Frederick's lawyer: Police may have known of break-in

Sorry, Keith, if I'm sometimes not as clear as you'd like. I've written & talked this way since childhood. Sort of a scatter shot brain, I guess. No ego trip. Richard, you just don't get it; you'll still stuck on race. In photos Ryan appears to be the class nerd, who got teased, had sand kicked in his face, his lunch money stolen & never had a girl friend. I'm not saying he is or ever was any of these things. What I'm saying is that, to many persons, this is how he may appear. On the other hand, Charles Manson looked like evil personified. Perceptions lead to the presumption of assuming. Jury nullification is just the opposite of what should occur. We all take who we are, into the jury room. That's why diversity in experience, age, education, sex, religion, culture & to lesser degrees, race & ethnicity, are vital, to have a truly impartial jury. Yet that is rare, in & of itself. Have a good 1.

Twomiler2 you need to rewrite your posts and explain where you are going and what your point you're trying make when you accuse some of us out here of a presumption of anything. I never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but most of here who post comments here aren't LEO's (former and active) with the presumption of a degree in psychology and an ego trip.

Ok twomiler, your right. Ryan Frederick is soooo lucky to have the benefits others of color would not receive. He must be smiling ear to ear tonight in his cell knowing his whiteness has gotten him this far. Sure, he has no freedom and his outlook is bleak to unsure. But hey, he's white. We all know being white in jail is a major plus. Add that in with killing a cop and your a huge hit on both sides. Lucky him.

The truth is that this is not an "Another Isolated Incident." I read Reason online and almost daily there is another story like this one. These drug cops are so EVIL that my post would be deleted if I even tried to describe a small portion of how vile and subhuman these drug cops are. Normal people have as much chance understanding the minds of these sick creatures as placing themselves into the mind of a rapist. If what twomiler2 says is true then Jury nullification is the only just action to take. To do otherwise would places yourself on the same sick level as the drug cops.

All my posts, for that my matter. The only time I bring race into my comments on an issue, is when the article itself is related to race as an issue. Again, you have the presumption to feel you can assume what I'm doing, even if what you want to believe I'm doing is in direct contrast to what it is I'm actually doing. I spelled out, in plain English, what I was doing. If you or someone else still fails to understand this, then it is up to you to find out why you are unable or unwilling to comprehend. You can't see reality due to your refusal to see my comments as anything outside of your preconception. This is why I submitted that some may not see what others see in the Frederick case. Some see what they wish to see, due to their conscious or unconscious presumptions.

Well, what was the point of listing the names you mentioned if not to infer that race was a factor since RF is white. You have brought up the race issue in posts on other subjects. You proved presumption in your post that RF will get more of a fair trial than someone of a different race or creed. You can't admit it though. RF could have been named twomiler2 and I still would have defended his actions.
The inclination to see shadiness is a two way street. LE has no problem making assumptions in the negative on the actions of a civilians such as Chet Szmecki and Dan Moore. Norfolk paid Chet $15,000 today and Dan $10,000 because they couldn't admit that their LEO's "assumed" rather than know for sure whether they were breaking the law. I believe CPD broke the law and tried to cover it up, but no one in that department will suffer any consequences. That's the sad part.

my comments & name usage served to prove the presumption of those who assume, such as you did, in this matter. A name is just that. It doesn't denote race; often, it doesn't denote ethnicity or culture either. I have a neighbor, Black in race, whose given name is Korean & last name Hebrew. I grew up with Filipino Americans with Irish surnames. I worked with a White guy named Kareem Jackson. 1 with an inclination to see shadiness in law enforcement, may make assumptions in the negative on police actions. 1 with biases,(whether conscious or unconscious), toward another person, different, in someway, than 1's self, may make negative assumptions about that person's actions. Again, I didn't use race as an issue. You did.

you, not I, mentioned race. I am an ex leo. I've been in situations in which my next move could decide whether 1 lives or dies. Have you ever been tear gassed? I have. It's not easy to maintain one's sense of surroundings when 1 is a trained military & leo veteran if sprayed with tear gas. How do you think a 17yr old mentally disturbed child would handle tear gas? Think. Please think. If 1 is to look at the info given to the general public, in each case, 1 could easily see possible problems with the police actions in the case of the 17yr old. Reread the stories on that case. Then ask 3 questions. Where, when & how. Ask these concerning the statement as to when the police entered, didn't see the weapon, & the child was seated. Where, when & how.

In the absense of a stand your ground law, it is legally inferred that you have the duty to retreat. Remember you have no right to use a firearm to protect property, if you retreat when someone breaks in, more than likely they are just there to rob your house. That is why cops and lawyers will tell you if someone breaks in, make sure they are all the way inside the house and make sure they're dead. That way they can't say that it wasn't justifible homicide. I had a friend that was a cop, man said he was going to kill him after he got out of prison. Man got out, went to friends house, was coming in the front door, friend shot him in the hand, man backed out, sued my friend and won 20 million dollars. So in this case, Ryan shot someone breaking down his front door, NOT an overt act of imminent danger, he used a firearm, killed a person OUTSIDE his house, it is murder.

The case law doesn't exactly say what you said. Read this part again.

