VIRGINIA BEACH
A thin line exists between civility and inappropriate chumminess. Just ask the general district court judges here, who have warned attorneys to stop patting traffic cops on the back in court.
"It is a little blip," said Gene Woolard, chief judge. "Heck, I've probably done it when I was a defense attorney."
A couple of months ago, the judges said they noticed that a few lawyers were getting too friendly with police officers in traffic court. An attorney patting an officer on the back in court, they said, might leave some asking, what gives?
"It is not necessarily the reality, but the impression," Woolard said.
Several "high volume" police officers said the recognition made them uncomfortable, according to a report in the Virginia Beach Bar Association's August newsletter.
It became one of several issues judges discussed with a Beach Bar committee over the summer. The judges also said telling them that a client is a relative, member of their firm's staff, spouse or neighbor might be perceived as a plea for favoritism. The bench asked that it stop, too.
"People know each other," Woolard said. "However, if you are sitting in the audience, you could get the impression that there is a good-old-boy system."
The judges did not issue an order for formality. Attorneys have been policing themselves.
"We worked this one out peacefully," Woolard said.
Robert Morecock, a lawyer who shuttles among courtrooms, believes some fraternization is "inappropriate."
"I say thank you to the officers," he said. "I don't think that is in the same league as rubbing an officer's shoulder. My take is that much of what we do is perceived by the public in ways that we might not understand or appreciate."
Duane Bourne, (757) 222-5150, duane.bourne@pilotonline.com
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A little patting never hurt anyone......
Wow......the judicial system in Virginia Beach falling apart by a friendly pat on the back! Give me a break......now a good "Slap" on the back....thats the "Good-Ol-Boy System".
co-workers too
The police, attorneys and court officers are co-workers just like you and your co-workers. They see and work with each other very often. I can tell you from personal experience that their comroderie (sp) ends with the calling of their cases. Then it becomes prosecution against the defense and leave it to the judge or jury to figure it out. It's funny to read the posts from people who won cases due to "pats on the back" complaining about the system. Not every case requires the "letter of the law" prosecution. The relationships the court officers have are a good thing. I support what another poster said in ref to staying out of court period and you don't have to worry about anything!
Sounds Like Another Attack On Freedom!
These officers and attorneys and judges see each other everyday of every week. They have their own repore that the average citizen does not have access to, nor is any of their business. Yes, you can get into enough trouble, and hire a lawyer who will attempt to "buy down" your fine or jail time at your expense. Yes, you can submit that bill for speedometer recalibration on your 2009 Mercedes in the hope of getting out of a speeding ticket. Wouldn't we all be better off obeying all the laws all of the time? Who will lose a child to violent crime because a police officer was tied up with a careless motorist?
lifeontheverge - think again
You got it backwards..the goal and reason for law enforcement and the judicial system is punishment, not rehabilitation. Thats why they call it the "Penal System" meaning "punishment". One reason for the failure of the the country's prison systems is that people like you have been duped into believing that when we put criminals in prison, the Gov't is supposed to rehabilitate them and then let them out..not so. They are there to punish them for the crime they were found guilty of commiting, nothing more. IF they learn anything from the experience, great; if not, we will see them again, unfortunately. Next time, they may stay longer. Prison is for punishment, counselors and social programs are for rehabilition and the two should not mix at the same time.
Heh
The people with real juice never actually have to go to court. The matters are settled beforehand.
Here is a solution
Don't do the crime, don't do the time. Easy solution.
What Justice Co$t$
The legal profession has one problem-LAWYERS. Lawyers who hire themselves out and lawyers who are called "judges", both of whom would rather that the laymen like you and me stay out of their little club-just as long as we surrender our money to support it. Fines, court costs and lawyers fees while using the police as their "collection agents" assure that those who thrive on conflict will stay in business. It's not about justice, rehabilitation, safety or any other noble reason-it's about taking money from one group to support another. Call it an additional motorist tax and the recepiants of this welfare all went to law school. It's strange isn't it? Laymen like most folks aren't invited to have any say in citizen oversight of the Beach Police, Citizens like you and me would never have any input into disiplinary hearings regarding the misconduct of lawyers, but we can be found in c
It's a process.
