NORFOLK
Democrat Barack Obama’s appearance at Granby High School on Wednesday was one of two Virginia events this week that prompted questions about whether campaigning politicians should be allowed to speak at public schools during classroom hours.
Obama’s Republican rivals, John McCain and running mate Sarah Palin, moved a Wednesday rally planned for Fairfax High School after the school division received complaints. The rally violated a school system policy barring campaign activities during the school day.
McCain’s campaign said in a statement that the reason for the rally’s relocation was to accommodate high interest.
On Tuesday, a speaker before a Norfolk City Council meeting objected to Obama’s Granby event. “This shouldn’t be happening,” Chuck Brewer said.
Monte Lloyd Mercer, president of the Education Association of Norfolk, said the Illinois senator’s visit was good for students, however. “It’s still a wonderful opportunity for them to say they attend a school system that hosted a presidential candidate,” she said.
Norfolk administrators said Obama’s Wednesday events didn’t violate School Board policy. The candidate briefly visited a classroom and held a discussion before the media and an invitation-only audience of about 150 parents, educators and other leaders. Only a handful of students were selected to attend.
“What it was pitched to us as was an opportunity to inform a political official about our opinions on public education,” Michael Spencer, the division’s chief operations officer, said. “Once you put someone behind the microphone, you can’t dictate what they’re going to say.”
Laws governing use of school property don’t appear to give strict guidelines for such events, said Kent Willis, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia. Public schools are free to host speakers with differing moral or social viewpoints for educational purposes, and political figures often appear at schools, he said.
Officials also might allow outside organizations to use school facilities as long as the same rules apply to everyone. If no students are attending the event, it doesn’t matter whether it takes place during classroom hours, Willis said.
“If Obama calls and says, 'I would like to use your school,’ and they treat Obama the same as anyone else, they’re okay,” he said.
Generally, local school divisions have policies prohibiting the distribution of campaign materials on campuses and relegating political involvement of employees to time outside work and schools.
Few directly address political activities on campus during the school day, as the Fairfax County school division does.
A Norfolk School Board policy states that “the equipment of the Norfolk Public Schools shall not be used to advance the cause of an individual political candidate and/or party.”
Portsmouth officials said the school division prohibits visits from campaigning politicians. Suffolk Superintendent Milton Liverman said it’s generally discouraged there, but he might consider access to a presidential candidate in this historic election for students who want the opportunity and have parental permission.
Chesapeake permits candidates to speak at schools about topics other than their campaigns, said Tom Cupitt, a division spokesman. Timothy M. Kaine and Jerry Kilgore visited some Chesapeake middle schools when they were running against each other in 2005 for governor, he said.
Last month, Obama appeared at an evening rally at Chesapeake’s Oscar Smith High School.
The Virginia Beach division hasn’t waived its policy against political activities during school hours since it permitted a Cox High School appearance by McCain during his 2000 presidential bid, said Kathleen O’Hara, a spokeswoman.
“(T)hen Superintendent Tim Jenney decided that it was a history lesson in the making for students to get to interact with an individual seeking the Presidential nomination,” O’Hara said in an e-mail message.
“However,” O’Hara continued, “resulting media coverage and public interest made this a difficult event to manage logistically.”
During that appearance before 2,500 people, McCain famously accused religious broadcaster Pat Robertson and the Rev. Jerry Falwell of Lynchburg of being “agents of intolerance.”
Granby was chosen because Obama planned to speak about education , said campaign spokeswoman Ashley Etienne.
Tom Bunnell, campaign director for the Republican Party of Virginia, said he tries to avoid events at schools during school hours unless a candidate is invited, because it could be disruptive for students.
Spencer, Norfolk’s chief operations officer, said the McCain campaign is welcome to hold an event like Obama’s in Norfolk schools.
“It would be exciting if John McCain and Senator Obama called and said we want to sit on the Granby stage and have a debate on political issues in front of the Granby student body,” Spencer said. “We’d make sure it’s a bipartisan event.”
