Its bad enough to wake up not knowing if you have gas money to get to work now I have to worry about toll money to. Maybe we could get a rebate from the state for all the years lawmakers HAVEN'T fixed these problems. Maybe if they were fired and not replaced there would be money to solve the road problems and many more problems. Lets put a 50% tax on the fund raising money that is spent on getting someone elected to a $150 to $200 thousand a year job plus expenses. Now we see where the waste in Government is. Feel free t
It's to the point now..
..that I laugh when I see new car commercials. Almost all car commercials feature some cool guy with sunglasses zipping along an uncongested, wide open stretch of spacious interstate/ country road. When will the new car commercials reflect reality? Why not show that same guy PARKED on the interstate during rush hour while watching his dashboard television, texting/talking on his cell phone, reading, or eating to pass the time? If tolls are added to the already congested commute, cars will be little more than expensive camping tents with wheels. Raise taxes, man- I use these roads on a daily basis, and a lot of folks have trouble driving WITHOUT a toll booth. Just my $0.02...
State Owned Ports
The Ports are state owned therefore, infrastructure enhancements designed to increase Port efficiencies should be paid for by the State and not our "region". By the HRTA's own studies, the proposed improvements benefitted the ports however, general traffic congestion relief was marginal. The fact that Poquoson and a good portion of the Pennisula objected to regional govt. & taxes, and other cities had to be strong armed into agreeing, adds to the impression that something was wrong. The use of STATE funds and tolls on NEW roads makes sense.
If there are actual projects designed for traffic congestion relief, tolls on NEW roads make sense. The local economies are struggling, ideas for other funding measures must take that into account.
A lot of talking but no solutions
What I'm seeing here is a lot of talking and complaining much like they have done for years in Richmond, but no solid solutions. This is exactly the kind of thing that got us into this mess in the first place. 'Programs should be cut to pay for things': Which ones? What group of Virginians are you willing to hurt with those cuts? 'I don't use the highways so tolls won't affect me": if you live here, the products you purchase are brought into the area by the highways so yes, they will affect you. Any sort of added tax is going to hurt SOMEONE, it's just a question of who gets hurt. Our representatives in Richmond don't want to hurt anyone so THEY can't decide what to do. While all this yakking is going on, our transportation system continues to get worse, hurting us all.
Solutions: put as much freight onto trains and barges as possible to take the burden off the roads. Put in a rail system between the southsi
Hmm
Should we design and release free plans for an EZ-Pass jammer?
Sorry Rustidad
I really think you have misconstrued GeorgeS' comment. I took his comment to mean that while he doesn't drive much, he would have no problem paying the toll if and when he were on that road.
I could me misinterpretting his position because the above is my position, and if I am wrong I tender my apologies.
As someone who doesn't drive in the HR region I don't see why I should have to pay more in gas taxes to solve the problems caused by elected officials I did not vote for.
Here to help
If you are not sure of the effects of the toll booths, I am here to help you. Simply drive around the city of Richmond and check them out .The roads serving areas around Richmond often place you in a situtaion to encouter several of them to make a short trip. I will not pass jusdgement. You should do it for yourself. Drive around on the toll roads during a peak period. Then make your choice.
Here's your chance
Since so many of you believe that there should be cuts in other areas to pay for roads, here is VA's Budget. All of you financial geniuses now have the opportunity to review it and make your own proposals to the legislature on what to cut to get the road money.
http://dpb.virginia.gov/budget/vabud/vabud.cfm?vBiennium=2008-2010&vTable=O
Georges Comment
"I'm retired I don't travel around very much, but then I don't have a problem payig a toll for it".
This would be a typical liberal response. He won't use it and pay tolls, so let everyone else worry and pay for him. He's got the "put the toll booths up, but not in my backyard" talking points memorized from Ted Kennedy's "put the wind turbines up, but not on my sailing waters" play!
question
Will the engineer that designed the roads around here please stand up. What brain child designed a tunnel that comes out to a drawbridge ? Or the HOV lanes on 64 that are seperate instead of widening the roadway for a safer, more usable roadway. I don't mind paying a user fee if it is not being wasted on stupidity. Make 64 - 664 a beltway and put a toll on it. Leave local access alone.
I can't believe I'm saying this
But I'm actually inclined to partially agree with Georges about the tolls. Folks in HR and NoVA rejected regional increased taxes to help with the road/traffic/transportation issues in those area. for that reason, and that reason alone I do not support a statewide gas tax increase.
Why not post a 25cent toll
Why not post a 25cent toll on all roads exiting all neighborhoods!
I have a question for all you public transportation proponents who don’t want any cars on the road.
Since currently public transportation is funded with gas taxes, will you be willing to increase the fairs to actually cover the costs?
almost funny if it weren't consistent with what you believe
"Sorry to dissapoint you, but I don't own a lazy boy. They are in such bad taste, and people who own them should be taxed."-George. Just like with the roads you want someone to pay more for something that's already been paid for. ha-ha! Hopefully the people avoiding the toll roads will suddenly be driving down the street you live on! Of course since the Lazy-Boy brand is in bad taste you probably live in a gated community where only rich people can afford to live in it. You use grocery carts, put a toll on them. You use traffic lights, put a toll on them. You use the stop signs in your neighborhood, toll them. Why do you liberals want more and more money from the citizens? What percentage is the maximum a person should pay out of their income. We have to pay income taxes, homeowners insurance, property taxes, personal property (car) taxes, sales taxes, hotel taxes, luxury (rich people like George) tax
TOLLS
let's put a toll on bennetts pasture road to pay for a new bridge on kings hiway to chuckatuck that the state condemmed and didn't repair or replace. where did the lottery money go? to schools ? let's get real !
rustidad
Sorry to dissapoint you, but I don't own a lazy boy. They are in such bad taste, and people who own them should be taxed.
Tolls and the Price of Gas
First: The tolls should never have been taken away from the midtown and downtown tunnels and Route 44 (now know as 264 East to the beach). Reasonable tolls should be utilized! It is fair because the ones paying are the ones using the resources.
Second: With the price of gas going crazy and people no longer being able to pay for it, the congestion on the roads WILL start to slow. But, that will take some time.
We have had it really good for many years. We haven't been doing very well with our money and we are going to really feel the crunch!
Some of the social programs and give aways have got to stop!
Forget tolls-go with gas tax
The process is already in place collecting gas tax-why build toll booths, hire people to collect etc.
Have some guts state legislators!