NORFOLK
City leaders say that Hampton Roads Transit has failed to inform them about cost overruns for the $232.1 million light-rail system and has not properly explained the project to residents and business owners who will be affected by it.
During a City Council meeting last week in which half a dozen residents voiced frustrations about HRT, Mayor Paul Fraim termed responses to residents from HRT "unacceptable" and "symptomatic of ongoing problems with HRT."
"They just don't get it," he said.
He later tempered his remarks by saying he has since learned more about the issue and "was probably too tough on them."
Councilman Barclay C. Winn said he's been asking for figures on the city's share of the project for seven months. The numbers are scheduled to be presented to the council Monday at its retreat. But as of late Friday, Assistant City Manager Stanley A. Stein said he had not yet gotten updated numbers from HRT.
The city, federal and state governments are combining to pay for the light-rail system, which will extend 7.4 miles from Eastern Virginia Medical Center to the Virginia Beach border. It is scheduled to open in 2010. Norfolk is slated to pay for cost overruns and to subsidize the rail service.
HRT, a regional public body that provides mass transit, primarily bus service, throughout most of Hampton Roads, is overseeing construction of light rail and will operate it. The agency is funded primarily by federal, state and local governments.
City Manager Regina V.K. Williams said the city, not HRT, will be "held accountable by residents and businesses for how the project is managed.
"We're only going to do this once, and we need to get it right," she said.
Councilman W. Randy Wright, a member of the HRT board who led efforts to attract light rail, said he wants to review all future communication between the agency, residents and businesses.
"We can do a better job than we're doing, but I don't want to get into finger-pointing," Wright said. He said some of the angst can be traced to muddied lines between the city, the transit agency and its contractors.
Overall, Wright said, "I think HRT is doing a good job."
Michael Townes, HRT president, bristled at the criticisms. "We are doing this on behalf of the citizens, we're not doing something to them," he said. "I think our efforts have been substantial, yet I'm also one who knows things can improve."
City officials say they have had problems over other issues, too.
Light rail has generated far more scrutiny because it is the largest public infrastructure project in the city's history and will change the lives of residents who live near it.
Many Ingleside residents said they fear that light rail will bring crime, noise, congestion and commercial activity into their neighborhood. They've repeatedly expressed frustration over not getting answers.
Fraim said HRT does a good job running mass transit, and, he assumes, is doing well at managing the construction of light rail.
"Communicating with the public is something they just don't do very well," he said.
City officials said the agency sent a series of letters to Sture Sigfred Jr. and his wife, Barbara Zoby. The family owns and operates four downtown restaurants and owns two others.
HRT needed easements through some of their properties, including a 7-inch stretch along the property line of 456 Fish, an upscale Granby Street eatery.
City officials asked HRT officials to contact the family before writing so they could meet with him to explain what they needed.
HRT sent the letters before meeting with the family, however. As a result, the family thought the agency wanted to condemn one of the restaurants.
"It was a very bureaucratic letter," Williams said. "It was confusing."
Alarmed, Sigfred and Zoby asked for a meeting with Fraim.
"These are issues we shouldn't have to be dealing with," Fraim said.
Wright and Townes said they sent form letters, which are required by federal authorities for acquisition using federal money. After learning of the confusion, they said a cover letter explaining their intent will be sent in the future.
Greg Underwood, a resident of Stonebridge Crossing, an upscale community near Norfolk State University, complained about a response to his request for information on whether there will be a buffer between light rail and his neighborhood.
"We're going to do landscaping and hopefully more out there," Williams said.
"We are right up on people's property out there," she said. She said she's been asking HRT officials "to put yourselves in the shoes of the residents."
The council informally agreed last week to build a berm to shield the neighborhood from noise.
Business owner Howard Forbes was forced to move his ProTime Automotive repair shop from the space he was leasing on Newtown Road to make way for a train station. Delays in the acquisition resulted in Forbes operating two locations, including the new one in Virginia Beach, for several months in order to qualify for relocation assistance.
Although the Norfolk shop closed in July, Forbes has not received a relocation payment despite what he said have been weekly promises from HRT.