Researchers Maureen Watts and Jakon Hays and Pilot writers Dale Eisman, Harry Minium and Hattie Brown Garrow contributed to this report.
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I
guess all you guys insisting NPS violated it's policy are better at interpreting the law than attorneys who already review the matter & stated there was no violation. Hang your shingles & earn some money.
I know
"If this type event were a violation of Norfolk policy,"
If anyone actually rad the paper this mornign you would know it is not Portsmouth's policy to have council members abstain from voting on a hotel they invested in. Just because it is allowed certainly does not make it right.
But you should know this.
And as final proof...
Their own division cheif all but says they were in the wrong:
"“What it was pitched to us as was an opportunity to inform a political official about our opinions on public education,” Michael Spencer, the division’s chief operations officer, said. “Once you put someone behind the microphone, you can’t dictate what they’re going to say.”"
He's stating the exact thing I'm stating. That had he just been there to talk about his life or for what he was really supposed to be there for, WHAT THE SCHOOLS wanted to say to him, that would have been one thing.
He turned it into a campaign speech thus the comment which seals the deal that it is in violation:
“Once you put someone behind the microphone, you can’t dictate what they’re going to say.” actually, they could have, by following the policy to begin with...
Wrong Again Two Miller...
They extended the invite to McCain because they knew they screwed up. Period. The policy in Norfolk is clear, you can not use school equipment to further ANY political agenda. Period.
"the equipment of the Norfolk Public Schools shall not be used to advance the cause of an individual political candidate and/or party."
And yes, he used school equipment. If Fairfax has a policy about peaceful assembly on city property then McCain was wrong as well. I do not think there is but the burden of proof falls on you. The burden of proof for BO and more to the point, the Norfolk School Board, has already been met, with their own words, their own policy.
Had BO talked about his boy hood, how his mother shaped his life, his struggles in life, that's one thing. But he spent 95% of his time campaigning, this is """Advancing the cause of an individual""". Period
Reread
the article & policy of Norfolk. The event with Obama, didn't violate Norfolk policy, period. It would have violated policies of other Va. cities, such as Portsmouth & Fairfax. If this type event were a violation of Norfolk policy, the same people wouldn't have extended an invitation to McCain to come, if he wished, at a later date.
Well
According to the prosecutor of the Frederick case we can actually sway 100's of thousands of people in this little blog. Why not discuss a misuse of goverment property and funds here?
Are you controlling the subject now?
I disagree with the whole thing
Obama went to the school to talk about his plan for educators if he were to win the presidency and also to talk about getting students prepaired for the 21st century education. How is this not promoting himself? While there he totally disrupted the whole freshman academy, they had to hold their classes in the auditorium all day. The students could only use specified stairways to get to places in the school while he was there. The people who attended were hand selected teachers, parents and MAYBE 2-3 handfulls of students. NO streaming media was allowed in the classrooms where the other students were. At least if there were streaming video this could have been a historical event for everyone in the school not just a hand selected few. Go ahead Obama, go to a school, disrupt the entire student body, staff, faculty and preach about education. What a freaking joke. I guess he couldn't handle an open forum. This should NOT have been held at Granby HS unless it was open to all students, faculty and staff and McCain was also given the same opportunity.
who is to blame for obama at granby HS?
As I recall this went through Norfolk City Council. If you have a problem with Obama speaking at Granby, aren't they the ones you should be talking/complaining to?
Well Twomiller...
say that everything was on the up and up and they used rental equipment or equipment that belong to them, it still does not negate the fact that they violated policy. Easy as that.
As to the rest of your argument, well depending on the park and locality they may have to apply for a permit to hold a rally. If they don't have to then it would not be against stated policy.
Thus, this is the entire point of the argument. If there is a policy in place does that policy need to be enforced? I say yes. No matter the person. He didn't go there to just give a speech, he went there to campaign.
As I've stated numerous times, I have no problem as long as they are playing within the guidelines of law/policy. No matter the message, no matter the party. And for the record, I'm an independent that voted for Dems as well as Repubs...