Justice is NOT 'Justice' per se. It's just a process you get to pay for and play along with. Showing up in Court without a Lawyer is a slap in the face to the 'System' ! YOU are not playing right and throwing money into their pockets is all it is and you WILL be punished. Punished not for whatever you did, (Or didn't do) but failure to play/PAY homage to the cops, lawyers, judges, jail,/ 'The System'.
It is certainly a 'Good ol' Boys' Club and it won't change.
Try Maryland Justice. It's worse.
What a joke!!!!
Ever since I can remember Virginia Beach has always had the good ole boy network going on in the court systems. Tell me how a man with illegal guns and drugs gets off just because he had a so called high profile lawyer, sitting in court and watching the judge smooze with the attorneys and police is what is a real joke!!!!!!!!!!!!
What a joke
The judge really needs to focus on hearing matters fairly in his court and stop caring whether or not police officers and attorneys are polite to one another.
And my guess is that your average cop who was "uncomfortable" about getting a pat on the back would let the lawyer know in no uncertain terms.
Not that I would be that cynical, but this judge's name sounded familiar...he was the second pick for the vacant circuit court judgeship in Virginia Beach. Maybe he is trying to make a name for himself to push himself to number 1 next time.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/08/wheels-justice-grind-slower-over-shortage-judges
Cops & Robbers
Judges figure if you've already spent the bucks on an attorney - maybe you've started to learn your lesson - so naturally the sentence will reflect the price you've already paid. The initial goal of law enforcement and the judicial system is rehabilitation not punishment. Funny how so many people cry about the one time they get caught and forget about the dozens or even hundreds of times they didn't. Just pay your fine, do your time and thank God you don't get caught as often as you could or should. Oh, and thank the nice officer for doing a job most people run from.
Fact of life
Just another fact of life...same as one law enforcement officer will not give another law enforcement officer a ticket for speeding, etc.
What about judges
Talk about the DA's and the cops, how about the judges being biased when it comes to an officers word or the defendents words even if the officers evidence doesn't support anything he says!!! Talk about justice in Va.Beach, there is none when your up against the good ole boy system with the judges and police. Doesn't matter if you're innocent because your guilty from the get go before you get in front of the judge. So, if you get into trouble with the laws in Va. Beach, your guilty anyways. Especially when the lawyers are afraid to take your case if it's in Va. Beach. There is no true justice in Va. Beach. Just stay out of that area!!!!
Hmp
A trooper gave me two tickets in a row for speeding, 30 seconds apart (Driving a Ford Tempo). I know the reason why, but it doesn't matter. Hired a lawyer, and also filed a complaint. Lawyer said filing a complaint was a bad move, since it hurt his ability to go to the trooper and get the charges reduced. So much for justice! It *is* a good ol' boy network.
The Pat on the Back Doesn't Bother Me...
..it's when I feel their hand go in my back pocket that really worries me!
Really?
Is it that bad? The police and the attorneys are officers of the court, but are they supposed to act as if they do not know one another? Seems a little nitpicky to me. I look forward to reading the article tomorrow...
Patting
Let's also hope they don't resort to patting each other on the butt like some sports figures do.
High Volume?
Just what is a "High Volume" police officer and why should a pat on the back make them uncomfortable? Perhaps the tickets they are writing are on thin ice or they delight in subjecting citizens to their brand of law enforcement. Instead of warning the lawyers perhaps these "high volume" officers should be investigated for their actions.
Just Get Hooker
All your problems will magically dissapear. You don't have to know the police officer to get out of a ticket, just spend a couple grand for Hooker to take care of it. 2 dui's dropped, Running from the police dropped. Any questions?
perception is reality
"However, if you are sitting in the audience you could get the impression that there is a good old boy system."
Go spend a morning in traffic court. The lawyers and cops are on a first-name basis. Overwhelmingly, defendants with lawyers get charges reduced or dismissed. Overwhelmingly, defendants without lawyers are found guilty.
I got a ticket in a local town last year. It was a big deal so I hired a local lawyer. He reviewed my case and told me he'd discuss it with 'Joe'. Turns out that Joe was the trooper that wrote the ticket. Guess what? Charges dropped, case dismissed.