VIRGINIA BEACH
New roads by Interstate 264, bike paths, public transit stops along the Norfolk Southern right of way and Virginia Beach's version of the Big Dig are included in an ambitious plan to improve traffic in the city's Pembroke area.
The estimated cost of all these proposals in the Pembroke Area Comprehensive Transportation Plan is $649.5 million and completing them could take more than 30 years.
The plan is an attempt to design a road network that will match the city's vision of turning the Pembroke area and Town Center into Virginia Beach's downtown, said Bill Nash, an engineer with Kimley-Horn and Associates. The company and city workers have been developing this proposal for the past several years. The city budgeted $925,000 for the study.
"If you really think about what this community is going to be like in 50 years... this offers some really great ideas," City Manager Jim Spore said.
Among those ideas:
- Purchase the Norfolk Southern right of way and build a public transit system that ties into Norfolk's light rail. The right of way would initially accommodate buses and later rail.
- Construct new four-lane roads east and west of Independence Boulevard for drivers who want to cross Interstate 264 but don't want to get on the highway. This would ease traffic near the highway ramps.
- Reduce Virginia Beach Boulevard from eight lanes to four lanes and add bike paths.
- Run Independence Boulevard under Virginia Beach Boulevard from Columbus Street to Broad Street. This would be a smaller-scale version of what Massachusetts officials did by routing a major highway through a tunnel under Boston for a project nicknamed the Big Dig.
Beach officials have completed or are designing some of the lower-priced projects in the plan, like the $3 million pedestrian bridge across Virginia Beach Boulevard connecting Town Center to Pembroke Mall.
T he larger projects will depend on whether the city has the money. The plan recommends that city officials look for state and federal money, along with partnership opportunities with private companies. City officials also should consider special tax districts and a community development authority, which can independently sell bonds, collect revenue and spend money, the plan suggests.
"It's a great conceptual plan, but it needs a lot of work," said Councilman Jim Wood.
The city won't have the $297.5 million to push a portion of Independence Boulevard underground anytime soon, Wood said.
Councilman Harry Diezel said it will also be difficult to acquire all the private property needed for these changes.
Some of the proposed roads run through existing sites such as Princess Anne High School and Pembroke Mall.
Nash said the goal is to make the public aware of the city's plan and officials hope people consider the new road network when redeveloping their properties.
The city needs to make these road changes, or residents will have to get used to more congested roads and longer travel times, Nash said.
This transportation plan will be incorporated into the city's long-range planning for the Pembroke area, which is scheduled to begin this fall.
The City Council will eventually have to vote on the whole development plan, including the transportation portion.
Deirdre Fernandes, (757) 222-5121, deirdre.fernandes@pilotonline.com
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Ira & Italian Job
Ira. In answer to your question..YES. In the first place Ira, driving a car on a public highway is a privilege. The same is true of a bicycle. The driver of the automobile has paid for his/her privilege by buying license, paying personal property taxes, and insurance for that privilege. You and Italian Job are basically wanting VB (me indirectly) to pay for and provide you bicyclists paths and or bike lanes at a significant additional cost of a regular lane, just so you can ride down Virginia Beach Blvd along with 45MPH traffic. I find it hard to understand why you would want to take a chance of getting turned into a pancake riding a bike on the blvd. when somebody may not be able to see you. As for hostility at bicyclists, I am hostile when I can't get around them and when they don't abide by the rules of the road, such as not stopping at stop signs and red lights. You want bike paths.....contribute to their costs and maintenance.
I'm all for getting rid of
I'm all for getting rid of Pembroke Mall. My fiance, who is from Houston, did not believe me that it was the worst mall on earth, so I took him there for an afternoon and now he understands.
It makes me giggle when people complain about Boulevard traffic. I drive through the HRBT twice a day.
It's called the long con
I lived in VB when this project was planned and begun. Being familiar w/ the intersection it was suprising the city said it would not cause a problem. Many people cited the continuing and contributory costs as being an issue. VB acted as though there was no problem w/ the infrastructure surrounding the site while the outcome was obvious. When your sitting in traffic BEFORE it was built there was a problem. Don't think they put the cart before the horse on accident. They created the problem knowing they would cite current conditions to justify the continued expenditures. The travesty is that the delay between reports seems to work. The public is not responding very strongly.
DUH
Of course this was never planned for. The whole reason Virgina Beach exists as a city today was to keep it suburban and avoid these problems. If the founders of the City of Va. Beach (only approx 40 years ago) wanted an urban city with a downtown, they would have merged with Norfolk and been one community. The whole point was to avoid this type of growth and urbanization in (what was then) Princess Anne County.
Keith H - A little Education for you.
Cyclists are not just people out on the roads for exercise. Cyclists are families wishing to enjoy a safe ride. Cyclists are people going to work and cyclists may just be someone running an errand. Please note the article says Bike PATHS, not lanes. Paths run beside the road, not on the road.
