When Virginia state Del. Algie Howell Jr. introduced what was dubbed the “droopy drawers” legislation in 2004, his proposal to fine people $50 for wearing clothing bordering on indecent brought him international notoriety.
Media outlets from around the world descended on Richmond to cover the debate about the bill directed at kids who expose their bottoms, or at least their underwear. The American Civil Liberties Union and black leaders derided him, and talk show hosts poked fun at him.
But who’s the joke on now?
In the years since, several localities across the country have passed similar laws, including more than six cities in Louisiana. The laws apply to women, too, but are aimed primarily at men wearing pants that fall too far below the waist.
“Sagging,” as it’s usually called, has been illegal in Delcambre, La., since June 2007 and can result in a fine of up to $500 and a six-month jail sentence. Chicago suburb Lynwood made it illegal in July of this year, around the same time it became illegal in Riviera Beach, Fla.
Flint, Mich., banned them in July, too, with offenders subject to up to a year in jail and $500 in fines. Police officers there even have a visual guide to punishment: Visible underwear gets a warning, pants below the butt with underwear fully showing is considered disorderly conduct and a fully exposed bum – meaning, skin showing – warrants an indecent-exposure charge.
At least 10 other cities nationwide, including Atlanta, Baltimore, Dallas and Charlotte, N.C., are considering a sagging ban.
To be sure, saggy-pants laws are no longer tongue in cheek; lawmakers are cracking down.
Having seen his idea go from being mocked to a full-on trend, Howell, who represents parts of Norfolk, Chesapeake and Virginia Beach, can claim pioneer status.
“I knew I was right then,” he said. “It didn’t bother me that people did not understand it. Parents have lost control.”
Though he said he would not reintroduce the legislation, he said, “I’d like to see it passed all over the country.”
Will localities in Hampton Roads consider it?
“It makes me cringe,” said Anthony Burfoot, the vice mayor of Norfolk, who is typically dandily dressed. Saggy pants are “not the norm and shouldn’t be accepted as the norm, but it shouldn’t be a police issue.”
Suffolk has “not deliberated on the matter,” City Clerk Erika Dawley said. Portsmouth “doesn’t think it’s worth a legal challenge,” according to Kenneth Melvin, a state delegate whose jurisdiction includes Portsmouth. And although Chesapeake City Council member C.E. “Cliff” Hayes Jr. finds sagging “despicable,” he doesn’t “think legislating it is going to solve it.”
Banning saggy pants won’t even fly in Virginia Beach, where, at least on the Oceanfront, there’s a perpetual standoff between people seeking a family atmosphere and youth of occasionally questionable taste.
“Virginia Beach is a diverse community, and we welcome those who wear baggy or tight jeans,” City Councilman Ron Villanueva said.
Apart from legislation, adults have tried appealing to the intellect and egos of those wearing saggy pants, informing them that the style, in fact, comes out of prison culture, where inmates are not allowed belts. So why would you want to look like a prisoner?
That appeal has largely been rebuffed.
Howell has even linked the practice to slavery – telling young men that masters discouraged belts so slaves couldn’t run very far – but that didn’t get him very far either, he said.
For their part, people wearing saggy pants don’t offer much by way of justifying their attire.
“I just do it,” said Bennett Moore, a 21-year-old student at Tidewater Community College who was waddling up Granby Street in downtown Norfolk recently, his booty on full display.
Do people say anything to him about it?
“Yeah, sometimes.”
Who?
“Old people. I listen, but it’s just me.”
Does he foresee an occasion where this could be inappropriate?
“When I get a job, they’ll be above my waist,” he said.
Minutes later, Raymond Smith, 19, was tugging at his jeans, which allowed a view of his undershorts-covered rump, in MacArthur Center mall in Norfolk.
Funny, he said, “Somebody in church just asked me about that. He asked me, 'What’s the purpose?’”
Well?
“There’s no purpose. It’s just something I do, because it makes me look street – have a swagger,” he said.
What about people being able to see your buns? In public? Isn’t that kind of weird?
“That’s what the basketball shorts are for,” he said, acknowledging that the layers underneath are engineered to keep his pants from simply pooling at his ankles. (By the way, his pants never sag when he’s around his mother, he said.)
Could there be a practical reason for sagging pants? Maybe.
Some people of color – women usually – have said that mass market retailers often overlook their sometimes “bootylicious” body types in the design process. Could issues of sizing and fit have anything to do with sagging?
“I design with no specific person in mind,” said Somos Thompson, head designer at Blac Label Premium, a global urban-wear company based in Virginia Beach. “We do have a slimmer fit, so I understand that. But the problem I see is that people don’t know their body size – they may need to go up or down a size.”
He says a guy can get the baggy look without exposing himself. Salespeople, he said, should offer customers good choices, and customers should also know what looks best on them.
