Fatal shooting leads to new vests for Chesapeake police

"Detective Shivers was murdered by Ryan Frederick."

As you put this in writing Mr. Frederick could in fact reach through your anonymos posting and sue you. Funny how the expert on people's innocence or guilt actually violates someone's right here on the boards.

The doc and I often disagree, mostly on science, but he has a point here. Come kick in my door while I am asleep and see how far you you get.

As I understand it, it hasn't been proven he was a dealer, but was growing it for personal use. So they had a warrant. OK. And because of how that warrant was executed, a cop is dead over a guy with some plants in his house. That fact that CPD did have a warrant isn't the problem. The problem is that an officer was killed during it's execution. That is where we are in disagreement and the Chief of Police should resign because of it, or be relieved of his duties. HE IS TO BLAME. You can't deal with the fact they (CPD) screwed up and are trying to hide the fact that they did. They have something to hide. It was CPD policy that got the officer killed. As for Det. Phillips, again a needless death over a bag of pot. Two families are spouse-less and fatherless. What a shame. It isn't worth it.

They had a warrant. That means they convinced a judge that they had probable cause to search.

This may be difficult to grasp, but the people most likely to know the location of drug dealers are other drug dealers. Your average soccer mom or dentist don't associate with these felons, so the police have to deal with bad guys to get other bad guys.

Mr. Watkins states "Second, it is really bad police procedure to make an appointment with a drug dealer to search his house. That is why the cops show up when the bad guys don't expect them." Well Mr. Watkins, would hit have been too much to ask that CPD do some intelligence work on it's own rather than take the word of another drug addict? This attitude reeks of the same scenario that happened when state and IRS agents took the word of a disgruntled employee that was fired because she was caught stealing money from The Jewish Mother. CPD is hiding something. It hasn't been proven that Ryan Fredrick "knew" the police were at his front door. Had CPD used some common sense and staked out his property and his work habits, his property could have been searched without his knowledge. Then Officer Shivers would probably still be alive. It's time to change "proper procedure". Perhaps the state legislatu

First, Ryan Frederick is a criminal who shot a cop, period. But let's take Dr. Tabor's own history as a lesson: when the police broke in his mobile home, he had the presence of mind to determine what his target was and make the "shoot/don't shoot" decision. Tabor showed good judgment. At best, Frederick shot blindly, at worst he intentionally shot a cop.

Second, it is really bad police procedure to make an appointment with a drug dealer to search his house. That is why the cops show up when the bad guys don't expect them.

Finally, let's be honest. Dr. Tabor's own political party advocates legalizing drugs. Don't take my word for it, go to www.lp.org and read all about it. Fortunately, this fringe organization has had very little success in changing the laws of this country or having its candidates elected.

There is always Amsterdam if you really want legal dope...prostitution and drugs are OK,

Paraphrasing Watkins and Bhound: 'This was the right way to do it because this is the way we always do it.' The way you always do it gets policemen and citizens killed every year, so maybe its not the best way.

Safer alternatives have been suggested by many, in various forums, including by law enforcement personnel. No explanation has been offered for why the safer methods were not used. All we get is, 'You are a policeman, you wouldn't understand.'

So how about some real answers instead of name calling? Can either of you honestly say it is likely Ryan Frederick would have ever shot anyone had the CPD not chosen to raid his home while he was asleep? How about law enforcement accepting the responsibility for its choices. Or at least giving the public honest answers about the choices made.

Doc Tabor wants to play politics and uses this forum to spread his liberal views. Now he incorrectly vilifies the chain of command. His gripe is systemic and cannot be put on individuals. Drug warrants are served in the manner used by the CPD everywhere because they are all considered high risk. Drugs and guns and violence go hand and hand. Detective Shivers and the CPD, including the chain of command, did everything legally and by policy. Ryan Frederick is the only one to blame here, so Doc, try and place accountability where it belongs - Ryan Frederick fired his weapon in a reckless manner causing the loss of life. He is a murderer!

Oh please...you are angry at those who were above them in the chain of command? Typical libertarian pro-anarchy hype.

The two detectives who were murdered were doing their job. There is no evidence that either of them questioned their assignments or had any hesitation about completing them. Indeed, in tonight's article it says that Detective Phillips set up the operation himself. They were brave enough to deal with armed criminals, which is pretty much a job requirement for cops.

The fact remains that the law is the law, and we hire these people to enforce it. If you disagree with the drug laws, get Richmond to change them...it is not a local option.

These two men paid the ultimate price and rather than honoring their sacrifice, many of you choose to play politics.

