It's in print. You can see for yourselves who is offering 'substance.'

but no substance.

While we all appreciate your empty one liners you lack and substance. While this is a common ailment of the Obamaite, I am going to need some proof. I have some that says you support what in your own words would brandish someone a "baby killer."

I wonder what part of the platform was worth trading off for your extreme views about abortion?

to explain that he does not know what he is talking about.

"It's a problem that goes around in circles with everyone shouting about their 'rights' as parents and so on."

Yes, that is right. IT is my RIGHT to make decisions for my child.

Loud and clear folks. Multiple Obama supporters on this site have expressed they support limiting a parents right to be informed of a medical procedure for their child. Review the record. There is no spin here from my side. Read for yourself.

Obama is a CO-SPONSOR of this legislation.

. . . seeking an abortion is very difficult, I agree, Ira.

When young children are abused they seldom feel that they can tell their parents. Oh, I know, I know - all parents think they are enlightened enough to have instilled the notion in their children that they can tell us anything. Truth be told, however, If a young child, even a teen, is abused by someone well known and respected by the family, it only makes it more difficult for a child to make such an accusation against the 'adult'.

Now if a child does become pregnant, unless the child can feel sure that her parents will believe her and take her side, they more than likely will not share any of it with a parent, and enstead tell another adult. But, here is the problem - only a parent would be able to sign for a legal abortion for the child. We have seen how some right wing nuts force under-aged children to have the baby. There was a very well-documented case of such not too long ago. I think time ran out for the abortion and the teen was forced to have the baby.

It's a problem that goes around in circles with everyone shouting about their 'rights' as parents and so on. Everyone becomes the loser, not just the pre

let me say this very slowly for you. I understand my words but it appears I misunderstood what your point was. looking back I THINK you may be infering that McCain and Palin are you enemy due to the abortion issue? I thought you were talking about troops as the prior is absurd. You do understand that Obama is pro-choice? He is actually the co-sponsor of a bill to allow those who are not adults to undergo abortions w/o telling their parents?

Regardless of how you vote abortions will be available. Roe vs. Wade is meaningless in todays world. However, per your own words, you support the person who wants children to have access to this procedure w/o their parents involvement.

A very odd view.

I quoted your own words exactly and you claim you don't know what I am talking about.

"Had she turned up pregnant, it sounds like some of you are saying an abortion wouldn't have been in order."

I never said that. I am stating that it is beyond wrong for a minor to under a doctors care for ANY PROCEDURE w/o the parents being involved. I am not anti abortion. I am anti ANYONE telling me I have no rights as a parent to my childs well being. I again will state that the buck stops w/ me until these kids are on their own. I am responsible and I call the shots. No politician will dictate what happens to my minor children.

Keith, I don't know what you are talking about and I don't think you do either. You are against abortion but for Obama who wants minors to have one w/o telling their parents. Markowitz by his words(see below) is ok w/ a 12 year old running off to the clinic. You need to call a huddle w/ your team.

Now you want to run off on tangents. Quit flip flopping. Show us all the indignation that the supposed pro-lifers made over killing a living baby against the mother's wishes.

Prove it.

I'm done playing your game.

Prove it.

Pro-lifers don't mind killing babies against the mother's wishes when they become inconvenient.

Keith-your initial comment to inflame this on going discussion is based upon half-truths.

Let's not read into things, nor, run off on tangents.

We each have our tenets, beliefs, etc. We should not, and must not, impose them on society.

What are you talking about?

... The world is a far less than ideal place." situations arise in many shades of grey

I remember being 10 years old in the late 50's and spending the night with a girl friend who's uncle was in town and staying at my friend's house. Early in the morning the uncle had explicit photos of men and women to show us. I got wigged out and headed home very early.

My friend told me later about situations involving her uncle that amounted to serious sexual child abuse. I was only 10 and she was 11. She was too scared to tell her parents and I would never had told mine.

Had she turned up pregnant, it sounds like some of you are saying an abortion wouldn't have been in order. That's too stupid for words. Legal abortions weren't even around back then, but today TRUST ME, similar situations play out everyday in bad homes and in the best of homes. CHOICE IS A MUST, and only an idiot would suggest making a child carry to term a child conceieved under such circumstances.

Keith, as adults, they volunteered to fight. The downside to fighting is dying.

Markowitz: A child cannot legally be seen by a doctor w/o a parents permission. To this day I have a major scar from surfing because an emergency room refused to stitch me w/o my parents signature. I had insurance(CHAMPUS). Regardless, ANYTHING under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE that occurs w/ my minor child is MY CHOICE and not theirs.

There is no masking Mr. Markowitzs intended meaning. He supports Obama in the idea that a minor should not need a parents permission for a medical procedure. He advocates reducing our rights. He does this knowing we are legally responsible for their actions. He does this knowing they cannot even sign their own names at that age w/ any legal meaning.

Where will you stand as a parent come November? *It should be noted I am pro-choice for adults* Mcain has no chance of removing Roe vs. Wade. It is a myth.

Ira, if you're referring to your child's (of child-bearing age)right to end an unwanted pregnancy without parental interference, there's a good reason for that. The world is a far less than ideal place. The pregnancy may be a result of incest or rape. The child may fear for her life from violent retribution and finally, the child may know it's not ready or able to parent. Taking away that choice results in suicide and botched illegal attempts to end pregnancy as well as in unwanted children. As for access to other medical services, many lack access due to lack of insurance. I doubt that either candidate will fully address that but Obama's plan is slightly better.

The party of Bush/McCain/Palin has shown a willingness to kill children against the parent's wishes. How much control do parents have when the gov't is willing to bring down the full legal power against the family?

Obama also supports those of us who are parents to not be notified when our 'babies' have an operation that could kill them. While I am pro-choice, my kids have NO CHOICES but mone until they are out of my home and living as adults. Many of you who jump behind this man have also advocated punishing parents when they do not control their children. Now you want to remove that control from me?

Another good reason to support Obama. He'll keep big government from dictating women's most intimate life decisions.