Maybe the people who came to a community forum last week got through to the Virginia Beach City Council on the importance of light rail to the city's future.
Maybe Councilman Ron Villanueva hit home when he said city leaders need more political will to make controversial decisions on development. Whatever the reasons, on Saturday, after two days of consensus- building, the council summoned up enthusiasm for putting a light rail line along the city's midsection.
It agreed that a top priority for the next year will be extending Norfolk's starter line, which will end at Newtown Road. The council now is on record favoring its extension to the Oceanfront, as well as to Old Dominion University and the Norfolk Naval Station. It's not a formal, official vote, but it's the next best thing, expressing the sense of the council. This is a positive change for a city whose prosperity has been fueled for the last four decades by cheap land and gas. It gives the city staff a green light to move aggressively into a planning stage that could last for years.
Since voters rejected light rail in 1999, council members have been squeamish to endorse The Tide as a transportation priority. They consistently hedged on what would be built on the Norfolk Southern right of way, assuming the city bought it. A commuter rail was certainly a possibility, but maybe a bike path would be better, they said, or perhaps a more developed bus system.
On Saturday, Councilman Jim Wood cut through the weeds and said what has needed to be said for years. Light rail or mass transit, "we can call it whatever we want," he said, "but we've got something that stops at Newtown Road, and it doesn't make sense to start something else."
But recognizing the obvious and overcoming the obstacles for getting The Tide from Newtown Road past Town Center to the Convention Center will require a commitment that must endure years of controversy and political ups and downs.
n Money. Virginia Beach and Norfolk Southern "continue to be a long way apart" on the cost of the right of way, City Attorney Les Lilley said. An environmental impact statement, which will address ridership, costs, subsidies and alternative transportation methods, will cost $2 million. Construction of the 11-mile route will cost hundreds of millions and require tens of millions from the state and federal governments.
n Legal issues. The city can't condemn the property until Norfolk Southern has abandoned the right of way, and that can't happen as long as the courts are still deciding ownership of a critical piece of it.
n Politics. As popular and as inevitable as light rail has become, significant pockets of opposition remain. Rather than shut down the skeptics, the council must start answering them and laying out the case for the kind of new transportation and redevelopment policies that will be needed to sustain the city's prosperity across the next four decades.
Now, the job is to get citizens on board. A good opportunity presents itself on Sept. 16 at the Convention Center. The council and Hampton Roads Transit host a town hall-type meeting on the future of transportation in Virginia Beach. It provides the council a splendid opportunity to start making the case.
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Think in 4D
What pays for mass transportation. It has been said that all transits are paid for in subsidies, so then you have some who say they don't want it paid for by their taxes. But the truth is that while bus/train fair don't pay for itself. Real estate taxes gained from transit oriented development (TOD) are what ACTUALLY pay for the light rail. Look at DC's metro. Development has occured in waves, centering around the metro's stops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_oriented_development this like shows real pictures of the development in DC. Let's understand that this area is going to expand...we can either embrace it in TOD or expect VB council to extend the green line to allow for more suburban sprawl into pungo. Only adding to the strain on our roads!!
HB 3202 & the 6 MPO projects are not a "solution", they are pork
[sig] - once again Mike, the 6 MPO projects that you and your pals in the Hampton Roads Partnership keep pushing are NOT the commuter traffic congestion relief we locals are looking for. That "regional plan" is mostly a plan to benefit certain targeted business interests. It does not offer any meaningful solution to the many unmet transportation NEEDS our citizens want to have dealt with. DEMOCRATIC Governor Kaine failed to offer a better plan for our region too. He passed the buck and simply stated that whatever the MPO decided, that was what he would support. There is a lot of blame to go around for the mess we now find ourselves in, but it is guys like you and the business lobby who are most to blame for the gridlock we citizens now suffer with.
The argument can be made by
The argument can be made by citizens about something being done about transportation, however, the disagreement lies in what transportation projects were to be built and HB3202. I attended most every HRTA meeting that was held in the Tidewater area and can vouch for the disenchantment expressed by the majority of the folks in there about HB3202 and the HRTA that it created as well as the bogus MPO projects that were in there. BTW, you can't tell me that politics aren't partisan. Otherwise there wouldn't be as much lobbying in Richmond by the business community. And it still goes back as to what side your on as to "who in the district is put first" That's pure rubbish Mr. Barrett. For the record, I don't believe in representative democracy. That is business lobbists in a coat and tie. I believe in a representative republic and a republican form of government guaranteed under Article 4, Section 4 of the U.S. Constitution.
