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Virginia's hunting-dog law finds itself in the cross hairs

Posted to: News Outdoors Virginia

John Morse eased his pickup down a lumpy fire road that squeezed deep into a thicket of rural Chesapeake woods.

In a holding box in the truck bed, five of his hounds were going nuts as he stopped briefly to talk to a couple of camo-clad friends.

On this unseasonably warm fall morning, Morse and several members of Jim's Hunt Club were about to take part in a Southern tradition that has been passed on to them by generations of hunters - using dogs to flush out and chase deer and other game.

It's a heritage that faces growing criticism from property owners who say a Virginia law - the only one of its type in the country - is allowing unwanted hunters and dogs to intrude onto their lands. Hunters worry that people are trying to do away with their sport.

At a highly anticipated meeting on Thursday in Richmond, the results of a yearlong study on the conflict will be presented to the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries' Board of Commissioners.

But Morse and his buddies didn't have time to worry about any of that as they prepared for a morning hunt. Morse backed into a narrow cut in the tree line, got out of the cab and called on the radio.

"Time?" he asked several other club members who had positioned their hounds strategically throughout a large parcel of woods, farmland and bog. "OK, then."

Morse opened the dog box doors and let out his beagles.

The dogs howled their approval as they darted into the woods.

Hot on their tails, Morse shouted frantically, hoping to jump a few deer.

The dogs disappeared into the thicket, noses to the ground, searching for scent of the quarry.

As the tone of their barking abruptly turned urgent, the radios lit up with chatter.

"They're on one," a hunter said. "Get ready, boys."

 

Landowners, many of them hunters, say the time has come for Virginia to do away with its unique, decades-old "right-to-retrieve" law, which says hunters have the right to go on prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs. They can't carry firearms or bows and arrows or hunt any game while searching for their dogs.

The newly formed Virginians for Hound Hunting Reform has vowed to take the issue before the General Assembly, where several bills to rewrite the law have failed in the past.

Individuals already have gone to court because of unwanted hunters and dogs on their land. In 2001, Jeff McDermott of Gloucester argued for and received an injunction against a Middle Peninsula hunt club. Curt Lytle of Zuni has a similar case pending in Isle of Wight County.

Ben Jones of Crewe in Nottoway County even sent a bill to the game department, charging it for use of his land. He argued that the right-to-retrieve law makes his land public domain. The department has refused to pay.

Because of Jones' argument, former Rappahannock County lawyer Joel Polin has said he thinks the right-to-retrieve law is unconstitutional.

Lytle - a professional bass fisherman and avid bow hunter - said he has no problem with hound hunting, except for cases such as the afternoon last year when, he said, a pack of dogs ran onto his land and scared his two young daughters.

Lytle said he just wants to be left alone so that his family can enjoy the wildlife retreat he has built on 100-plus acres.

"It makes no sense to me at all that I don't have the right to keep people off my land," he said.

 

Hunting with hounds for deer, fox, raccoon, bear and birds has been around for thousands of years.

But as more people have moved into rural landscapes over the past decade, leased or owned land available for hunting has shrunk. Landowners and hunters have clashed more and more.

In many Southern states - Florida, Georgia and South Carolina among them - game agencies have initiated strict rules governing the use of hounds to hunt deer, enforced with stiff penalties for violations. North Carolina game officials are considering regulations.

Virginia also is addressing the issue.

But things are different in the commonwealth because of its right-to-retrieve law.

The law became enough of a hot-button topic last year that the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries initiated a study - "Hunting with Hounds in Virginia: A Way Forward" - to try to find solutions to mounting complaints.

Bob Duncan, executive director of the game department, said that increasing problems prompted the study, an effort to keep the issue from being settled in the General Assembly.

"We wanted to be proactive," Duncan said. "We didn't want to just adopt things done in other states.

"We want solutions that will work in Virginia. We want solutions that hopefully will make all sides happy. And we want to do everything we can to preserve the tradition of hound hunting."

The game department contracted facilitators from Virginia Tech, and a team of interested parties has hammered out of list of proposals. Those ideas will be presented to the game department's Board of Commissioners in Richmond on Thursday. Department officials emphasize that no laws or rules will come out of Thursday's presentation.

The board will either accept or reject the proposals. If it accepts them, it will tell game officials how and when to start implementing them.

 

Hunters say they are worried that the study marks the beginning of the end for hound hunting. Most of them charge that it has done little more than throw gas on the fire.