Republicans are just jealous.
McCain had no interest in coming to Granby. If he comes it will probably be to a military installation.
Obama = education
McCain = perpetual war
My
comment was in response to a post by mikedlong. He asked if Obama used the schools mics, etc. I saw your post. My reference to audio & video equipment wasn't a response. Have a good 1.
it's good to see parents
finally interested in their kids education. We don't see that very often! It's amazing that a Democrat Presidential candidate can unite so many.
Say what??
Twomiler, all I can say about your last post is, “Huh??”. First, what does the quality of sound/video equipment have to do with anything? Who even said the equipment used belonged to either the school or Obama’s camp, or if it was even rented locally? Second, how do you equate those people put out from a park versus students denied several hours or days of education? Last time I checked, children aren’t required to attend a park, nor is a park a routine place of education.
I wasn’t finding fault with Obama directly – rather with any politician that disrupts a school to further their political career (remember, the first 5-7 mins of his speech was, in his own words, about his run for President, the economy, war, healthcare, etc.).
Does anyone
really think a Presidential campaign, which has millions of dollars at hand, & is followed by local, national & international news agencies, doesn't have access to better sound & video systems, than what would be in a high school"? Fairfax & Norfolk have different policies on use of public schools. McCain would be welcome in Norfolk schools, just as Obama was. Obama would be denied an event at a public school in Fairfax, just as McCain was. McCain's event was in a public park. How many people who regularly use the park, were inconvenienced? Some people, will try to find fault in what ever is done; when they so vehemently oppose an individual. Wouldn't suprise me, if some would refuse Obama's hand to help, if he was the only person near by to keep them from falling off a cliff.
no siree
No one bullied you. You said you wanted to know how many students were seperated or had their days disrupted by the visit. I pointed out it did not matter. Candidates do not belong making stump speeches in schools(any party). Some of us are curious about learning new facts about the candidates but this particular thread is about the school visit. Your partisanship is distracting. I am simply asking for a break from the raving letters and for you to offer something substantial to the conversation. Any, I have to run. The editors do not like these direct conversations amongst posters.
Education?
Obama appeared at a school to tout his platform on education. Seems rather contradictory since the entire school was disrupted, thereby denying hours - if not days - of education. The "learning center" was closed off so a stage could be erected, lights installed, and sound systems put in place. A very large majority of the student body was blocked from the learning center during Obama's speech. The Daily Press had an interesting picture that showed dozens of students and adults (teachers?) literally behind a secure gate in a hallway. Some may say they were "sequestered". I say they were barred. It may sound like I’m attacking Obama, but I’d say that about ANY politician.
Gertz??? Have you actually been reading the articals???
They bussed in kids from other schools. Not everyone from the school could be in that auditorium. From 9-11-08 Pilot:
"Ahmed Lee's morning bus was packed Wednesday. Students who didn't normally go to school were showing up, he said."
Also from the same paper the same day:
"Admission to the speech was invitation-only. The audience consisted of parents, teachers, students and local officials. Most of the invitations were given out by the school division, a campaign aide said."
Sounds like party plants to me....
So a packed house, invite only would only mean one thing. Not everyone got to go. And hence, if you were at school that day and did not get a special invite you were not there and had to so something else.
So Obama got a house full of people who are backing him anyway (just like people accuse John McCain of only preaching to the choir) and did not give the kids an oppertunity to ask the questions they had prepared. I wonder why???
my opinions
My opinions are just that mine. I did not make my decision to support Obama litely. As a matter of fact it was very difficult, but since I have I know each day I made the right decision. You choose your candidate based on your opinion, and please allow the rest of us to do the same. As far as rants, well, it's an election year and we are all passionate about our decisions/opinions. As leat I've stated my reasons, while other have just tried to use "bully" tactics to tell us how wrong we are. That might work on some people, but it certaily won't on me.
Where did he go to? Oh, he's
Where did he go to? Oh, he's over there hiding from direct questioning when confronted w/ facts. let's stick to the subject at hand for now. Enough ranting. There is plenty of time for me to constantly repeat myself in the future.
