Prosecutors say Frederick knew police were coming to door

Right or wrong we can't bring the dead back to life. I have no doubt that their are people in power who bend the rules and I would urge people to think more along the lines of cause and effect and not what SHOULD have been done. We are taught, at least we used to be, about our rights. Mr. Frederick's right could possibly have been violated. What is sad to me is the fact that the man grew plants and felt he had to shoot someone over them. There are worse substances deemed legal are our prison are over populated.

ending sentences, in your latest post, are prime examples of your "I'm always right" attitudes. Nowhere, in any of my posts, on the subject of the Frederick case, did I mention the ethnicity or race, of anyone involved, in that case or the case of the 17yr old girl. So, how could anyone, other than you, using your flawed reasoning, arrive at race was the issue in my posts?

you've read many of my posts, you should know I studied psychology in college. I know exactly what I described you as doing. I have never said I have problems with Whites of modern times. Again, you're seeing what you wish to see. The only matter, in which I have a problem, with you, is your inability to acknowledge you don't know what you're writing on, at times. Your insistence that I'm the name you wrote, despite no evidence except the unsound reasoning which is in your mind, implies you have issues with others having sound reasoning different from whatever you feel is reasonable. I have always been a forgiving person, which is 1 reason I still interact with you even though you've attempted to insult me on several occasions. Yes, you most definitely, need examination, if not self, perhaps by a professional.

"That's why you need some self examination."

Waht you are attempting to do is called "mirroring." It is a basic psychological technique. A funny attempt but an attempt none the less.

tmiler, you and I have had some discussions about your past. I understand you have a valid reason to be upset w/ some white people. However I am not one of those people. I understand the need to discredit me per our debates but I don't care at all about color. Your posts if you review them share a common theme concerning race. I challenge you to leave race out of your arguments. I have described your words concerning these two incidents clearly. It's there for all to see.

Black girl warned then shot= bad choice by cop
White guy shoots at unknown intruder= should be shot

if you wish to believe an untruth, concerning me as a person, that's your problem. I, as do my friends & associates, know the truth. I wrote I didn't fault the officer that shot the 17yr old girl. I've written, over & over, I question the judgement of the officers with Det. Shivers on the raid. No-knock warrants give officers the right to kick down doors, break through windows, etc., without warning. You seem to be projecting your own, inner beliefs to me & others, with whom you disagree. Just because 1 with personal experience in matters you don't, sees angles within events of these matters, you either refuse to or are incapable of understanding, doesn't mean that person is racist. That's why you need some self examination. You've tried that ploy, too often, for it not to be within you.

"returning fire on a homeowner, or a drunk, attempting to use his keys on a home he mistakes as his own"

I don't know. I quoted you on it. The police at Frederick's home were kicking the door, not fumbling w/ keys. I believe it is a red herring. As for questioning your law enforcement experience, what I question is your critique of the officers who shot the girl. You feel it may have been improper although they warned her, fired tear gas into the home, and then she pointed a gun at them. If pointing a gun at someone doesn't warrant being shot then I don't know what does. As for the racism, I stand by my comments and your prior posts. I did not mean it as an insult but the word has a definition and you fit it well.

sorry I mixed you up with someone else. However, what do you think gives you the right to question my LEO experience? Many people have managed to do more than 1 thing, successfully, in their lifetime. Trying to portray me as a racist is just asinine, crude, improper, & totally incorrect. I question, from a standpoint of expertise, the actions of the dead officer's comrades on that raid. I have been in the position of deciding rather or not to fire, at an armed person, more than once. I have been on no-knock busts, many times. Have you? What type of house key is capable of kicking in a door? I truly wish you a better day.

"How about waiting until you hear all of the facts before you constantly trash the police for doing thier jobs! I hope none of you EVER need my husband to come to your house to help you with anything!"

I have not read many posts since this occured bashing police officers. I have read some where they do not agree w/ laws that are in place. I haverad some where they think the operation was poorply planned. The majority of people have been very respecting and at times reverent for the fallen officer.

First of all pot is not legal. The police were doing their job. Had they not been doing their job you would complain about that as well what is new. Hail to the firefighters, once again the police are bad people of course until you are in need and then they are wonderful people. There is more to this whole situation and what this man was actually doing at his home than what everyone knows at the moment. During the trial we will all hear what we need to hear and for some of you what you do not want to hear about Mr. Weed Grower. I will tell you all this....he was growing it and he was selling it. One question....if a man was living next to you growing pot and selling it, would you want him to continue to live next to you? I think not. The police were only doing what the laws tell them to do its apart of the job. Little FYI for some of you who do not understand what the police do. Go down to your local police dept and sign up for a ride along. you can get a first hand look at what they do everyday and what kind of people they deal with. This man is lucky to be alive. I would have shot him right there as he did the officer! I really hope that Shivers family does not re

2miler, your esponding to things Don said, not me. As for a drunk using the wrong keys...if his key happens to be knocking dowm my door we have an issue.