"The biggest problem with all this is I spent a ton of money moving this place... and I can't get anything back and I can't get an answer," he said. "It's not been good. I've had sleepless nights."
HRT admitted that getting Forbes his money is taking longer than expected. Tom Holden, HRT's public affairs manager, said Forbes is the first to claim relocation money and delays occurred while the agency set up the new process.
Harry Minium, (757) 446-2371, harry.minium@pilotonline.com
Debbie Messina, (757) 446-2588, debbie.messina@pilotonline.com
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You better believe they are
We as engineers work for a living. If you pay me to design a light rail system, I will take all the tax dollars you would like to pay me and do my best. If you ask me to do a transportation study I will perform that for you too with a good recomendation. Politicians on the other hand, like to spend tax dollars. Politicians, much like the laypublic, don't always understand engineering and transportation issues. A lawyer will defend for a fee, a guilty man knowing he is guilty. Light rail will not make any impact whatsoever on our local roadway congestion. It will take available tax dollars away from projects that could actually help (additional tunnel lanes anyone?). It will create an additional burden on taxpayers (in huge ongoing operational costs) that will further take funding away from useful transportation projects for years and years to come. There will be no measurable metric for success that will be met by light rail which is nothing more than a bus on steel wheels confined to one route to which all users STILL HAVE TO DRIVE TO IN ORDER TO USE EFFECTIVELY.
ok
I'm sure the engineers and planners involved in this undertaking are aware of both st. louis and charlotte's experience with light rail.
Matter of fact I do
I happen to be in the infrastructure engineering business. It brought me to VA...and took me out. I've worked on more transportation studies, proposals, and projects than you know existed. One of my best friends and former employer is currently president of a company that does nothing but light rail. I still do research for him for BD purposes. If success was measured only in ridership, you might have something to talk about. It is not. Buy everyone in the country a new Cadillac with tax dollars and you will probably approach 100% "ridership". Will it be a success? Let me answer for you....no. You have no clue what the metrics are for meaningful cost benefit ratios so you cannot address the conversation intelligently. Charlotte and St. Louis are both acknowledged in the transportation industry as fiascos that nobody wants to repeat.
Do we have to go over this again!
Ill post this again for you Steve!!!
To those comparing Norfolk's light rail with Charlotte's & St. Louis- let's see...Charlotte's expected daily ridership was projected at 9,100, within 3 months of it's opening the daily ridership was averaging 14,000, NOW 16,000!!! St. Loius, with a daily ridership of 73,200 (FY 2007) seems to be doing great with plans for 5 new lines. Lets not forget about Denver's daily ridership of 195,616, and Portland's 104,200. These are easy facts to understand and to find if you're looking. Do you research anything other than news reports STEVE???
Larry is just plain wrong about Charlotte
Charlottes went over budget by over $200M (over 100% over budget!!!)and months late. Residents are up in arms over the traffic congestion and pollution it has caused by at grade crossings downtown. Residents along the line are up in arms over decreased property values due to noise, congestion, and pollution. This failure was a major issue in recent elections. Do your homework. Considering that 90% of the ridership of light rail are those who did not drive anyway, big deal about ridership above "projected" levels and my rear 16,000 cars are off the road. They were not there to start with or were driven to a train station. The development you mention had been on the books for years and light rail proponents try to take credit for anything built "AL" (after light rail). What was responsible for all the development in Charlotte BL???
Exactly Why
Mis-Management. Poor performance. Total irresponsibility. No fiscal accountability. And lack of competent leadership. This is exactly why the citizens of VB voted NO to light rail.
Isn't the BOD of HRT made up of policital appointees from the cities?
So norfolk is accountable for failure once as the city pushing light rail with no expertise, and second as (Vice-Chair) representative management of TDCHR.
More irresponsibility
Once again the city managers have demonstrated their ignorance and recklessness when it comes to financial responsibility. Now we have a train to nowhere that is already into cost overruns. To spend over a million dollars to move the stop because NSU is whining about the location--whose purpose is to serve the school--is ridiculous. If they don't like it where it was to be then let NSU pay to move the thing. Fraim, just how are we going to pay for this thing? Given the state of the economy we should immediately stop construction and mothball this thing NOW!
