VIRGINIA BEACH
When Michael Phillips was gunned down in an undercover operation last week, he became the second local detective to be killed investigating suspected marijuana dealers in the past seven months.
The deaths have sparked debate about the enforcement of marijuana and other drug laws, with some activists arguing that continuing the war on drugs is just bad policy.
Others, including many local officials, say the killings confirm the dangers surrounding the drug trade.
“From the perspective of Mike Phillips’ widow, I’d say we’re worse off fighting the battle,” said state Sen. Kenneth Stolle, a former Virginia Beach police sergeant and undercover
officer. “From Mike Phillips’ perspective the day he was killed, I’m sure he felt it was a battle that needed to be fought, that the benefits outweighed the risk.”
“Drugs,” Stolle said, “are about the most evil thing in the community that I know of right now.”
A federal law enforcement official who works in Hampton Roads said that crack cocaine is the most frequently seized drug in this area.
Marijuana is the most used illegal drug in the nation and in the state, federal data show, but local authorities say they have not unduly focused on it.
Chesapeake Police Chief Kelvin Wright said marijuana and other drugs contribute to problems in society, particularly dangerous activities.
“It’s what I call the unholy trinity: guns, violence and drugs,” the chief said. “They all seem to go hand-in-hand.”
Portsmouth Commonwealth’s Attorney Earle Mobley said most drug dealers don’t just sell one substance. Instead, investigators often find a marijuana dealer to be involved with cocaine, heroin or Ecstasy, he said.
“Because there’s an element of violence that is connected with the distribution of drugs,” he said, “it just requires an aggressive prosecution of all of the offenses. …
From where I sit and where I see things happening, not to fight that fight would send the wrong message.”
But there are those across the country who think it’s a battle not worth fighting.
Peter Christ, a retired New York police captain and co-founder of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, said hearing of the deaths of Phillips in Virginia Beach and police Detective Jarrod Shivers in Chesapeake in January “breaks my heart.”
“These are my brothers and sisters in law enforcement,” he said. “I know what they’re going through. We’ve sent them off into this dangerous world, and we’ve made it more dangerous rather than making it safer.”
Phillips was shot three times in the torso as he attempted to buy a half-pound of pot in a parking lot in Green Run on Aug. 7. Two suspects, Ted Vincent Carter, 23, and Marshall Demetrius Moyd, 26, have been charged with first-degree murder in the killing.
Shivers was gunned down on Jan. 17 while serving a warrant to search a home suspected of containing marijuana. Ryan David Frederick, then 28, faces capital murder charges.
“What’s at the root of these deaths isn’t shoddy police work,” Christ said. “The root of these deaths is bad policy.”
Christ, who helped co-found the national group six years ago, noted that officers are sworn to uphold the laws and should continue to do that. But, he said, he and the more than 1,000 current and retired law enforcement officials in his group support a policy that would regulate, legalize and tax all illicit drugs.
Their view goes beyond that of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws.
“I look at this as a prima facie discussion about why laws should change,” Allen St. Pierre, NORML’s executive director, said of the local officers’ deaths. “And I’m going to presume those that enforce the law will point to this as why they need to redouble their efforts.”
Pilot writers Kristin Davis, Janie Bryant, Duane Bourne, Jaedda Armstrong and Tim McGlone contributed to this report.
Shawn Day, (757) 222-5131, shawn.day@pilotonline.com
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insults
when did this become a forum for personally belittling one another.there are a lot of good and valid points being made here.with the way law enforcement deals with drug problems i think there should be a risk factor equation put into the workings a safety factor.i will add this and i must say first i don't do any sort of illegal drug and haven't since i was a teen,but i think if it were a choice between one of my children driving home from any sort of bender i would rather them be high on marijuana than drunk from alcohol.which goes back to prohibition days,and it is the same argument a percentage of people are going to do illegal things regardless.which one kills more?i am very sorry for this slain officer,i did not know this man but he gave his life for what he believed in.may god bless and be with each and every one of our servants,be they military law enforcement or fire department.
Herodotus and George . . .
Okay, I apologize to George, understanding that I was not clear in my statement that he could not convince me of his views because he was trying to do it with words that seemed provocative and like a personal attack. If you (Herodotus) took my statement to be a personal condemnation of him, it is possible that he or others did that. Thanks for pointing that out, as I do not have a goal in life of trying to shame or personally insult anyone. If George is made in the image of God and God loves him, then it is not my job to treat him in any way other than a loving way.
Views are fair game--we are obviously allowed to disagree with them. But my goal is, and always has been to do that politely. I failed and ask your forgiveness (George). Cheers, MGM
I never called YOU ignorant.
I was referring to a certain statement. You should follow your own advice:
"We don't know you and we certainly can't judge you. But judging the quality of your writing and logic is fair game! In fact, it is what you sign up for when you send something to the Pilot (I have had the same experience--just develop a thick skin, okay?). Cheers, MGM"
you know what...
im willing to bet if we were all stoned right now, there wouldn't be any name calling...just a lot of hugging....hahaha....i kid, i kid...