"The whole project is a true mess," said Bob Kane, president of the Virginia Hunting Dog Owner's Association. "Hunters understand that there are people who have been taking advantage of RTR, trespassing and hunting where they don't belong," he said, using the acronym for right-to-retrieve. "We all know this is a case of a few bad apples spoiling the barrel.

"But all of this could have been fixed without this big study. It's been a big waste of everybody's time."

Morse and other hunters have mobilized for the fight, forming the 31,000-member Virginia Hunting Dog Alliance.

One of the alliance's goals is public relations.

"We're all being lumped in with the very few bad hunters and clubs who don't respect other people," said Morse, a member of the group's board. "Every group out there has its bad apples. We all feel like they are trying to take our sport away from us because of the very few we have."

Morse said a big part of the problem is that newcomers don't understand the rural way of life. Most outside of the sport know little about the intricate role that hunters and clubs play in the communities in which they hunt, he said.

"Twenty-three counties have issued proclamations rejecting the game department's study," Morse said. "These counties emphasized the potential cultural and economic impacts of restricting the use of hounds to hunt deer."

He rattled off a list of ways that, he said, hunters and their clubs benefit communities and economics. Clubs routinely provide for families in the community and contribute thousands of pounds of venison to Hunters for the Hungry, a statewide program that distributes meat to needy families.

"We buy gas, ammunition, clothing, licenses, food and expensive tracking collars for the dogs," said Morse, who has 10 dogs. "We try to be good stewards in the community.

"But you don't ever hear anybody talking about all of those things."

Morse said that every club he is familiar with strives to have a good relationship with landowners who live adjacent to or near the property where they hunt.

"We have people assigned on each hunt to work the dogs and do everything we can to keep them in bounds," he said. "Most clubs do everything they can to stay away from where we're not wanted."

And in a state with nearly 1 million deer, hound hunters play an important role in keeping the population in check.

"Hunters take about 230,000 deer every year," said Rick Busch, chairman of the study's technical committee and the assistant director of the game department's wildlife division. "Many of those deer are taken by hound hunters. Without what they do, the state would quickly be overrun with deer."

 

In the distance, the sound of gunfire echoed off the tree line. For one of the members of Jim's Hunt Club, the morning was a success.

But for Morse, it was more about the dogs than the kill.

"I got a big 10-pointer one day when the dogs really didn't run much," he said. "I really didn't think that day was a very good hunt because the dogs didn't do their thing. Yeah, I got a big buck, but it just wasn't as rewarding."

It wasn't long before the hounds were howling again, bringing a smile to Morse. They'd jumped another deer and were chasing it.

"There is a feel to this that is spiritual," said Morse, starting to choke with emotion. "For me, hearing the dogs running, that right there is what it's all about. If the dogs don't run, to me, we've had a sorry hunt.

"If I never pick up a gun again, or shoot another deer, seeing and hearing the dogs run is enough.

"I love this sport. That's how important it is in our lives."

Lee Tolliver, (757) 222-5844, lee.tolliver@pilotonline.com

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hound hunting for deer

I myself have no problem with dog hunting for deer i grew up hunting with dogs but for the past 7 yrs our club decided to start managing our deer herd and only take does and mature bucks the biggest issues i have is the "fox chase " season , in which is basically a legal season to let hounds loose most of the year running through everyones property to supposedly chase "fox" we pay a good amount of money to lease our property not even counting the man hours we put in just to allow hounds chase "fox" whenever a hound owner feels the need to chase "fox" like i said i have no problems with dog hunting for deer ... in the "deer season" its when it interferes with mine and fellow hunters that still hunt .dgif needs to end "fox" chase season

hound hunting for deer

i believe that they should not ever stop hound hunting because it has been a way of life and a way of getting outdoors and letting the hounds do what they do best and have for 1000's of years. just because the country is getting old, its age-old traditions do not have to also.
For all the people that think that all the hound hunters hurt thier dogs is a complete lie, many of the hound hunters love thier dogs more than anything. some dogs even eat better than most people. I personally like to deer hunt with hounds as a way to demonstate our ancestors way of getting food, and i don't just kill them to let the dogs run them.

dogs

I agree with you 100% benM I am an avid hunter myself and do not need to use dogs as I have skills in the woods. Something needs to be done soon or their going to ruin it for the rest of us.