I am calling you out. Your true colors are shown and the elephant is in the room. You disagree w/ the girl being shot after pointing a gun at the police only because she is black. Your ok w/ Ryan because your conflicted by your supposed LEO background and an officer was shot. It's ok to gun him down because he is white. If the police has fired tear gas into hios home or called Det. Shivers would be alive today.

Your a racist. Period. Anyone who doubts me should review his posts.

Why do you say the warrant was unlawfully obtained?

please, get real. there is no comparison of a burglar,(a criminal, by the way), returning fire on a homeowner, or a drunk, attempting to use his keys on a home he mistakes as his own, with officers of the law, with a no-knock warrant, issued by an impartial judge. A burglar, returning fire at a homeowner, would be committing a 2nd felony. A person, firing through his door, at a drunk, attempting to use his keys to enter what he thinks is his home, is also guilty of a crime. Since the drunk wouldn't be able to open the door with his keys, he would be no threat to the homeowner. The homeowner should call 911.

"Ira, yes, the other officers at the door would have been right to shoot Mr. Frederick, immediately, upon his firing on them."

Would a burglar have been right to return fire when shot at by a homeowner?

How about a drunk who has mistakenly tried to break into a home he mistook for his own?

OK, then, what about police who are serving a warrant unlawfully obtained and recklessly served in a manner that creates the impression on the part of a homeowner that he is the target of a home invasion?

You only have the right to self defense when you are blameless in creating the conflict. When you criminally or recklessly cause someone else to believe their life is in danger, you forfeit your right to answer their efforts to defend themselves.

I believe the officers didn't return fire at Ryan because he was not a visible target to them at the time. Its one of those things responsible gun owners/users make sure of before firing...identify your target. I would think...or at least love to believe...that those commenting about having "prior LEO experience" would know this at the very least.

Not that looking at Ryan in a jail suit isn't suited for this article (I didn't say truth). I just want to say that for 9 months now we have seen the same picture. I like it, I recognize it, but maybe some other shots...just to mix it up a little. Maybe one that shows him BEFORE he was in jail for this debacle.

Thanks in advance if you change it, if not, don't wonder later on why you still work here instead of National Geographic or New York. (No offense to our local paper of course).

Have any of you considerd that the defense attorney could be in on this consiracy? He could be the one holding half the weed!!! Think about it.

When some of you say that the Mr. Frederick was sleeping, is that a fact or just speculation?

IMHO, this man was railroaded and this is the one and ONLY reason that I would want to live in hampton roads again. TO BE ON THIS JURY.

my opinion and no comment will ever change it.

Your trying to back out of your comments. You have been very clear about the fact you do not feel the shooting of the 17 year old girl in Norfolk was wrong. You have commented from the first article. Now you tell us Frederick should have been shot dead. Why don't you tell us what is really bothering you?

At every pre-trial hearing the prosecution reveals more evidence and yet nothing seems serious enough for the warrant to have been served in such a forceful manner. By the detective's own testimony, as soon as they realized Frederick was on his way to answer the door they started busting through. What if they had waited 15 more seconds and let him open the door? We'll never know. If Frederick was waiting for police why didn't he have automatic weapons and open fire as soon as officers arrived? He didn't shoot until after they broke through his door. Without a doubt some false information has been given through the media and blogs online, by the defense and the prosecution. I know several honest, trustworthy officers that I respect but I also know several that are a disgrace to the badge they wear. The case needs to be tried in Chesapeake. If the prosecutor has the strong evidence he claims to have he should be able to sway the public against Frederick.

Of course, I probably couldn't return fire after being hit by shots from a double barreled shotgun, even if I were wearing a bullet proof vest. You actually helped with my point. Just how is it that the other officers didn't immediately return fire, after 2 shots fired by Mr. Frederick put their partner down? Does Chesapeake have training that differs that much from other police departments?

Ira, yes, the other officers at the door would have been right to shoot Mr. Frederick, immediately, upon his firing on them. I wrote I didn't fault the officer that shot the girl & that he did what he felt was necessary. Officers are trained to return fire at a still armed person. I write from personal experience on the matter. From whence do you get your opinion? If it's also personal experience, then we just have a difference of opinion. If not, then what? So, yes I will write it again; Mr. Frederick is blessed to be among the living. The family of the 17yr old child wishes they could say the same.