The “bare fear” of serious bodily injury, or even death,
however well-grounded, will not justify the taking of human
life. . . . “There must [also] be some overt act indicative of
imminent danger at the time.” (citations omitted). In other
words, a defendant “must wait till some overt act is done[,] .
. . till the danger becomes imminent.” (citation omitted).
In the context of a self-defense plea, “imminent danger” is
defined as “[a]n immediate, real threat to one's safety . . .
.” (citation omitted). “There must be . . . some act menacing
present peril . . . [and] [t]he act . . . must be of such a
character as to afford a reasonable ground for believing there
is a design . . . to do some serious bodily harm, and imminent
danger of carrying such design into immediate execution.”
Commonwealth v. Sands, 262 Va. 724, 729, 553 S.E.2d 733, ___ (2001).

Someone breaking down your door is NOT an overt act of iminent danger. As for duty to retreat, look up the stand your ground law. VA does not have one that says you can stand your ground, therefore it is legally inferred that yo

All need be said

This case is over for the public, no matter what the court does. It was an overzealous, or behind in their quota, anti-drug division looking for an easy bust. Another statistic to add to the list, to get more state and federal funding of some kind. Every corner of goverment, from the White House typing staff, to local dog catcher, play this game. This time, the game went real and cost a man his life for nothing. Ryan Frederick may have been stupid. But Officer Shiver's death lays at the feet of those who knowing and willingly executed an illegal warrant, and/or misrepresnted the authenticity of their source of information, knowingly and willingly to obtain such a warrant. Otherwise, Shiver's would be alive and Frederick would have been guilty of no more than a good nights sleep. Before this is over, CPD will be a disgrace nationwide and this case will make it easier for criminals to get off on even more 'technicalities'.

From brpster "You do not have the right to use deadly force if you read these, unless it is absolutely apparent that your life is in danger."
So does this mean you have to strap video camera 24 hrs a day to your head to convince a prosecutor to keep from charging you if you happen to be threatened? Should you tell your attacket to wait 10 minutes before he kills you so you can call a prosecutor and have him determine if your life is actually being threatened to the extent that you would be justified to use deadly force?
A LEO can clean someones clock with his firearm while on duty or not if he is threatened with a baseball bat, a pocket knife, or a toothpick just because of who he/she is. The LEO's perception to having his life threatened is treated differently than one of us common folk. The LEO will avoid prosecution because the law looks at the life or death situation differently for the rest of us chumps out here. The general public cannot fear for their lives in the same way the LEO can.

Weve yet to see the wildcard yet; you know, the sleezy, dishonest dirty cop tricks are gonna be coming out of the woodwork.

The robots must tow the blueline at any cost.

Merry christmas to all the freedom lovers out there.And to the drug cops,well lets just say I hope santa brings you a nice chunk of coal.

If you don't think armed men busting down your door at 3 AM justifies shooting at them, then I hope you are never a victim of such an attack. Because you and your family could be as good as dead...Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I followed the link you provided and there is nothing there about "duty to retreat," in fact it supports exactly what I wrote.

Case law does describe a duty to retreat in public places, such as if you are menaced at a bar or on the street, in that you cannot stand your ground and use deadly force in a confrontation, and then claim self defense if you had the option to depart the scene safely (as in no expectation of being shot or stabbed in the back as you leave.)

But there is no case law in Virginia I can find requiring you to retreat within your own home. In your home you are considered to have withdrawn as far as possible already.

If you know of a contrary example outside Massachusetts, I would like to see it.

I understand the law perfectl. However, you should do some case law research. The pilot still has not approved the message I had posted earlier so I will try this again and see if it is posted.
read http://www.vcdl.org/pdf/Virginia-self-defense-cases.pdf
also look up duty to retreat in VA. Which is also in the case law.Ryan is guilty of murder, plain and simple. It does sound there was some hinky stuff by the police and that also should be dealt with, but Ryan is guilty of murder.
You do not have the right to use deadly force if you read these, unless it is absolutely apparent that your life is in danger.

Twomiler leaves out the difference in these two events as well. One the police fire tear gas into a window and commuicate with the armed person in the home. This person decides to point a weapon at the police she KNEW were coming. Had that occured in the Frederick case I assure you there would be no support from the public. Your agenda is racist as always.

"At one time I had an unassailable positive belief in the Police: That was before, Ruby Ridge, Waco, O.J.,Elian."
Let us take a look at the cases mentioned above: Waco. First and foremost there was no conspiracy. The Waco wackos fired first, and set the complex on fire themselves. Ruby Ridge: again, no conspiracy, and nothing more than a fugative who hated the US Gov't. He did not want to come out peacefully as it was. OJ: Gee, he still wants to find the real killer; all has to do is look in the mirror. Elian: I can agree with you on that one, for the US Gov't was way too forceful, but on the other side of the coin, practically the whole community was just about up in arms and was determined not to cooperate. Yes, I agree that prosecutors, LEO's and other police can sometimes be a bit aggressive in their tactics, but again, let's look at all of the facts first in this current case.

Brpster: The police were on his property;simple as that. You cannot use the lame argument: "Just ask any police officer, or any lawyer, or the Pope - because they'll all tell you I'm right." lol