As for this comment: "Why can't bicyclists ride in their neighborhoods where traffic is limited to 25 MPH vice 45?" I can tell you that when cyclists do ride in the neighborhoods, they are confronted for being there are well. So where exactly are people supposed to ride their bikes? Remember, it is not just recreational cyclists out there.
Maybe you should think about you tax idea again, the next time you see someone riding their bike to work, because they have no other means of transportation.
Putting the cart before the horse
The infrastructure should have gone in first before all the development. The road system should have been improved earlier. Traffic in that area is a nightmare at rush hour. And someone is going to say it wasn't predictable??? Now, it is going to cost even more to fix a situation which, with better planning, wouldn't need to be fixed at all. Another 'great' piece of work by the VB city council . . .
keith
Let's recap your suggestion. Even though people pay all of the same taxes, our movement should be restricted on the continent to where you want us placed for the sake of cars easier movement? It is ok to ride in the riders own neighborhood but not anywhere else? I find that absurd and drastic. You are proposing limiting a citizens movement. Then when a bike path is proposed to seperate the two types of traffic you balk at the fact the bikers don't have a sticker on their bikes. I pay an enormous amount of taxes in Va. I just think the ire directed at cyclist is nothing more than misdirected hostility. Has life become so dark for some people that cyclist are really a problem worth dealing with? Chill out.
Ira
Well sometimes the truth hurts Ira. Of course they pay taxes on their homes. And they pay taxes on their cars, boats, and motorcycles. That is the cost of paying for the roads. They DON'T pay personal property taxes, insurance, and license on their bicycles; there is no bicycle operators permit required; most of them ride in groups of 2 & 3 so no one can pass; and a lot of them are (and some drivers) are oblivious to their surroundings. Why can't bicyclists ride in their neighborhoods where traffic is limited to 25 MPH vice 45? As far as DMV, most transactions are done by mail anyway since it costs $5 just to show your face in there. If you want bike lanes, pony up along like the rest of us to pay for them with taxes and fees. I don't see what is so baffling about it.
Nonsense
"Until bicyclists start paying license fees, personal property taxes, and insurance on their bicycles, then they don't deserve bike lanes. "
They do on their homes from which much of this money is derived. Nevermind that your car tax is subsidized by the state to the lcoalities. Also nevermind that they reduce services on DMV and the infrastructure for bikes is a pittance compared to the cost of paving everything for cars. It would seem to a reasonable person that all of the millions are actually needed to accomodate the cars, not the bikes. Then you complain about this when they want to reduce VB Blvd. which is to make the area more pedestrian friendly? Baffled.
Really?
Honestly I am in that area once or twice a week; I don't see what the problem is. It surely doesn’t warrant a half a billion dollar overhaul. Traffic there isn't really that bad.
VB Plan - Keithh
For God Sakes, when are residents in this area going to realize that cyclists are MOTORISTS too. We pay our taxes, insurance, licensing fees, etc. Why must you continue to discrimante against people riding on two wheels instead of driving on four?
Look at the plan in its entirty before condeming it. As is, Town Center is unfriendly to anyone going there. It is too dangerous to cycle in and out of there. Walking is a scary proposition. Driving is not much better due to traffic and the parking garages are some of the most narrow/demolition derby parking garages I have ever seen. The whole area is a cluster. They might as well take a look at making it better.
Think it over
VA Beach Blvd is currently not overly conjested but will it stay that way? I'm not sure about the bike path thing given that I don't see too many folks in this area riding their bikes. I fully support tying into the light rail system of Norfolk. To be able to go out on the town and NOT have to drive would be a marvelous addition to this city that most other big cities already has. Putting Independent BLVD partially underground seems stupid. In an area prone to heavy rain and flooding...having any major street underground seems like a bad idea. If your really want to sink a road below sea level give us another tunnel.
correcting their problems
They are just trying to correct their problems they are mocked for in elementary urban planning books which specifically mention how great Virginia Beach's "City Center" is with pedestrians trying to cross 6 lanes of traffic but... lots of open space that consists of unlimited parking available which is only fully occuppied during the holidays.
I'd rather see my tax dollars go into some investigations on how the city got as screwed up as it did and who is ultimately responsible for it....that would be a great series for the news paper.......
Waste of taxpayer money
$1 million to state the obvious! What VB council won't do to waste taxpayer money. Here's an idea...free of charge. STOP! Continued overdevelopment with no infrastructure plan in place BEFORE further overdevelopment is crazy. So STOP! No more development unitl you fix the mess you already made.
One smart comment was made. Bus instead of light rail. Now that makes sense. The bus can be reused for other functions once realized the point-to-point train system fails due to low ridership and poor planning.
Stop this madness! Vote John Moss for Va.Beach Mayor!
