WASHINGTON
Virginia's top officials on Thursday sharpened their rhetoric and sketched out the arguments they'll make to Congress and the new Obama administration in a bid to overturn a Navy proposal to move one of five locally based aircraft carriers to Florida.
The Navy plan "is ill-timed. It is ill-advised. It is not supported by economic logic or strategic logic," declared U.S. Sen. Jim Webb, a Democrat.
"I was stunned" at the weakness of the Navy's rationale for the move, said soon-to-retire Sen. John Warner, a Republican who was briefed on it earlier this week.
The Navy plan "doesn't really pass the smell test all around," said U.S. Rep. Randy Forbes of Chesapeake, another Republican.
Hampton Roads stands to lose 11,000 jobs and $650 million if the carrier goes, according to an estimate from the Hampton Roads Chamber of Commerce.
In a news conference with Gov. Timothy M. Kaine and Sen.-elect Mark Warner, Webb and John Warner said they've asked Defense Secretary Robert Gates to block the Navy's formal issuance - scheduled for today - of a recommendation to relocate a carrier to Mayport Naval Station near Jacksonville.
The Navy has cited a need to disperse its East Coast carriers for security reasons.
"The Navy has made no compelling arguments to justify its decision," the senators wrote. The "meager advantages" the service claims for Mayport over Norfolk "are slight at best," they claimed, while the cost of improvements to the Mayport base to accommodate a nuclear-powered carrier could approach $1 billion. The Navy currently estimates the cost at less than $600 million.
That expense comes as the Navy is fighting for money for new ships and aircraft that are wearing out faster than expected because of service in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Navy has identified more than $4 billion worth of supplies and equipment that are required for its missions but that it currently can't afford.
If Gates declines to intervene and Navy Secretary Donald Winter adopts the Mayport recommendation, the Virginia officials said they'll press their case with the new Obama administration and in hearings next year on Capitol Hill, where the service would have to seek funds to renovate Mayport.
Kaine, one of the president-elect's earliest and most prominent supporters, said he's already spoken to members of Obama's transition team about Virginia's concerns with the Navy plan.
Other than acknowledging that they're recommending placing a carrier in Mayport, Navy officials have kept mum this week on their plans and the rationale for them. Pentagon officials did not respond Thursday to requests for comment on the Warner-Webb letter to Gates.
Briefing papers the service provided to lawmakers suggest that Navy leaders believe the five East Coast carriers should be dispersed as a hedge against a natural disaster or attack that could shut or cripple the sprawling Norfolk base.
The dispersal argument had some validity during the Cold War, when a robust Soviet navy was a potential threat on the East Coast, Sens. Webb and Warner said. But that threat is long gone, and dispersing the carriers today would simply create more targets that would have to be secured - expensively - against potential terrorist attacks, Webb said.
The Virginians also noted that it's unusual to have more than two or three carriers at home at any one time. They scoffed at the Navy's suggestion that moving a carrier to Mayport would provide a hedge against hurricane damage.
Forbes said Navy officials acknowledged that the risk of the Norfolk base being knocked out of action is slight - certainly less than 10 percent. In contrast, he said, there is no doubt that without an additional $5 billion by 2014, the service's inventory of F/A-18 fighter-bombers will be 125 planes short of its needs.
Forbes said the Navy's push for Mayport is a "rush to judgment" to cement the Florida base as the home of the Navy's newest carrier, the George H.W. Bush, before the current President Bush leaves office. He recalled a White House Christmas reception several years ago in which he overheard the president giving a Florida lawmaker assurances to the effect that "we're going to get you that carrier down in Florida."
The new carrier is widely expected to be the one sent to Mayport, once facilities are constructed there to accommodate it.
Sen. Mel Martinez, a Florida Republican, argued that "the Navy's decision is based on logic and reason; this is what's best for our national security."
"Mayport is strategically beneficial to the Navy's needs and offsets the risks associated with a single East Coast homeport," he said.
The rivalry between Florida and Virginia for Navy assets stretches back to at least 1993, when a federal Base Realignment and Closure Commission, or BRAC, ordered the closing of Cecil Field near Jacksonville while retaining Oceana Naval Air Station in Virginia Beach.
In 2005, another BRAC panel tried to put Oceana on the closure list. Florida promised $200 million to re open Cecil Field as the service's East Coast master jet base. The state later withdrew its offer when Jacksonville residents protested the move.
Kaine noted that history Thursday, arguing that while Virginia eventually agreed to spend $15 million annually to purchase homes and businesses around Oceana to satisfy the Navy's concerns about nearby development, Jacksonville showed hostility to the service.
Retired Adm. Robert Natter, a former Atlantic Fleet commander who has served as a consultant to Florida officials on military matters, said Jacksonville and the Sunshine State have encouraged the Navy to stay in Mayport with tax incentives and military-friendly laws.
Virginia makes the same effort, Natter acknowledged. "I wouldn't give more credit to one area over another," he said. "Norfolk is the best Navy area in the world. It is also the biggest."
Rather than argue over Norfolk versus Mayport, the state delegations should push their common interest in a larger fleet, Natter suggested. "Work harder on building ships," he said.
