Good point. And the good ole boys and gals (and, I might add, they come in every race and color) who convey to their kids that education doesn't matter and that teachers are stupid because they're a bunch of women (and all that baggage) undermine the efforts of the good teachers and the good students who are there to make education happen . . .
I believe we *need* lots of men in the classroom (not just using it as a steppingstone to become an administrator either). We have got to show our kids that teachers deserve respect, both by teaching them respect for women and by breaking the lock that women have on education because men turn their noses up at it!

The point was, Mary, and your exactly right, men don't go into teaching because the pay, in VA, is so low. If it weren't for the salaries in No. Va. my guess is we'd be dead last!
The reason the pay is so low is because Va is still has a good'ol' boy attitude and teaching is "women's work" and politicians in this state are mostly men.
It is, Reid, a gender issue on one level, because the attitude towards teachers and the teaching profession (mostly female employees)and children is not considered important work and taken for granted by those who make the decisions.
In Va Beach, 51.4% of SEVEN revenue streams go to education....not 50% of the total revenue collected by the city. As a matter of fact, when taking into consideration the amount of revenue taken in by the city (this eliminates the revenue earned in those areas designated as tif's) the actual % the city gives to the schools is less than 40%.
The union has nothing to do with it...as a matter of fact, if the union had its way, this issue would probably not be a problem in Virginia...and tenure discussions are just smoke screen conversations to avoid addressing the REAL issues. Va currently ranks #31 ..below every mid

It's not what you teach them, it's the grades you give them that creates the problem. You should give them an "A" for effort, or for staying awake in class, or not disrupting the class, or just being there. As long as they get good grades, nobody cares what they learn, until they get out of school. You know how it is. You've got to treat everyone the same, otherwise you're picking on or discriminating against someone.

I'm very skeptical about your claim that there are lots of churches in poor neighborhoods that have adequate facilities and adequate teachers who are ready to go. Your point does not address the funding of these vouchers and the impact it has on existing public schools (from attendance, to teacher staffing, to regular maintenance). Who would be the teachers for these church-based schools? Are they qualified and certified to teach? Is there an accreditation policy in place to make sure they are adequately staffed? Are they monitored? Any student transporation requirements? Surely there will be poor performing church-schools just as there are poor performing public schools. Wont a widely used voucher system require a substantial oversight program to administer? It sounds like the death knell for the public school system. And it sounds like it would create a whole new set of problems on top of the ones we have.

keep the pay low so only dedicated teachers need apply? I wonder if that would work in the executive suites of our corporations?
You might be on to something. It is pretty obvious that a generous pay scale for CEO's certainly didn't work, maybe we should use the private school technique.
Of course, the problem is that even dedicated teachers have to eat. So how many dedicated, low compensated teachers can you get if vouchers become common and millions of children opt for private schools?
Since I think that teaching is arguably the most important profession in the country, perhaps we ought to treat them as such. But then, tuition needs to go up, vouchers become small discounts and will put that education out of reach for many.
No, I think we need to repair our public schools first. But that takes leadership and effort.

Even private schools attached to churches (not all are, you know) can have a rigorous program without a state of the art science lab as there are so many museums and science facilities within 50 miles of here for field trips. Trust me, I homeschooled for years before private school. You don't want animal biology in your kitchen--the zoo and Living Museum children's programs can handle that just fine (go on-line and see how they offer at least one new children's program a month!). You can do physics up at the Jefferson Lab. History at many museums and other facilities locally . . .
And the private school teachers are very, very dedicated. Their pay is well below that of the public schools, so they have to be!

I spent years teaching. Specifically, 5th grade arithmetic.
The teachers union was one of my smaller problems. Not the largest, but somewhere in the top 20.
No...my largest problem were unprepared children. Most didn't have the proper attitude, nor studied. A majoirty of parents weren't involved. It appeared as though they expected me to raise their children. I'd get a rock on day 1 and parents expected a diamond in return.
Condition of schools? Please. What's 2X2? Does it still equal 4 if I'm teaching outside, in a trailer, or to 30 children? Did I really need to be in a state-of-the-art classroom?
Before bashing teachers-do you as parents help them or simply blame them for your own shortcomings? After all, you had Johnny for the first 5 years of his life and sent him to me unprepared. Then continued to do so until the 12th grade.

I hate to disuade you about public schools being better than private schools. They don't necessarily have the best faculties or the best facilities.

I hate to disuade some of you folks about private schools, in churches, being better than public schools. They don't necessarily have the best faculties or the best facilities.

If we had school vouchers, there would be thousands of private schools opening almost immediately in churches that stand vacant for 6 days of the week. The startup for these schools would be minimal compared to public schools and people could send their kids to an environment that is in line with their beliefs. There are a lot of churches in the poor communities that have the room and facilities available and would love to open their doors to teach kids, but the parents cannot afford to pay even a small tuition. There are plenty of churches around the country doing this now, but only in the areas where people can afford it.