In 1997, four innocent men, all veterans of the U.S. Navy, were imprisoned for crimes they did not commit. The Norfolk Four were convicted in the brutal rape and murder of Michelle Moore-Bosko in what has been called by many as one of the greatest miscarriages of justice of all time. They confessed to a detective who was suspended from the force in 1990 for coercing a confession out of three teenagers. There was no evidence linking them to the crime. Eleven of the jurors who initially convicted the alleged murderers in the case have stated in affidavits that they now believe the four were innocent. The real killer has been caught and admitted to committing the crime alone plus all the physical evidence points to him. Over 10 years later and they have yet to be pardoned even though it is evident they are innocent. Unfortunately, I don't think Ryan Frederick has a chance. When police break the law, there is no law. And we allow them to get away with it.

Police fire tear gas and have contact w/ 17 year old girl. They then forcefully enter the home and the person is pointing a gun at them. Officer fires. Your Ok because an officer was not shot. I guess if he had stood there and waited to be shot you would be ok w/ it? Or should they have waited for the neighbor on the other side of the wall to be shot?

In the 2nd case a door is kicked in and a man wakes up. He grabs his gun and fires twice accidently killing a cop. He should have been shot on sight.

Thanks for clearing the air.

If someone would've fired at you then you would've fired back immediately? Suppose the person with the double barreled shotgun fired at you first- do you really think you would've been able to return any fire at all? I give you props for your verbal skills and being able to talk your way out of armed person situations but I would rather NOT give anyone holding a weapon in his/her hand and POINTING IT AT ME the miniscule part of a millisecond it takes to pull a trigger!

Dignity has already evaporated! This is becoming a matter of how much will the city 'bleed' from this?! Their history, especially recent history, makes it seem that there's a lot more 'bleeding' to be done from the City of Chesapeake. I'm pleased that it has been decided to incorporate cameras in the courtroom, this case could become legendary on a local to national level.

The assumptions here and everywhere abound and it's a shame how people here are banking on what a person simply "said" in court. The pre-trial verbage is vastly psychological warfare to setup avenues of defense and recoiled attacks; therefore, until the "burden of proof" is shown, I'll hold my tongue. All I ask is a fair trial, here or not, and a mea culpa from the CPD for ANY kind of irregularity that destroyed at least two families. My interactions with the CPD and stories I here from friends who belong to the department mak

different events have similarities. Speaking from experience, the times I had a weapon pointed at me,(ranging from butcher knives to double barreled shotguns, at distances as close as 4 ft.) I not once, fired my weapon. I managed to talk the situation down. I do know, however, if 1 of those persons had fired at me, I would have returned fire immediately, as my weapon was drawn. I'm not faulting the officer that shot the girl. He did what he felt necessary. When we kicked in doors on no-knock warrant busts, we had our weapons drawn, ready to fire. You never knew what awaited you on the other side. That's why I still say, Mr. Frederick's is blessed & that child's family wishes they could say the same.

They weren't knocking on the door like neighbors. They were shouting "police...search warrant" while knocking it down. A witness said they heard no such warnings, you say? Is this the same witness who said there was only two officers on scene when it has been documented that there were over a dozen? Please people...get a life! You take everything you hear from all the news channels (and probably some you just "hearsay") and come out with your own pathetic theories of what really happened. As for the prosecution not giving you every last detail on the case...I say smart thinking on their part. All I hear from posters on here is that "if pot was legal, this wouldn't have happened" or "I would have done the same thing". Please...it was his reckless use of a firearm that brought this about. As for "you would have done it too"...well, maybe so, but you would have found yourself in the same position as Ryan.

Buckets, grow lights, plant food, whatever! I have a hydroponic system in my home. Does that make me a marijuana manufacturer? I've owned several grow books including one on the subject of marajuana. I bought and read it out of curiousity, no other reason. Does that make me a marajuana manufacturer? Virginia Hydroponics has plenty of growing paraphernalia in their store. Does that make they a accomplice to the crime??? The .223 casing fell out of a officer's pocket? Are you kidding me? Just how stupid does this prosecutor think the public is??? Why would a special operations officer going on a mission have an empty casing in his pocket? Was it for good luck? If so, Det. Shiver should have been carrying it (God rest his soul). Where is the evidence of the alleged conversation between Ryan and the key witness. How does anyone know what if any conversation took place? Beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT!!

I dont know what kind of freinds you have but nobody I consider a freind would be breaking my door down in the middle of the night.
Why didnt they just wait for him to walk out the door for work and arrest him?Ill tell you why- they went in there all cowboy style ; breaking down doors etc... to intimidate him , scare him and make him roll over on his freinds. Im sure its worked hundreds of times but this time it went horribly wrong and a police officer lost his life.

WOW if my friends or neighbors came over and kicked my door down to let me know they were there,I would hope they would know they were likely to get themselves shot. Some people must live in really rough neighborhoods.