Pilot researchers Jakon Hays and Maureen Watts contributed to this report.
Dale Eisman, (703) 913-9872, dale.eisman@pilotonline.com
Louis Hansen, (757) 446-2322, louis.hansen@pilotonline.com
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Appropriations trumps authorization
With the recent debacle of the "bridge to nowhere" and the public's knowledge of the insane effects of earmarks on the national debt, one can only surmise that Senators will have to clearly deliberate on the Navy's request to spend $1,000,000,000 to duplicate facilities in Mayport that are adequate and available just up the coast in Norfolk. Let's accept at face value for a moment the Navy's assertion that there may be some minor increase in security from this move, the Senators must ask themsleves, if this is worth the billion dollars to provide a slight alleged increase in security? And they must come to the same conclusion as they did on the "bridge to nowhere." Sure, the 85 inhabitants of the island that would have been connected to the mainland did gain some additional access, but the price was not worth the cost. This is exactly the same situation, with the added point that actually, there is no increase in security.
Jokes
Kaine and Warner I supported both of you until I found out Bruce Williams was on Gov Kaines Board of Contractors you know the guy who was in the paper who distributed the bogus fliers for Sessoms...I wrote them about this and the treatment of blacks by police....Joke They also treat men in uniform who visit the oceanfront like derelicts..
A state that lets its cities break Federal laws and does nothing..Deserves nothing from the Federal Government...Officer Kennedy testified that officers use the n- word and they received a lecture and a movie...I wouldn't want my guys in Hampton Roads either......I’ve lived here my entire live and if my extended family would go I'd be out of here in a NY minute....The police are terrible and the leadership in VB is as corrupt as they come..
Cowpower
"If any of you Jacksonville posters mention the Pearl Harbor argument again, I'm gonna puke. It is so lame. I bet I could count on one hand the times that all the carriers were in port here at the same time."
All it takes is once, cowpower. And they don't have to all be there. In, fact, they rarely if ever are. But there are many times through the average year when 3 or 4 or more carriers or subs and all their support fleets are in port at the same time.
Well, guess since my hubbie
Well, guess since my hubbie is attached to one of the carriers, I shall put my two cents worth forward. I do not mean to offend anyone and if I do I will apologize upfront for doing so. We just recently moved back to the Tidewater area from Jacksonville Florida and after being down there for 2 years, I can honestly say with great pride that IT SUCKED!!!!!!! The cost of living down there is horrible and the paychecks are NOT compensated for it. Not to mention the housing down there is by far so outdated that when I saw it I wanted to puke!!!!!!! I wouldnt have put a dieing dog in either UNIT!!!! It was down right embarrassing and disgusting.
On to Florida or Jacksonville supporting their military. The day that the city of Jacksonville supports the military LIKE the TIDEWATER AREA DOES will surprise me. For the record they do not do JACK FOR military families down there Mayport or NAS JAX and if you do not believe me just ask any military family that is currently stationed down there and has been stationed here in the past!!!! Tidewater area goes above and beyond to extend what ever they have and then some to military families. I was never so glad to get back up here where you kn
A Billion here and a Billion there - Real Money
So as a taxpayer, you don't think the waste of a billion dollars is something to be concerned about? Given the needs of the Navy, the waste of that money will set them back even further. The facilities in Hampton Roads can be used by the new nuclear carrier, so why spend a billion to duplicate what you already have? If the Navy makes the case that this is necessary for national security, then that is different, but nothing I have seen so far even remotely makes that case.
Stop The Moaning and Groaning
Would our elected officials be moaning and groaning if the G.H.W. Bush was going to be homeported in San Diego or Bremerton, WA? They weren't when the other newly built carriers were assigned there. How can they and the press claim the area will be losing money and jobs which they don't have or are receiving at the present time if the ship goes to Mayport. This is known as counting your chickens before they are hatched. The jets will stay in Oceana regardless where the ship is assigned as there is no air station in Florida for the planes and when the carriers or many of the other ships that deploy to the Med, Middle East or other areas take the northern route to get there as it is shorter in miles and time for the ships to get to their places of deployment. When the GW got assinged to Yokosuka to replace the last CVA in the Navy were they screaming then the lost of money and jobs. NO. The carrier I will bet will go to Mayport so stop the moaning and groaning as you haven't lost something you didn't have in the first place.
An issue not being brought up
Even if all the carriers were not in port, what happpens if the entrance is blocked so they can't get in for refit and full replenishment? What if it takes months to reopen the port? Whatever ships are here would be stuck in port and whatever ships that aren't in port would be stuck without a place to be refitted.
That alone should be a good enough argument for creating another nuclear-capable carrier base for the Atlantic Fleet.
Exactly. . .
. ."A dozen companies like STIHL over the years would have provided more stability and potential for growth than the same old numbers provided by the military and contractors. . ."
This is the type of thinking we need our "leaders" to get into. This area will always be a lame, backwater military town until hopefully enough of it (DOD) leaves and we get real industry moving in here. It's a nice area that has seasons, it's just depressing DOD welfare persists.