Mary
You are rationalizing your behavior. I'm sure George is rationalizing his.
It's no wonder you people behave the way you do. It's always the other person's fault.
Herodotus . . .
Check out my previous sentence. I referred to his rudeness and insults, then said his words/behavior would not convince me to change my mind on the issue at hand. There is a huge difference between telling someone his rudeness and insults are a total turnoff and attacking the person himself. Presumably he can make a choice to be rude and insult someone or to be civil. That is not a personal trait. Attacking someone for a personal trait which he could not change would, indeed, be unconscionable. Cheers, MGM
You help create this environment
The regular posters to this website attack each other all day, as if insults make their opinions stronger instead of irrelevant.
Tell me Mary, how does writing "In fact, if you are an example of an average person who uses marijuana, you have just proved my case for staying far away from it," make you any better than George? How do you take the moral high ground with that?
I am not defending George, who frequently sinks into the verbal cesspool so many posters here enjoy, but what I really want to know is where are the editors for all of you?
George
So far, friend, you have called me ignorant and lacking in reason approximately three times in the last three days.
Notice I don't do that back to you? Wonder what that is called? Could it be manners, as well as following the posting guidelines?
Now, if you could convince me of the virtue of mind-altering substances, which you cannot, you would not be successfully doing that by rudeness and insults. In fact, if you are an example of an average person who uses marijuana, you have just proved my case for staying far away from it, by your attitude towards others on this website. I don't like people who think they are better than others, no matter what their politics are. Cheers, MGM
Comparing cannaibis smoking to tobacco smoking is ignorant.
Tobacco is more addicting than heroine. No wonder people line up outside Walmart to fix their Jones. You assume that tobacco and cannabis create the same behaviors. You have confused rationalization with reason.
Absurd reasoning, michaelc
The defining characteristic of any civilized society is the protection of its members. Murder, robbery, etc, are all crimes against people, with a well-defined victim and aggressor.
The prohibition against murder and theft are also accompanied by clear moral imperatives - "thou shall not," etc.
Your suggestion that the cultivation of a plant, or smoking it in private for one's own recreation, is in any way comparable to murder or robbery is simply ridiculous.
And do you really want to bring up automobile accidents? Have you seen any statistics regarding alcohol-related automobile accidents? Do you really believe you will have any moral high ground going that route?
No personal boundaries!
Here's another thought. We all know that banning cigarettes from buildings like Walmart means you now merely have to "walk the gantlet" of the smokers and their smoke at the door of the store. Most people of our generation have very few personal boundaries when it relates to how their behavior inconveniences the person right next to them in a crowd. What about the fact that the smokers at the door of Walmart will now be tokers at the door of Walmart? I am pretty sure the Navy will never legalize drugs and I will still take periodic drug tests for THC. How many places will I have to avoid in order to not breathe tons of second-hand marijuana smoke? If people kept this to their homes, it would be one thing, but our boundary-less population will be pushing their smoke at other people before long (outside of buildings, of course, so they can act shocked and offended if you mention it). Cheers, MGM
How silly people are
How silly people are to think that by illegalizing pot America will be much better.
In 2008 Cause of officer's death
3 aircraft accidents
60 vehicle accidents
1 boating accident
3 fall
13 job related illness
9 mototcycle accidents
68 shot
14 struck by vehicle
21 drug related arrest
5 terrorist attack
So pot is legal and you can buy it at Farm Fresh or Fresh pride or Food lion or Walgreen, the government tax it and now making money the stuff. Someone tell us why would the drug dealer who ships the pot over by the tons and making millions if it get sold in the U.S. would stop selling it and lose those millions? People smoke it for the THC so who would give the smoker the higher THC the government or the drug dealer? smoking government pot would be like smoking a joint with a filter. Who would make sure you get the amount you want the government or the dealer? Who would sale it for a cheaper price? the dealer or th
99 bottles of beer on the wall
Get drunk in VB, get a dui, puke your guts out and miss work or worse. And to top it off, it is state sponsered! How absurd.
Time to legalize it
People have been smoking marijuana since the days of Prohibition. The so-called 'war' to stamp out its use has been a dismal failure. It is time to try something new: legalize it, tax the hell out of it and treat being under the influence of it just like we do being under the influence of alcohol. Give that a try for ten years and see what happens. That way, people who need it for medicinal purposes can get it without breaking the law too. As for it being a 'gateway drug,' for some people, alcohol is a gateway drug. It all depends on the individual. With so many years without success you would thing SOMEONE would think to try something different. It's time to see what happens if we do legalize it.
Why don't we just stop enforcing all laws?
More police officers are killed simply making traffic stops than in drug busts. Maybe we should stop enforcing those laws too. Some police officers are killed preventing robberies. Maybe we should make bank robbery legal. It all makes perfect sense. And the potheads out there don't want to tell us how many people are killed in traffic accidents where the driver was high on marijuana. Come on, people, think about how idiotic you sound!
shout out to Average
shout out to Average Joe...keep it positive, my friend...
I hear ya Avg Joe!