Well the candidate who beat
Well the candidate who beat Welch supported funding a transportation solution. Perhaps you can make the argument that he lost the support of his base, but in the end, the citizens showed that they want a solution, and Welch was just too clearly identified with the republican leadership that has blocked a solution. I agree that gerrymandering has been done by both parties, but I still support a solution that puts us, the citizens of a district, first, not partisan politics. The business community strongly supports the creation of a commission to design the districts subject to a final vote by the Legislature. The current system has essentially disenfranchised many of us who actually believe in representative democracy.
John Welch
Oh I totally disagree. John Welch lost his seat because because he supported HB3202. He took a lot of flack from a lot of folks (including me) at the first HRTA meeting at Hampton Convention Center and any other HRTA meeting he showed up at.
So you wouldn't consider yourself a "credible candidate"? Anyway, as for redistricting, democrats are just as guilty of gerry-mandering the lines as the republicans. They are two wings on the same bird. All of these delegates follow their party line and who works or refuses to "work for us" depends entirely on your political philosophy. Democrats have been consistant on tax and spend into oblivion and republicans like to borrow and spend into oblivion. So vote Libertarian where government who governs least governs best.
Not exactly.
I am not sure to whom you refer. John Welch lost because he did not support transportation before he decided to do so. And a number of NOVA republicans lost because of their opposition to funding transportation. Fact is, I believe the majority of Virginians would vote out of office most delegates, but of course, there needs to be a credible candidate in opposition. Regretfully, because of the inane system of redistricting, we have created a system whereby most incumbents end up with a lifetime appointment so we deserve these delegates who follow the party line and refuse to work for us. That said, I believe that a number of anti tax delegates will lose next November, and then we will have redistricting for which I hold hope that the system will be changed.
Mike Barrett - Candidate for the Virginia HOD?
Well Mr. Barrett, you still haven't answered my question. You continue to blame the republicans for their "irresponsibility" and continue to complain about it. Fact is that a few republicans lost their seats for going along with HB3202. Besides being ruled unconstitutional, it was a wake up call for them. Again you have it in your power to vote for the candidate of your choice or run for office yourself. I think you should do the latter. Don't you think that if the public is dissatified with their elected leaders that they will vote them out? You don't give the public very much credibility. When a majority of the public gets tired of it, they'll change it. I also believe that it was "your" interests that were once again subjugated, not necessarily the rest of us.
Thanks for the vote of
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Keith. Of course, you can make this as personal as you wish, but of course many of our local delegates pledged to vote to increase taxes and fees to fund our transportation needs, yet after the republican get together at the Homestead just before the special session, they received their marching orders that reportedly made clear that any delegate that broke ranks would head up the doggie patrol at the capitol. So all the work went for naught, and our interests were once again subjugated to the Grover Norquist No Tax Pledge, a pledge that guarantees that delegates who have signed it cannot work for us. We need new delegates; it is really that simple, and since our present crew can be whipped into silence by Bill Howell, why would anyone vote for them?
Run Mike Run!
Well, Mr. Barrett, again you place blame on Speaker Howell and the republican HOD for not doing what is in the best interest of Mike Barrett. Yet the man still retains his seat as well as his post as speaker. Therefore, I will say it again. When are you going to submit your papers as a candidate for the HOD? Go ahead and run on that platform for higher taxes and fees for those who struggle to put gas in their cars and get to work or blocking attempts for Virginia to get it's own energy resources off it's own coast. A member of the HOD is a part time job. As a CEO, I'm sure you could get the 45 days (or 60 in some cases) in January to be in Richmond and bankrupt the rest of us so that your HR buddies would be happy and richer.
Ken, we don't need the $4.4B 3rd Crossing - the port wants it
Ken, we do not need the massively expensive 3rd Crossing, the port wants it because the port wants to expand and it will serve their new trucks they desire to dump onto our highway system. We have far greater REAL NEEDS then that boondoggle. The "new" RT 460 is also mostly pushed to support moving more trucks in and out of the port. What we, those of us that live here, NEED is traffic congestion relief. The MPO plan isn't it. It never was. Once again, I offer you facts. You choose to ignore them. The HRPDC stated that in 2021, with all 6 projects completed our region's highways would have 670 lane miles of LOS E-F (severe congestion). Yet, in 2021 if we did not build the 6 MPO projects we would have 670 lane miles of LOS E-F - the same severe congestion. Face it, the MPO plan was not a solution.
Here are some facts
This area desperately needs a third crossing. That's one of the MPO's projects. We also need to increase capacity at the midtown tunnel. That's another of the MPO's projects. We also need more lanes on I-64 in Chesapeake between 464 and Bowers hill, including a new high rise bridge. That's another of the MPO's projects. Us-460 between Suffolk and Petersburg needs upgrading. That's another project.