Truly shameful.

Whatever gives you that idea? Because I don't want them doing things that are needlessly dangerous?

Do you seriously think a broken door means more to me than the fact that, long ago, I nearly killed a good man because, with all the best intentions, he did something stupid?

If you have read even a fraction of what I have written on this topic over the last 7 months, it should be clear that I regard the death of Det.Shivers as the real tragedy and that my anger is directed at those who sent him into a mortally dangerous situation for no good reason, and who now will not take responsibility for their decisions and seek to shift the blame to some poor guy who, absent the no-win situation he was placed in by those choices, would never have harmed anyone. Are there some cops I don't like, I guess so, but not the ones at the tip of the spear.

So. Mr. Watkins, it doesn't bother you if police enter your house with no probable cause or search warrant to go on an Easter Egg hunt? It seems to me sir that you think it is OK that law enforcement has an anything goes policy. They won't be held accountable for their actions, but you or I will certainly be held for ours. If CPD had used some common sense and executed their search warrant after the man left for work, rather than bust in like Rambo, then... in all probability, Officer Shivers would still be alive. Now Det. Phillips has lost his life. Two families are without fathers and spouses over a bag of marijuana. It's just too high of a price to pay. Fact is that Doc Tabor is correct in his assessment and you can't deal with the truth.

So

He is still ticked off about his broken mobile home door so he doesn't like cops.

Stick to dentistry. You have proven that are not electable, so a political future is out. Your comments about law enforcement people are insulting to people who work to protect all of us, even you.

I have a serious concern about law-enforcement officers breaking down doors for any reasons other than the probable protection of life.

Except in extreme and dire situations, we have to get away from this "SWAT" mentality, before more innocent people are killed, whether civilians or police.

I'm glad the Chesapeake police are getting better equipment; they deserve the best, given the risks that they take in keeping the peace.

I hope that the procedures for intelligence gathering, and the rules of engagement, are also updated, to help avoid the potential for another heart-breaking disaster.

Ditto again Doc. Three times a charm.

While I have not worn a badge, I have worn Ryan Frederick's shoes. Some 36 years ago, I came within seconds of killing an errant police officer. You can read about it at http://tinyurl.com/5q7tfz

I'm sure he was also a dedicated officer who thought he was stepping outside the bounds of the law and prudence for a higher purpose, but had I been a bit more afraid and less confident of my own abilities, I might have ended his life and ruined my own because of his mistake.

This is the United States of America. We do not have secret police answerable only to themselves. Our police are answerable to civilian authority and to the people themselves.

For seven months, I and others have asked for a reasonable explanation for the choice to serve the warrant on Frederick in such a dangerous manner when there were safer alternatives available. All we have gotten is the same response you gave, 'Its a police thing, you wouldn't understand.'

I do not have to be a policeman to understand our Constitution and the rule of law. I do not need to have worn a badge to see that there were more peaceful ways to serve that warrant, and that judgment has been confirmed by policemen from other jurisdictions.

So, if there is a good reason for that choice, please elaborate.

I will ditto Doc Tabor....TWICE!

Hey Doc my guess is you're a dentist and probably a good one however you need to leave lawenforcement to those who know how to do the job and stop making statements on things you know very little about. Now if you were a former cop I apologize but my feelings are you've never worn a badge.

The good doc is a bit off. The review found the police followed the law and policy. Detective Shivers was murdered by Ryan Frederick. Now Ryan Frederick gets his trial. Let's wait and see how the jury sees it. And Doc, if you break the law and get caught, tough!

We do have a new Chief of Police in Chesapeake. What city where your comments in reference to Tabor?

I think Dr. Tabor's comments are in extremely poor taste given that the detective gave his life doing his job. It wasn't up to him to decide what laws to enforce...he was the point of the spear in the war on crime.

I personally want the police to be well-armed and well-equipped so they can take out the bad guys before they take out the good guys.

Fortunately, extremists like Tabor have repeatedly been repulsed at the polls and hopefully citizens will continue to have the good sense to keep them out of office.

the good Doctor is kicking off another political campaign!

....DITTO!!!

Still going to use burglars to conduct illegal searches prior to obtaining a warrant.

Still going to place citizens lives in danger on nothing more than the unconfirmed word of a known criminal.

Still going to knock down doors without giving citizens any opportunity to accept a warrant peaceably.

Still going to create mortally dangerous confrontations when there are much safer options easily available.

But they're going to do it with better armor to be sure it is the citizen who winds up dead if something goes wrong.

If City Council does not replace the Police leadership, we should replace City Council.