REDUCE the size of VB Blvd and add bike paths? How does this help? Why are we spending $3 Million on a pedestrian bridge that few will actually use? Dig a giant tunnel and run Independence underground for how much? VB budgeted $925,000 to study this insanity?
"Big Dig" into your wallet maybe! It is time for a change in city government. It is time to restore fiscal responsibility by electing John Moss.
VA BEACH COUNCIL GOOFS UP AGAIN...
This doesn't surprise me one bit. Town Center (formerly Pembroke) and the Oceanfront are the only two areas in the city that the Council spends any money and does improvements. Keep in mind that these are the same rocket scientists that narrowed Princess Anne Road southbound (not eastbound; it's South Va. 165, not East) from eight lanes down to two lanes at Dam Neck Road (formerly Landstown Road, which it was known as in its' better days), and are so far making no effort to widen PA Rd. into a divided highway to the Princess Anne Court House at Nimmo Parkway. So what do they do at the Dam Neck/ PA Rd. intersection? Why, build a shopping mall, of course to allow for more traffic volume and confusion. And to the poster that mention Va. Beach's plans to extend Lynnhaven Parkway From Indian River Road to Centerville Turnpike...remember they've always talked about extending Ferrell Parkway (now Nim
Until bicyclists start
Until bicyclists start paying license fees, personal property taxes, and insurance on their bicycles, then they don't deserve bike lanes. Taxes and fees on automobiles pay for those roads. I wish they would create an on-ramp to 264 west from the north-bound lane from Independence Blvd. It's a fiasco when motorists have to compete to get on while others are getting off. I thought they had studied how to do a flyover from the east bound on-ramp. I would rather see that done vice bike paths or buying the N&S rail line. Light Rail is a waste of money over here.
Traffic
Planners failed to PLAN for the additional traffic when they built Pembroke and now they act like the congestion is a complete surprise! It's now a crisis and we the tax payers will foot the bill while the developers get rich. I say use the tiff to pay for improvements. (Of course, instead they reduced the tiff rate for the Pembroke area earlier this year)
Seems this city only has 2 areas that rate improvment.
Town Center and the Oceanfront.
Whatever happened to the new Indian River Road from Lynnhaven since it was tanked after 9-11?
Let me get this straight
They want to reduce the number of lanes on V.B. Blvd...REDUCE the number of lanes on Virginia Beach Blvd.
Has anyone on that city council ever tried driving in that area during daytime hours, say, between 3-7 p.m.? I'm convinced that Virginia Beach City Council doesn't care about anyone living outside of the proximity of the Municipal Center.
Reduce the width of VB Blvd?
Reducing the lane configuration on the Boulevard has to be the DUMBEST thing I've ever heard......
I'm starting to like those RENO plans..... what are these people using for brains?
If this were April this would be a really good April FOOLS prank!! :-)
Wait for the Plan before you dog it.
I agree that reading this article leads one to believe that the city wants to drop Va Beach Blvd to 4 lanes and expect all the traffic to hop on a train. The article only points out enough to get people hook on the story or riled up to spread the word to others so they will read. The full plan has been on the City website for almost a year. Most of the items in the plan have been in planning since the early 80s. The rest of the plan for Va Beach Blvd is to make Broad St 1 way headed west and Columbus St 1 way headed east. The light rail will serve as a backbone to branch off of for the n/s routes.
RENO
Vote RENO.....Re-Elect No One. We all knew that just after widening Independence Blvd. that the City Council would bow to the developers. How much money is the developer giving to selected council members running for Council in November? Quite frankly, the current Council does not have the expertise to spend and monitor this amount of money. This is another classic case of building and developing without providing the needed infrastructure at the time of development. Vote out all of those running for reelection before they can think twice about this issue. Vote RENO.....Re-Elect No One.
30 years?
For the past 30 years the VB council has been doing everything in it's power to create the mess around town center and now they want to fix it? In another 30 years? Why now? Oh yea, its election time. The developer puppets need to make some points with the normal citizens stuck in the traffic mess they created.
What good would a train do? The traffic mess is north-south. The rail runs east west. No help there. And the proposed train station is IN town center. Now how will that improve traffic?
Vote RENO.....Re-Elect No One. Clean house and start over fresh.
Sounds like....
Does anyone remember a little project up north called "the big dig"? Seems to me this tunnel idea is just the perfect for cost overruns, corruption and shoddy workmanship. My God, make Va Beach Blvd narrow? They no sooner get it expanded and now they want to tear it up again and go in the opposite direction? What are they smoking???
More misplaced priorities - we need tax relief!
Yeah, this will reduce traffic congestion, LOL - "Reduce Virginia Beach Boulevard to four lanes and provide additional sidewalks and a bike path."
$$$$
and how much did the taxpayers cough up for this dream????