But somehow only the ports will benefit from all this. How? Are these new roadways going to be restricted to port traffic only?
Direct attention to Delegates
As much as I find the VBTA type opposition to improvements in transortation funding to be irritating and non sensical, our angst needs to be directed at Bill Howell and the republican delegates that absolutely refused to raise the taxes and fees we need to fund the regional projects and to maintain, repair, and expand our local transportation infrastructure. Many of these delegates in Hampton Roads had said they support this additional revenue, but when they had to face the ire of the Speaker, they wilted, and now have reverted to making us, the citizens, the culprit. Frankly, these republican delegates are fine people locked in a totally disfunctional party system, and regretfully, they have to go. We need new candidates to replace these delegates, and whether they are republican or democrat, they must pledge to support the funding necessary to fund our MPO plan and to maintain and provide the state match to build new local roads.
More Libertarian Nonsense from Doc Tabor
There is absolutely no transit system in the world that pays for itself without a taxpayer subsidy. It is a public service like trash pick-up, patching pot holes and fighting fires.
Attitudes like yours are why we have horrible roads and no relief in sight from the state. Fortunately, your politics were rebuffed last year at the polls and will be again when Moss is defeated (again) in November.
Umm, Reid
Not to nickpick here, but the MPO's six projects would relieve congestion at the Hampton Roads Birdge-Tunnel, Monitor-Merrimac Bridge-Tunnel, Downtown tunnel, Midtown tunnel, High Rise Bridge, I-64 between Bowers Hill and 464, I-64 on the peninsula, and I-264 throughout VA Beach.
So when you say the six projects would do nothing to solve any transportation needs, I'm left to assume you don't know what you're talking about.
Fair is Fair
Tell you what, transit riders can pay 100% of the purchase price on a new cars for drivers and 70% of the ongoing operating costs our cars, just as we are expected to pay for their light rail and buses to the same extent.
Fair is fair.
Or transit can pay its own way and we can pay ours.
But so long as transit riders aren't willing to even pay their own way, we should not consider keeping what has been built, much less adding to it.
Naval Base
The Feds have already authorized light rail to the Naval base, so it's going to happen.
On a referendum, under HB 6028 Virginia Beach light rail is a state project (DRPT) in conjunction with HRT. Therefore, only the General Assembly can put it to referendum.
Reid and the VBTA need to learn that the only thing that can stop light rail in Virginia Beach is the FTA.
All the business groups of
All the business groups of which I am a member support the MPO plan and support sufficient funding for VDOT to meet maintenance requirements and the state match for local construction projects. Of course, the members of the House of Delegates that you and your cohorts in the anti tax payer groups have supported in the past would not vote for funding solutions for either problem, prefering instead to fall back on excuse after excuse, including a call for the eighth audit of VDOT in the last seven years. Many of the Delegates have taken the Grover Norquist No Tax pledge which requires them to "cut off the arms and legs of government so it can fit in the bathtub and drown." With this kind of pledge, how could they vote for us?
Mike spins on ... ha, ha, ha ...
Gee Mike, exactly what part of SB 668 or HB 3202 would have contributed ONE DIME to fixing those bridges you mention? Oh, that's right - they would not. Why? Because the multi-Billion Dollar plan you and your pals keep pushing isn't about spending our transportation funds to fix bridges that need repair, or would the plan have reduced commuter traffic congestion; instead, it would INCREASE congestion at the MMMBT! Like I said, the MPO's 6 projects you and your business lobby keep pushing doesn't solve the transportation needs that our citizens - and I - know exist. Your plan is mostly about expanding the Port and more development, both residential and economic.
Correct!
Yes, Reid is correct; the referendum failed yet 78% of our citizens now acknowledge that our transportation system is getting worse and 77% say they would pay more in taxes and fees to fix it. The effect of the failed referendum, and the failed special session this year, and the lack of resolve by the Legislature is evident everyday as we drive on roads that need repair, bridges that have serious degradation, as we witness the closure of bridges and the imminent abandonment of the Jordan Bridge, and wait in two and three light cycle delays at local intersections. Soon, VDOT will cease all funding of local construction projects, and even maintenance funds will be cut further. How bad does our system have to get for our Legislature to accept their responsibility to act? Must the Lesner bridge be closed? Must the delay at the tunnels and bridges last hours vice minutes? Must another major industry leave town? I guess we will find out.
You know what's funny?