As a professional designer and a black man in touch with street style, Thompson is caught between two ideologies.
On the one hand, he respects individual expression.
“I don’t knock anyone’s style,” he said, adding that he does not support the idea of the government banning saggy jeans, because he said it’s contrary to freedom of expression.
On the other hand, “I think it’s terrible, and it looks crazy.”
Researcher Jake Hays contributed to this article.
Malcolm Venable, (757) 446-2662, malcolm.venable@pilotonline.com
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if I had it my way
All student in Norfolk public schools would wear uniforms. I know many of you will disagree, but that's the way I feel. Gang members wear their colors to schools. Long T-shirts cover up way to much, should a gun or other weapon be under it. It's cheaper for the paretns, and there would be less student competition. I plan to write to our city council and school board, to get a handle on this. Schools are no place for sagging, and problem other clothing. I grew up in the country, 100 years ago, and no fads had reached our area. We dressed liked ladies and gentlemen.
Gertz
I don't know about the public schools today, but I do know that back in the early 70's when I was in high school, the dress code for Norfolk Public Schools was lax. I knew girls who went braless (and it wasn't discrete,either) in school, and I wore my skirts as short as I possibly could. If I'd bent over, I'd probably have shown everything underneath. My mom was very strict. I'd roll my skirt up as soon as I left the house. If my mom only knew... My favorite outfit was hotpants with boots...IN SCHOOL!
I did it in defiance because I could. :) I also turned out just fine.
In all honesty, I very rarely see these kids' underwear out on the streets. They are wearing baggy t shirts over the pants. I'm in total agreement that underwear should not be exposed in school, but aside from that, kids will be kids.
I don't know about Norfolk
But Virginia Beach has allowed it. My sons graduated in 2001 and 2003, and it went on during those time frames, as well as when they were in middle school. Sad, so sad.
as a parent
would you allow you child to leave the house with his pants sagging? What I would like to know is where are the parent(s) of these boys? One of the biggest problems our society is faced with is a serious lack of parenting skills, or parent(s) who even care. Should we say anything to these kids who want to display their underware, and the crotch of their pants almost touching the ground? Yes! Because if we don't, no one will. I asked before, but no one gave a reply. Are kids allowed to dress this way and attend Norfolk public schools?
Saggy
They look like idiots plain and simple.......................
Money well sent
I see that Virginia was fix all the other problems with the state. pfft
Trends come and go fairly quickly
Yet this mess has been around for what 10 or 15 years now. This is definitely not a trend.
Trends
It's just a trend, and they are wearing pants under the pants so there isn't much exposure. I don't like the attitude of laziness that is common with hip hop community (lazy dress, sitting with the seat so far back in the car you can't see, etc), but I don't get worked up over it. I'd rather see people laid back versus all worked up and looking to start ****. Trends come and go. Backwards clothes? Make ya jump jump. Now where was my sparkly glove and red jacket with zippers... . .
I heard this started in the
I heard this started in the jails and the men who wore their pants low and saggy meant they were "available".
attention getting
these guys are trying to get attention just like girls that wear their shorts/skirts with their rear ends hanging out...disgusting, if you ask me and sort of frightening, too...think about it...the guys are showing their underwear and girls are showing their butt cheeks, but who do you think is more likely to be raped?...the girl who is half mooning everyone...where are the parents...make your laws and keep both the males and females in mind to help protect the idiot kids who just want to play their cat and mouse games...
The ways "we" dress our
The ways "we" dress our just as offensive to the saggy britches gang as the way they dress is to some of you. Get over it. You don't hear it much anymore but it is still a free country.
Craig
I wasn't poking fun at you; I was poking fun at saggy pants wearers. I'm in your corner brother.
there is a difference
The grocery store, sidewalks, our neighborhoods are not beaches. there is a place for everything, and you don't see bikini's in grocery stores.
Droopy Drawers et al
This ranks above the backward baseball caps which is equally dumb and serves no purpose. Might as well be wearing a sign that says "Hey look at me, I'm stupid!"
These people have nothing else better to do!!!!
If men want to walk around with their pants sagging then so be it. Women and men walk around on the beach half naked all the time.......we have bigger fish to fry in Virginia then this nonsense.
I want to know, please
Is this manner of dressing allowed in Norfolk Public Schools? If so please provide proof and which school(s). If I have to start a crusade I will, and I invite everyone to join me.
Bad Fashion affects every generation
Don't you wish you could be a fly on the wall when these kids look at their high school photos in 20 years? They will ask themselves why they wanted their legs to look like they were 2 ft long and remember how difficult it was to waddle to class. They will cringe when they realize they looked like a little kid playing dress up in daddy's clothes.
If lawmakers do decide to move forward with legislation towards the fashion inept, they need to add: pajamas bottoms worn as pants, XXXL women's stretch leggings, 100% polyester anything or perhaps your next fashion faux pas.