Take the associated jets too
The arguement should be how do we bring in real growth industries here instead of relying on no-growth government jobs? A dozen companies like STIHL over the years would have provided more stability and potential for growth than the same old numbers provided by the military and contractors.
People also seem to forget
People also seem to forget that all the carriers return to HR for yard periods and refueling. Loss of support jobs for one carrier would have a minimal effect on our economy yet be a plus to FL. I don't remember the politicians being so upset when the Navy announced the GW would transfer to Japan to replace the KITTY HAWK.
VA politicans should be fighting to move the money
for this carrier move to be earmarked for reducing the encroachment around Oceana. There is no real positive to moving the carrier, but there is a huge positive to enabling the only east coast master jet base to properly perform the various missions required of that facility. Right now, Oceana is not a 24/7 training facility due in large part to encroachment. VA politicians, you want the jobs and the revenue that goes along with them, you might want to think about making the only east coast master jet base for the Navy a proper function facility. Oceana has how many jobs associated with it to include all the ancilery jobs and a carrier has 3000 people permenently assigned to it. Seems like VA politicians are missing the "boat" on what needs to be addressed. Moving the money will ensure the carrier stays at Norfolk and fixing the encroachment will ensure Oceana becomes a viable master jet base. All jobs are saved and all missions become 1st rate for our Navy.
Carriers moving
Hasn't anyone considered the possibility that the G. H. W. BUSH CVN-77 might be the carrier sent to Mayport after it's commissioned?
Re carriers
All of the carriers were not at NOB on 9 11..or a few months before either. The Enterprise CVN 65 on April 25, 2001, began her 17th overseas deployment...On 9 11 was on its way home from the cruise & was turned back. All of the ships locations are easily verifiable from ships history on their web site.
Carrier Move
On the cost to move, it has not been mentioned that the Navy will have to move the families as well. That many people means alot of moving vans, gas for vehicles... Additionally, what do they have in place for base housing? I am guessing a percentage of the families will be living in that. As to the impact on Hampton Roads, what about the number of houses going on the market? We already have alot now, what will that do to current prices? Not to mention the loss of the tax revenue from the real estate, with most citys already forcasting budget shortfalls for next year. Moving the actual carrier will be pretty cheap because it is nuke powered, but the impact for the other issues will be large.
Carriers
A few months before 9-11 as I drove across the interstate bridge I noticed what appeared to be all of our East Coast carriers parked at the Naval Base. I recall thinking, wow, that looks like a Pearl Harbor in the making. Then I thought oh well, we have no threats out there who could hurt us. So wrong! What if the terrorist group had chosen to fly the airliners into the the carriers instead? The fact remains when the USN runs low on money they park those big boats so maybe we should distribute them around. The failure to imagine the unimaginable always gets us in trouble.
Navy needs 4 Billion dollars
The Navy needs 4 Billion dollars.Let's don't give 25 billion dollars to the big three auto companies and instead split it up between all the Military services!
cowpowwer - get ready to puke
I'm not one of those Jacksonville posters, but the Pearl Harbor argument does hold some water. It's not likely that it would be a massive air raid; next time it will be several nukes in cargo containers, probably on different vessels. One ship heads toward the Newport News shipyard, one heads down river to the Norfolk Naval Shipyard, one anchors just west of the shipping channel directly across from the Naval Station piers, and when the fourth one crosses the HRBT all four nukes blow. We lose all the ship repair facilities including the nuclear support facilities, all the carriers, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, submarines and support ships in port at that time. HRBT is collapsed and blocked. What is the big effect here? Prolonged radiation contamination. Even if one or more carriers are out at sea, what will they have to return to? A radioactive wasteland? Where will they go for repair and support? Not Norfolk. If a viable alternative on the east coast is no longer available, then what? Putting one in Mayport lessens the risk quite a bit, IMHO.
Just let it go!
Send oceana too!
In their interest
The NAVY should do whatever is in their best interest for the security of the country (without wasting taxpayer money). Politicians shouldn't matter. What's best for one city shouldn't matter. Regarding a previous comment and San Diego: Housing prices are going to fall like a rock in both Norfolk and San Diego (hint, San Diego is already crashing hard, Hampton Roads will be next). That is just the inevitable since the run up was a mania fueled by lax lending standards and fraud. Navy should do what's best in the name of security.
Mayport CVN move
Take off your narrow-minded blinders! What you may not be looking at is the overall BIG picture. This move has been in the works for years since losing the CV's, other small ships out of this base and 9/11. They don't want another Pearl Harbor.
Consider the following... Mayport is now headquarters for the newly reactivated 4th Fleet. New roads have already been built to the base from the interstae highway system. Mayport is about 15-20 miles south of Kings Bay, GA, [the Navy's southern submarine base] by water, and now, about 45 minutes by interstate highway and expressways. A new VA cemetery is under construction in Jacksonville. There's about 150,000 veterans that call Jacksonville home, of which I'm one.
I came here from Norfolk in 1970 and served on two DD's until 1972. I saw all the base closures over the years and we will not see you lose anything from Oceana, since Cecil Field is experiencing a huge private-sector growth. It will not go back to being a base.
A CVN is coming to Mayport because it's best for the nation, not just Norfolk or Mayport!