That 2002 vote would've paid for all the major road projects in this region, no tolls required. Now, even with more taxes than the 2002 referendum would have provided, most if not all the projects will need tolls as part of their funding. So basically, sooner or later, we'll have to pay a lot more than we would have if it had passed.
Now with all that in mind, if I was someone who actively campaigned against that referendum, I'd try and keep quiet about that. But that's me, I don't enjoy looking like a fool.
Mike is still peeved his $2.5M YES Campaign was badly beated!
Mike Barrett's last post made me smile. In 2002 Mike and his business lobby friends spent over $2.5M in ads and outreach to "sell" the good people of Tidewater on their wrong plan for our region's transportation, a plan rejected by a two-to-one margin by Tidewater voters! Myself and other citizens raised 40K for the kNOw Campaign. Anyone recall the embarrassed "YES Campaign" that voters told "NO!" loud and clear? Mike and his Chamber/Partnership pals regrouped and came back in 2007 with HB 3202; they lobbied hard for creating unconstitutional regional taxing authorities. Myself and a few others sued the General Assembly - and we won by a 7-0 vote in the VA Supreme Court! Our issues? We want the right transportation plan - and we want those that benefit most to pay for it. The same is true for Light Rail.
That criticism of Henry Ryto
That criticism of Henry Ryto is like saying Reid Greenmun is a hugh fan of subsidized roads. Fact is, we don't pass on the cost of roads to taxpayers, and we don't fully pass on the cost of transit either. And Reid and his cohorts are doing all they can to stop progress toward the goal of financing transportation improvements in any fashion they can. They paid for an ad in opposition to the referendum in which two delegates told Virginians that they could not trust the Legislature to handle this task fairly. OK, let's elect new delegates who will move forward to create the transportation network we require for our economy to prosper and our quality of life to improve.
Why does HRT's Henry Ryto fear a referendum?
Henry Ryto is a HUGE fan of taxpayer subsidized transit and Light Rail. He doesn't support those that actually USE the Light rail paying the full cost of their rides. He supports government wealth redistribution as a way to fund his pet projects. Why does Henry Ryto fear another referedum?
Eventually it probably will!
Eventually it probably will extend to there! People are so in the now they can't think about why these projects get built in phases! Yes it is expensive, which is why it doesn't go all the way to NOB right now... But it is planned if I am not mistaken... But to build it to there, it has to be done in phases or else the cities would go bankrupt building the whole system... The Metro system in DC is still under construction/expansion... Now how long has it been in existence? A VERY long time! Support it now because if everyone thinks like you, then of course it will never reach NOb becuase it will never get built!
Should VB Ride the Tide?
In 1999 I voted against the project. At that time, as now, it was only to go from the Beach to downtown Norfolk. To me, and many of my friends and associates, that was USELESS!
If (and this is a BIG IF), this light rail white elephant were to go all the way to NOB, then I would support it. Otherwise, NO WAY!
Ride the Tide to NOB, otherwise it won't float my boat.
Let's Vote
No, lets do vote again! And then it will pass, and the VBTA and all of the other neagative people will be made fools of... They should move to Pungo! ALL OF THEM! Anyway, TOD density doesn't exist before the rail, whoever said that is pulling a political type comment and ignoring the real facts. The facts are that rail comes first, TOD second... Are you of the same group that said Town Center would never work and never be filled? No, I will give you that adding rail alone won't fix the problem, but that is why the bus system needs to be reworked too and low and behold, what is going to be done in Norfolk when the rail becomes active? New bus routes! I am so tired of small and narrow minded people in Virignia Beach!
"Since 1999 Costs have Only Gone Up"?
No, the Norfolk Starter Line is only 45% of the price of the 1999 proposal. In addition, so far it's under budget.
What people should be asking is why Reid and the VBTA are so desperate for a light rail referendum. They know it isn't going to happen, but the VBTA's internal politics has them clamoring for one.
Put this non-essentail massive new spending on the ballot
Government needs to serve the will of the people. What needs to be done is to place the question on the ballot. 1st determine the true costs and how it will be paid for, and WHO will pay, and then let the voters decide. We already said "No!" in Virginia Beach to the same low volume light rail line. Since 1999 the costs have only gone up. If Norfolk wants to waste hundreds of millions of tax dollars, that is Norfolk's problem. We have much higher priority needs in Virginia Beach. We have commuter traffic congestion and the proposed Light Rail line doesn't reduce existing commuter congestion. But, DEVELOPERS like to use Light Rail to sell new high density Transit Oriented DEVELOPMENT (TOD). Adequate density of high paying jobs does not exist to support the TOD concept along the NS ROW.