Sounds like you are an all-right guy. Walk proud my brother!
profit and behavior
Briefly, the problem isn't people running around high, the problem is the behavior engendered by a commodity with so much profit potential (~17,000%). The war on drugs should be motivated towards behavior, the drug itself is a red herring in this sense. This government sponsored policy has its intentions in the right place, but this has devolved into a war on the lower class ("The Wire" anyone?- wake up!). Anyone who watches an easy bust of a user who should be in rehab and yet the big boys walk knows this. Just my opinion.
Justify it any way you want....
Average Joe...I'm sure you are a good-hearted nice guy, but you can blow your own horn and pat yourself on the back all you want. Bottom line: you are breaking tha law and are therefore a criminal no matter who your accomplices are or have been. You can not choose which laws you will obey or disobey based upon whether you agree with the law. Those who do as such are the ones who make society uncivilized.
Racist Drug Laws?
Which one's? The federal methamphetamine laws (that call for the same punishment as crack possession by the way) that have resulted in incarceration rates of 54% for whites, 39% for hispanics and 2% for blacks? Is that the one targeting white people and hispanics? Or are you referring to the federal "crack" cocaine laws that were ASKED for by numerous leaders in the black community during crack's early and violent beginnings in the mid-80's? The one that EVERY African American in Congress voted for? That one? My how people forget and times change. First the law was necessary to rid the community of the scourge that is crack and its dealers and to dissuade use. Now, oh my gosh, more black people are getting arrested! What a racist law! The white man is trying to keep us down! Give me a break! I suggest visiting here for a different viewpoint:
http://www.city-journal.org/printable.php?id=2
spend the money on gangs
Spend the drug money on cleaning up our gang problem and you will clean up a large portion of the drug problem. Then make it legal, tax it and everyone will come out on top.
Bottom Line...
is that weed makes people think, concentrate and meditate....if this is looked at as a health-risk or as something thats a negative, then i dont know what else to say...
...and as far as being a hippie, im anything but...i work a 40 hour work week at a wonderful GOVERNMENT contractor, im in college taking various computer courses, enjoy a healthy diet, don't do any other drugs (including prescription & non-prescription), occasionally drink alcohol responsibly(although i plan on stopping altogether soon), im non-violent, well-educated, and i have very strong morals...i love to play sports, i help out in the community and i came from a good single-parent household...but aside from all of that, i guess im a criminal because i like to enjoy a blunt or a bong hit from time to time in the privacy of my home...
Demand Legalization
The DEA lies to us, legalizing marijuana will NOT "send the wrong message" to anyone, and marijuana is NOT a gateway drug to anything. These are vague arguments created by the ONDCP and DEA in a bid to end the legalization argument.
Legalizing the production and supply of marijuana by approved businesses will instantly force illegal marijuana suppliers out of the market because they won't be able to match the price of the legal product, this will mean all marijuana purchases will occur in legal and approved establishments.
That in itself will allow us for the first time to card marijuana customers thus *preventing* the sale of marijuana to minors. Where is the "wrong message" in that?
We demand our legislators listen. We demand legalization of the marijuana market!
Issues I look at . . .
With my simplistic mind. An earlier article brought up discussion of civil disobedience. Even the disciples did that in the New Testament ("we must obey God rather than man") and Martin Luther King was brilliant at it in Birmingham, but . . . those were fights where, if they were lost, mankind would stall out, lacking something huge (equal rights for blacks, for example).
With people advocating civil disobedience for recreational drug use (or for booze during Prohibition), the common sense part of me says, "But we don't *need* those things to live happy lives and there is no moral imperative to fight this fight." In fact, I personally will not allow mind-altering substances into my body. I can't make that choice for anyone else, but I can say I won't join them in their civil disobedience, nor advocate for it. And I would rather have my teen talk to someone like Phrog who has been through this an
The Oligarchy needs it's racist drug laws
because they are so successfull at keeping the wrong people if not off the street, at least off the voter rolls.
It's a banned substance now.
Two choices -
A. Get it legalized and then deal with the taxing / underground sales issues etc.
B. Use it and pay the consequences if caught just as you do for other violations of the law. (unless you have a good lawyer who can get you off scott-free)
He posted another link he did not comprehend.
Hey, what am I'm doing back here?
I'm addicted to forums, please make them illegal save me from myself!
A question . . .
With these 130 or so comments during the workday on a Friday, does everybody here work nights? That could affect the skew of a sample right there. Although this one seemed pretty evenly mixed between pro and con . . .
I was going to say, tongue-in-cheek, that there must be something to this theory about marijuana users losing their motivation to work except that doesn't account for the rest of us being here all day. Myself, I am between gigs, getting well from cancer before I retire from the Navy and start my second career. Anyone else? Cheers, MGM
Yeah, right . . .
It's not sinister--Mary's family is British. Cheers (yes, again), MGM
Adam
Yes I know it was a 1999 study. I also know that even though the author and I disagree about legalization, he did list the health risks, which is the point I make about why it shouldn't be legalized, although he does. So, just for you here is another one, and again I do not disagree with medicinal use, but legalized recreational use due to health risks.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/148088/the_health_risks_and_benefits_of_using.html?cat=5