I am calling you out on your partisanship gertz. Your interest is not "we the people" but for you to advance your poorly chosen direction. Regardless of how I feel about Obama I respect your right to pick your leader. If you must continue to post let's keep it substantial.
about those issus?????
Funny how we never head any reasons why you support McCain/Palin. Instead you constantly ask people to comment on why they supposrt Obama which I have done several times. But your motive is to blast them about their opinions. Let's hear some of yours for a change.
Invite McCain?
That's not the point. Inviting any candidate is wrong IF IT interferes w/ the educational experience. If even one student missed classes to accomodate a campaign stump, this is wroing. In addition, if the candidate came to the school to actually teach something that would be different. Our children learned nothing by hearing a campaign speech. Of course as other posters have stated, the issue of federal funding and religion in schools spells out that this is improper. It does not bother(from reading them) most of the posters that Obama came to the school, but the fact he used the school as a campaign tool.
Your argument does not seem to address the issue by suggesting we invite McCain to sort of even the odds. You must remember Gertz that many posters on these boards are concerned w/ the actual issue and not just promoting their candidate or party.
how many students
How many students were sequested? All? Half? 1/3? 30 or 40? Can we have an honest report of what you are talking about when you say your child was sequested?
Independence of local school districts
Here's a place we R's need to be consistent. We speak of *not* building huge national bureaucracies to control every school in America with a "one size fits all" handbook. It appears that Fairfax County and Norfolk Public Schools have *different* rules for political candidates on campus. Well, hallelujah, isn't that a demonstration of the thing we desire in progress? As long as they are consistent in Fairfax (no candidates) and in Norfolk (all candidates), we can't really complain just because our ox seemed to get gored yesterday. Do we really want to have the federal Department of Education wasting taxpayers' dollars dictating to every school in America how to host or not host political visits??? Cheers, MGM
Obama Visit
I would have been very excited to have the chance to hear a presidential candidate speak at my high school. I do have a few issues here though...
1. They only chose a few students. Probably the best and brightest students. This means the kids who actually saw Obama speak were probably headed down the path of political awareness and they are more likely to vote anyway.
2. In one photo of the event, they were setting up a stage. If it is not a campaign stop, but more of a discussion, then why would they put up a stage?
3. They sequestered the rest of the students and had them watch movies all day? Why not have the "discussion" in the auditorium where all the excluded kids could watch? He would not have had to bring in a stage!
Lipstick
You can put lipstick on an act against city policy but what you still have is a pig... errrr, I mean what you still have is an act against the policy...
"my freshman was sequestered
"my freshman was sequestered in the auditorium for all but one class and did nothing but watch Indiana Jones and High School Musical!!!
If I had known, I would have had her stay home yesterday".
I agree! That is just wrong. I think that kids should never watch videos in school and especially if it is because of visiting politicians. AND I am a Democrat......
Few Students Were Included
I have two children at Granby, a senior and a freshman.
I think it would have been nice for them to hear Obama or McCain speak however, my freshman was sequestered in the auditorium for all but one class and did nothing but watch Indiana Jones and High School Musical!!!
If I had known, I would have had her stay home yesterday.
Phrong has a great idea
"Okay, no problem. With that statement we can now bring in people to teach creationism as well. That is a blazing endorsement from the ACLU. Let’s face it, creationism is a moral and social viewpoint and can certainly educate people."
All in due time my friend, all in due time. Children should be taught a variety of subjects including presidential campaigning. There may have been an inspiring politician at that Obama speech.
In American, anything is possible!
one
of our fellow posters actually used more than 2 words, although he still wrote nothing new. Perhaps we're witnessing the beginning of a breakthrough. Will we be able to look to this person offering a complete point of view, conveyed with reason? We, can only wish.
To the people saying it is
To the people saying it is good for a politician to visit a school, yes you are right. Where Obama crossed the line was he was campaining at the school. His education part of his speech was what 5 seconds of his speech.