HRT learning as they go
City Manager Regina V.K. Williams said the city, not HRT, will be "held accountable by residents and businesses for how the project is managed.
So the wrong people are held responsible and no one really held accountable
…”muddied lines between the city, the transit agency and its contractors.”
Good indicator of failure, at least mismanagement of any project and financial uncertainty.
…”HRT admitted that getting Forbes his money is taking longer than expected. Tom Holden, HRT's public affairs manager, said Forbes is the first to claim relocation money and delays occurred while the agency set up the new process.”
THIS type of issue was known to come about. WHY was not the process already in place?
HRT is having a difficult time with a single project. Just think if the non-elected Hampton Roads Transit Authority was given the power of taxation? See Manager Williams comment.
This light rail project is small in comparison.
oh don't go there
I don't want to hear it from the City Coundil or the Mayor about HRT. They KNEW what the heck they were getting into before they did, now they claim HRT isn't giving them the info they need?????? Give us a break! We are not stupid!
Light Rail?
The problem with the Light Rail Project is it does not take people where they need to go, so it seems to be just a ride to the Beach. (If VABeach agrees)
The second problem is that this is the company that has had a dismal record with its Bus line in the past.
The proper route would have been from the NC line to the Shipyards and Govt. Bases where people need to go to work with spur lines to the Cities along the way.
For what it will cost to build and for the maintenance, they could have just made the right of way an Expressway for Cars, and given the users a used Buick!
Only one issue I see
You can announce the cure for all cancers and six people will still complain.
The one issue that looks real is the bureaucracy dragging its feet and getting relocation money to businesses and home owners. These aren't people that have tons of cash reserves to float this kind of expense while the government gets around to cutting a check. This isn't a new problem or unique to this project.
Confused
Seems that fraim can't make up his mind. It is HRT's total mismanagement or another council failure?
It's tough to justify wasting $232 million in tax dollars for an idea that won't work, won't be used, and was not needed. So both HRT and norfolk have to start the blame game to ensure they are pointing fingers at each other.
Why did they fold to NSU, but are ignoring citizens?
Steven Doesn't Know What he Is Talking About
You mention Charlotte as a failure - well you are just plain wrong. The Charlotte light rail has been running now for a year; and average daily ridership is over 16,000 people. Imagine if we could take 16,000 cars off our local highways! In fact Charlotte's week end usage has surprised the operator (Charlotte Area Transit) and had to add extra runs to their schedule. Charlotte has ordered 4 more passenger cars to add to their trains. The economic development at the park & rides lots is in full swing. There are condo's & upscale apartments being built or planned. The covenience of living within walking distance of a station and working downtown is becoming quite popular. Can one only dare to imagine the possibilities at Ingleside, Ballentine, or Newtown Road. The "Train to Nowwhere" will eventually go East the ocean front and West along Hampton Blvd by ODU and on to the Navy Base. Success does not happen overnight, or even in one year like Charlotte, however, I'm convinced the light rail will be an important piece of economic history for the area.
any takers???
we're at 232 million and counting now. I'll bet $1,000 right now that just this basic portion of the project takes at least 300 million to finish...if it ever does.
You Just don't Get it, Mayor Fraim
Stop pandering, politicizing, covering your "south end" and criticizing without foundation. Try something new: LEAD us into solutions. A mayor should have leadership qualities. what happened?
I may be wrong, but there was a study done years ago regarding many of the questions you asked; Norfolk paid for the Light Rail study. Did you read the study results, or just pay for the study? Check city files and you may find it.
Cost overruns have also been addressed in the past, and we were made aware of them. Were you not listening?
Come on, Fraim! Get off your high horse and do something constructive for a change.
How do panderers such as Fraim ever get elected?
Told you so, told you so, told you so
Here we go down the path of St. Louis, Charlotte and all the other failed light rail projects. Poorly planned, over budget, late, resident abusing, taxpayer fiascos. Only the Socialist Republic of Norfolk could manage to muck it up even worse than everyone else.