Beach to spend $10M for likely light-rail right of way

towmiler2, paying taxpayer money to build stadiums for rich sports teams which will be abandoned at the whim of the teams is not the function of government. Virginia beach voters were alot smarter back then (3 decades ago). Now that the Beach built the SportsPlex, it should be obvious that it has sucked away taxpayer funds all for nothing. The Mariners defaulted on their agreement and VB taxpayers were left holding the bag. Light rail is going to suffer the same fate in VB because it will be only for the shopping pleasure of tourists commuting between MacArthur Mall and Atalntic Ave at our expense. With all the whining of budget shortfalls for the true functions of government, VB Council in it's wisdom is dumping money in Town Center and the steel elephant. What a waste!

"Well JM, not utopia at all, places like I have described exist today, and more progressive cities are creating these spaces all over again from the dust bin of deteriorating suburbia"

Mr Barrett seems to have shifted gears....from political rhetoric to Orwellian fantasy...

I also urge the citizens of Virginia Beach to get more involved in the city governments business; you cannot depend on them to do the right thing! We must always keep them accountable

Our city government wants to spend 10 million dollars on a light rail system that no one wants. That is except them! While our new mayor says he will go along with whatever the counsel wants, I want to know why he does not force the issue of a referendum. I don't want the city to spend 10 million dollars on this system, but instead put that money towards the 2009/2010 revenue shortfall that Virginia Beach will be facing. According to our city manager Jim Spore, we are all going to have to get by with less, why does this not include our city counsel? In a time when the city's agencies are asked to trim thousands and in some cases millions from their budgets, and employees are having their benefits cut reduced and taken away and their hours reduced. Why not lead the example and put that ten million to a better use? Jim Spore says the city's shortfall for the 2009/10 fiscal year will be about 38.3 million and the schools shortfall will be about 42.9 million for a total combined shortfall of 81.2 million. I have a better idea of what to do with that money, give half to the city half to the schools and move on. I also urge the citizens of Virginia Beach to get more involved in the city

on the lightrail. It doesn't come to your neighborhood and it won't take your children to public school, it won't take you to Chicks beach, it won't take you to Little Creek, NOB, NNSY, Greenbrier, Fort Story or really very many places. Just east or west. You will still have to take another mode of transportation to get anywhere else in the area. Just save the taxpayers money and work for less expensive energy. I sure do wish they would have used the money they have spent on the current lightrail to improve the neglected and awful roads in Norfolk!

There's the rub!

I support light rail but with the economic downturn we face, I can't support it at this time. To much money being spent with 60 million at town center with the dome site, convention center hotel and Rudie loop standing in line for city dollars. When the city can't afford to provide fire protection for the citizens due to budget holes, we have a problem.

Just in case you missed it the city has sent letters to all those who applied for the vacancies in the VB fire department saying there will be no replacement hired. That amounts to layoffs and danger to the current firefighter staffing on the trucks and the public in an emergency.

So while I support light rail, protecting the citizens is much more of a priority in my budget plans and mind. We can't afford these building projects until people can keep their homes, jobs and businesses in VB. It is about priorities.

did the Beach vote down light rail in '99, they dismissed the idea over 3 decades ago. The feds were willing to pay up to 80% of cost at that time. It is primarily the fault of the Beach that we don't have an NFL, MLB, NBA team or Monte Carlo style auto racing, in this area. The Baltimore Colts & the Washington Redskins used to play exhibition games in Norfolk. The Virginia Squires, featuring Dr. J & George Gervin, played here. The Squires were actually invited to join the NBA when the ABA & NBA merged. Things in this area improved, over the years, despite the Beach's arrogance. Va. Beach was created 46yrs. ago for 1 reason. Those days are long gone. Residents & leaders must join the 21st century.

Jane Jacobs 1961
"The simple needs of automobiles are more easily understood and satisfied than the complex needs of cities, and a growing number of planners and designers have come to believe that if they can only solve the problems of traffic, they will thereby have solved the major problem of cities."

The Death and Life of Great American Cities

DC built the metro, is was risky to many. We are not DC or Boston I know. But we are also not anything other than Hampton Roads, but we have cars, we have congestion and we have a future. Oil is risky. Town Center is risky. Life is risky. Sometimes gov't makes a decision that is risky. But other risks are greater. Like not diversifying our infrastructure. We can build bigger roads and live out the "Robert Moses" philosophy. Or we can promote pedestrian alternatives and reverse the congestion. Maybe not the day LRT is built, but think long term. Newport News is planning for LRT. The midtown tunnel expansion is incorporating a rail line into Portsmouth. Norfolk has ideas for an ODU/NOB line. This could become a reality over the next decade, and cars would be certainly taken off the road! The population will increase. We may not like it, but it's occurring nationwide, so it makes no sense to row against the current.