The fashion trend is stupid, but making a law against it is equally stupid. If they are exposing their body parts then current law already applies. If not, leave them alone.
Redskin/Barking Penguin
Redskin - my most recent post should be taken as a comedic retort/tongue-in-cheek to this obviously hilarious sight. However, since their britches are hanging down that far, I doubt they can conceal a weapon...let alone their under-gotchies.
I'm well into my 40's. My dress code tends to be limited to jeans and flannel shirts. On accassion, I use a cane to hobble around...but it's a cool looking cane!
BarkingPenguin - great observation! Alas, public displays of affection of this nature are not condoned unless the consummators are evil squirrels or fruit-flies.
Careful Craig
Don't be a player hater Craig . . . these guys are tough and expressing themselves. They might try to put a cap in ya for dissing them. Let me get something staight for you "I gotta express myself". You come to my business wearing your pants sagging ridiculously low or have an excessive amount of tatooes showing or excessive amount of piercing on your head . . . you will not get hired and you will be asked to leave. Peace out.
To Noon
I remember the Madonna fashion craze. My daughter was just entering middle school. She pointed out that it was tacky, and that's what she thinks of droopy drawers now. There's a time and a place for everything... Maybe I should just ask the next clown I see, baring his butt, if he's auditioning for an underwear commercial.
Lets give them what they're asking for
Since this practice of sagging originated in prisons, lets show these saggers what it really means. Prisoners are already used to provide labor on public roads and in buildings such as Scope (cleanup after events). How about if officers escort prisoners as they approach saggers and offer to couple with them, as their sagging invites them to do so.
Maybe...
if we started verbally embarassing these folks, this "fad" will come to complete stop? No need for a law.
If this is considered to be freedom of expression, then I will utilize my right to freedom of speech.
Terms such as puddin' pants, fart knocker, dartboard, a** clown, etc. must be considered to be fair game as well as others that decorum forbids my posting here.
As as minimum, if we simply point at them and laugh histarically, they'll get the idea that "yes - they do look like complete idiots with their britches hanging down that far".
If you wouldn't do it in front of your mother, why do it in public?
to Jo
uhm . . . women already do show their underwear in public and have since at least the 1980's, over 20 years ago, a whole generation. Your hypothetical daughter probably does too
How About Plumbers?
I was thinking about this offshoot legislation but remembered that's what plumbers putty is for.......
If you think it's ok
then you won't mind when your daughter brings home someone who looks like a clown? And if it's ok for guys to do it, what would you think if your daughter hiked up her dress and let her underwear show? Is that acceptable under freedom of speech as well?
let's cut to the chase
Make it against the law and be done with it. Sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, even if that protection is making a fool of themselves. If this is allowed in schools, then our school board needs to be fired immediately. No if, and's or but's about it!
Hilarious
I think we should ban woman in excess of 150 pounds wearing body suits and tight shirts when their abs look like a bowl of jello... I also believe we should ban people from wearing flip flops or open toed shoes if they do not have a pedicure or if there are excessive corns and bunions... Any woman older then 40 still trying to wear miniskirts and shorts with their legs all pale and those nasty blue veins exposed should be fined... Any person still wearing a mullet hairstyle should be arrested on sight... If one's jeans are so tight that your genetalia is clearly defined, you will be fined... the black eyeliner, wallet chains, and all black trench coats in the summertime should be banned as well. All elderly people with their pants pulled up to their chest should be reprimanded... if your pants stop at your shins and are not capris, you will be hauled in.
Dress codes needed
I believe we should have the right to ban baggy pants at least in certain social settings. For example, they should not be allowed in school since they are hazardous. I use to drive a school bus for the Beach and have seen many a student trip and fall in the street while running to catch a bus. What you wear on your private time is your business but while attending school we should have some dress codes. It's called respect. Something kids these days have failed to learn. In the real world, we all have to conform to dress codes set by our employers and wearing baggy pants, with a sideway ball cap is not acceptable. Best you learn those lessons now so you can function later.
offensive to the majority of people or just people you know
Basically, as I see it, manner of dress is a form of speech. Speech is protected. Visible boxer shorts is not dangerous or obscene it is just silly. Silliness is not a moral offense as is evidenced by all the "ban the baggies" posters.
It's true
that the "sagging pants" fad comes from the prison homosexual culture. Obviously, a lot of kids either don't know or don't care. It's not just Black kids. I've seen every racial & ethnic group in this "style". I've even seen grown men, often plumbers, carpenters & such, with their crack showing. Believe it or not, the IQ levels of some "saggers" are quite high, which makes one wonder why they dress that way. My son, now in his early 20's, never had a desire to wear his pants that way. My 3 daughters, now all grown, knew not to bring a young man to our home, wearing his pants that way. My wife & I never had to say anything to our children on the topic. They thought it was a stupid thing to do.