dogsatlargelaw@gmail.com

I have started a petition in an effort to change the law. An overwhelming amount have been happy to sign it. With the majority thanking me for doing it. Since the county is so large however, I will not be able to cover every house that may want to have their signature and address added to the list. For this purpose, I have set up an e-mail address where I may be contacted if they would like to add their name to the petition (dogsatlargelaw@gmail.com). Thank you for your consideration and I hope you will find a place on your website for the information I have provided.

dogsatlargelaw@gmail.com

Some have said dogs will run where they want and it can not be controlled as they will go from one property to the next. The solution to this seems simple to me. Permission to utilize with an acreage minimum requirement and the hunter must continually track (by their collar tracking) during the released time that way they will know where their dogs are and avoid the straying onto adjoining properties. The aforementioned hunter in this letter turns his dogs loose and they wind up on mine and neighboring properties keeping us up all night with their barking and howling while he is home sleeping. Not to mention chasing our fowl and pets and running through carefully planted flowerbeds and vegetable gardens. I do not have any concern with the horseback riding fox hunters or the bird dog hunters as they obtain permission to utilize the properties they hunt while remaining with their dogs during hunting and, during their off season, walk their dogs for exercise. I have started a petition in an effort to change the law. An overwhelming amount have been happy to sign it. With the majority thanking me for doing it. Since the county is so large however, I will not be able to cover

I am writing in the hope we

I am writing in the hope we will be able to amend the law in Hanover County pertaining to dogs running at large. I was and remain appalled that if you live in an area zoned agricultural dogs may run at large every month except April, May and June when the statewide leash law is in effect. We have fowl and livestock and I like to horseback ride as well. When I want to ride on someones property, I go and obtain permission to do so. This is how it should be. Property owners pay for their property and warrant the right to say whom may utilize it. I personally enjoy seeing the wildlife on my property and believe as a property owner if someone wants to run dogs or hunt that they should have to obtain the permission from the property owner to do so. I have asked one hunter on several occasions to "please" not run dogs on my property as we have fowl and other animals. He continues to do so however, in spite of my repeated attempts of asking him otherwise (He says "because he can"). It is my property is it not? Please don't get me wrong, I do not have anything against hunters. I just think they should have to obtain permission to run dogs on the properties they wish to utilize.

dogs

i heard about the proposals today at the board meeting. I wish they would come up with laws like they have in georgia the 1,000 acre rule and extra licenses for dog registration. It would help raise more money.Also these dog hunters must not know how to read because if they could they would see that in the top 20 counties statewide they harvest more deer than the dog hunting counties and most have shorter seasons.If you dont believe it look it up in va. game and fish mag. I grew up hunting with dogs but the new technology has taken the fun out and I consider that lazy and cheating. Learn how to hunt and you will enjoy it more.

Comments on Dog Hunting

Let's just start by saying that I hunt with just about everyway that is permitted by law(bow, gun, muzzleloader and yes I own dogs) and I just finished reading this article and found that it effectively illustrated some of the views from both sides. The parts I found bothersome were the comments of a few people that posted their views and attacked others for theirs.

So to Ms. Day, it seems to me that you just want to criticize a group of people that you either don't like or don't understand. So if you don't have a side in this matter it would be best served for everyone for you to stay out of it. I would like you to post a list of your hobbies for discussion, on ethics and opinions, by people who have never participated in them or are just bored at work and want to get a rise out of you.

To the gentleman who sought to ridicule a couple of "youngsters" for getting invovled in a issue that affects their lives, I hope you feel better now that you set them straight on the grammarical responsibilities of people posting comments on a newspaper article. I mean God forbid that they're involved in something that drags them away from a Playstion or Xbox and doesn't have them out in t

Property Owners' Rights Trump Hunters' Rights

Property owners’ rights should trump hunters’ rights. If the property owner doesn’t want the hounds on his property then the hunter should keep them off by whatever means necessary to control the dogs. I am tired of these unethical “hunters” releasing their dogs near property they are not authorized to hunt and then waiting immediately next to the property to shoot at the deer as they leave the posted property. Court cases are expensive for everyone involved but the landowner will prevail in the end. It is time that the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries do their job and push for rules similar to Georgia or Florida.

deer dog hunting.

just about 3 more weeks left until the dog hunters take over the roads and woods. i wish the game dept, would at least push back dog hunting to dec. 1 so it would not affect the rut.could harvest more nice deer this way. also they need to stay out of the roads and stop tresspassing.

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