This is truly bigger than both of us. Can we imagine what it must have been like to be alive 100 years ago when Boston decided to build the subway? I'm sure there were skeptics, or those who didn't want change. But now today, are these people or their grandchildren any less of a Bostonian because their city changed soo much? When my grandparents saw the street cars leave, or my great-great grandparents saw them built. I'm sure there were mixed feeling, b/c a marked change was occurring. Life went on, and now its my turn to see changes. Fact is the whole nation is seeing a retreat back to the city. Is this bad? Good? It is what it is? I have always advocated for "smart growth" the combatant to "automobile dependency." I believe in diversity...and mass transit. I also believe that is starts little and grows. What comes first the chicken or the egg...density or transit. They compliment each other.

First, please read my comments carefully before you post replies. I said "LRT will spur TOD, which will be a solution to our sprawl problem in the region." Not that I wanted more sprawl!!! Second, LRT will not be built unless it receives federal funding, so don't say we will pay 500 million, that would be misleading! Third, just b/c YOU don't know anyone who lives by the track doesn't mean that thousands of people don't ACTUALLY LIVE THERE!! Fourth, HRT of course doesn't have any TOD plans. Private developers do;i.e.(Residence Inn, Belmont, Wells fargo tower & residences, ALL NORFOLK TOD). Neighborhoods will still exist once LRT arrives, you do not have to move, but mixed-use TOD will be the next wave of development not "nostalgic suburban sprawl." VB is changing, not to mention the nation is changing. This is a trend you will see nationwide as energy prices increase and land becomes more scarce. Twenty years will pass and you will understand why it was hard to see this change as it occurred.

It sure seems to me like the city is spending money hand over fist while at the same time talking of a shortfall and the bad economy. And to add to the mess, they are starting the proccess of decicing which school to close in Va. Beach. Something just doesn't add up! I guess we'll see it add up on our taxes. Same old politics--behind closed doors I might add.

Once again, the voters have spoken when we voted NO to the train, and once again we have been ignored. This gets tiring after a while, doesn't it?

Well JM, not utopia at all, places like I have described exist today, and more progressive cities are creating these spaces all over again from the dust bin of deteriorating suburbia. Even at Town Center, the creation of the Thalia Creek preserve is just about set to begin with walking trials and natural landscaped areas. The plaza there is very popular; you ought to get out more. Good design can provide the connections to parks and recreation, and the suggestion of pedestrian trails and a bike trail alongside the light rail is an excellent one. And yes, working landscapes can be planned and preserved, like the one on First Colonial Road across from the Hospital, and of course, south of the green line. Fact is, none of what I have described is particularly innovative, but in this era of resource constraints, just necessary.

Sounds like Utopia, Mike. However, who will be able to afford the chic, upscale housing developed within the mixed unit complexes you describe? Especially, as you put it, with “the increased value of the redeveloped real estate”.

“Working landscapes”…..I assume that you are referring to the cluster of restaurants at Town Center??

Stop sugar coating this with developer-style rhetoric.

Finally, the election for mayor wasn’t synonymous with light rail approval. There should be a referendum on the November ballot……let the citizens decide…..for a second time.

in downtown norfolk, it is easier to go to a restaurant at towne center than downtown norfolk, and we live in west norfolk. what a nightmare - roadblocks everywhere, lack of convienent parking - jeepers so i guess we'll be doing restaurnat week in the beach..less stress and better parking...

I love Va Beach and moved here because it had everything that I was looking for: great schools, great beaches, moderate climate, but most of all it had great neighborhoods, the kind that you bring a family up in and feel safe. VB is a rural city, spread out more than any other large city in VA, with shopping centers, markets, rec ctrs, schools and neighborhoods strewn throughout. You have high end, low end, but mostly middle class neighborhoods and areas. I did not move here to be part of an urban sprawl, and quite frankly, don't know anyone, but maybe you who would benefit by it, would want that. The city needs to fix the congested areas, grid locked areas, get rid of the ridiculous HOV lane, but not build mini-cities off of a train line, especially when people like myself, who would not want to be a part of it would have to be fiscally responsible for paying for it. I don't live there, but how would someone living off of Holland Rd benefit from LTR? Once you pass Dam Neck road, the area is congested with neighborhoods, thousands of families, who sit in traffic every day, but won't see a dollar spent to help them, but will have to spend a tremendous amount in taxes for what

Those few who continue to rail against light rail just don't get it. The suburban sprawl model is dead; the increasing cost of energy has put the final nail in its coffin. In its place will be a combination of mass transit, smaller fuel efficient vehicles, higher density housing and mixed use coupled with landspace and public open space, and connections to recreation and working landscapes. Light rail or some iteration of this will work in the I-264 corridor, and the increased value of the redeveloped real estate will pay for it. John Moss made opposition to light rail the mainstay of his campaign; the other three candidates expressed support for it. The public has made up its mind, and if dinosaurs like the members of the VBTA continue to rail against it, they just continue to show why their candidate got less than 16% of the vote. So keep it up,and we'll get the nails out for the VBTA as well.

Exactly. And to prove the point try and get MAX 960 ridership numbers from HRT. Good luck there. People won't even ride an express bus from the oceanfront via Silverleaf station and to downtown norfolk, any sane person would see that LRT will fail as well!

This train is not about mass transportation, it's about continued over-development. Tax dollars wasted as a development incentive.