Deirdre Fernandes
The Virginian-Pilot
©
VIRGINIA BEACH
The price to buy the old Norfolk Southern rail line for a possible light-rail project could reach $40 million.
A state budget amendment proposed by Virginia Beach Sen. Kenneth Stolle and made public Thursday offers the clearest picture so far of what Norfolk Southern wants for the 10.6-mile line. The rail line bisects the city, roughly parallel to Interstate 264.
Stolle requested $15 million in state mass-transit funds to help buy the land. That would be added to $10 million the City Council agreed last week to spend on it, $10 million set aside by the state two years ago and $5 million in utility easement payments.
"What we're trying to do is get the state to commit, in the future, revenues," Stolle said. "Not right now, but in the future. Whether it's likely or not, I'm not 100 percent sure."
Norfolk Southern officials would not say if the deal hinged on Stolle securing the $15 million. The state faces a $2.9 billion budget shortfall.
An appraisal by the railroad last year valued the Beach right of way at $50 million. Company officials have said they want fair market value.
"The bottom line is the property is worth a lot," Mayor Will Sessoms said. "It's something that has to be acquired."
The cost of the line in Virginia Beach would amount to $3.8 million a mile, compared with the $1.5 million a mile Norfolk is paying. That's because it runs through more valuable property in the Beach, Sessoms said.
"I hope he's successful," Sessoms said of Stolle's amendment.
Staff writer Julian Walker contributed to this report.
Deirdre Fernandes, (757) 222-5121, deirdre.fernandes@pilotonline.com
Aaron Applegate, (757) 222-5122, aaron. applegate@pilotonline.com
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Reid, LRT Works in low density urban settings too
Consider Salt Lake City, population 178,858 where 1,666.1 people live per square mile. They already have 3 light rail lines up and running, and 4 more under construction. They also have one commuter rail line running and just broke ground last year on an extension to that line.
Virginia Beach on the other hand has a population of 435,619, with 1,712.7 people per sq mile. Add to that nearly 230,000 living in Norfolk and the popluation served rivals Charlotte, NC, which also has light rail.
If light rail works in car loving, conservative Salt Lake City, it can work in Virginia Beach.
Apples & Oranges
There seems to be a lot of mixing "mass transit" with the specific proposed light rail line running down the NS right of way. THIS PROJECT is a waste of tax dollars, an "want" for developers, and not going to help ruduce traffic congestion - while resulting in VERY EXPENSIVE (between $8M to $12M a year!) in local (VA BEACH taxpayers) subsidies because those that will ride the LRT are not going to be charges fares that actually cover the cost of the service they are demanding. The "mass transit" lobby wants to try to frame this PROJECT in terms of those that oppose the wasteful government spending as somehow opposing all "mass transit". This is a false and deceptive ploy. THIS PROJECT is a horrific waste of tax funds at a time evry dollar should be used for the most critical NEEDS, not politcal payback for those that dumped a lot of $$$ into Mayor Sessom's $600,000 campaign to buy the Mayor's chair and a seat on the MPO. LRT is sensible in some high density urban settings. The NS line is not such a case. We have much higher NEEDS for our limited tax funds.
Yes, let's save our way to prosperity. Right.
I get the impression some people here would be happy to return to the days of horses and buggies, given the similarity between your complaints about light rail and those of people who opposed the nation's first highways. We must plan and build for the needs of the future, not some outdated perception of what we used to be. We're riding around on, drinking water from and using a variety of other public infrastructures that were largely put in place and paid for by our parents and grandparents. We cannot leave for our children and grandchildren a legacy of failing bridges, worn out highways, broken water systems and such. Light rail is an important element in an integrated regional transportation system and critical to solving what most Hampton Roads people say is the biggest problem facing our region.
People who don't want to be associated with responsible community planning will probably be happier in a smaller, simpler place. There are lots of small towns in the Dakotas that would welcome you.
We don't need light rail?! I heard that before
The same old comments: We don't need Light Rail. It's too expensive and I won't use it. I wonder what these same people will say when gas prices will rise past $3.00 a gallon and they won't have an alternative other than their gas-guzzling SUVs? Those same people was riding a HRT bus for a few times a week to save gas! IMHO, Light Rail is a necessary evil. All the big cities have it. Show me a city that has great Mass Transit and I'll show you a city that thinks those SUVs are just an unaffordable luxury and if those high gas prices do come back, then you got a cheaper alternative.
VA Beach LRT alternative
The current light rail line being constructed needs to be expanded into VA Beach. This community needs to get out of the mentality that their precious automobile is everything. The best way to move people efficiently is through mass transit options. Rails lines give better appearance and would increase ridership far more than any bus system ever will. Cost overruns are normal with any project. How much was the cost overrun of the last highway construction or expansion? Go to this for another view on the VA Beach line http://theoverheadwire.blogspot.com/2009/01/using-what-you-purchase.html
Light rail: alternatives are better
Personal rapid transit (PRT) works a lot better than light rail.
Light rail costs too much, construction is too disruptive, it serves too few, it requires large stations, and it eats too much land.
Light rail is not the answer for mass transit.
PRT systems are smaller, can be built piecemeal, have very high efficiency rates, can be built with less disruption, and use very little land. They can also read far more of the area, including low population zones, than light rail.
We don't consider it because rail politics keeps it from happening.
How can it be said it'll be cruddy if you're not going to ride.
If no one's going to ride light rail, like half of the folks here are saying, how is there going to be long lines and miserable trains? Every time the talk comes up for VB to get on board with this, people speak up with no idea of the impacts of a light rail system, or even better, MASS TRANSIT. This area is the armpit that it is because we lack that advantage, and companies notice it, not to mention events and such that would help the area out greatly. And let's look at the beach. How many people avoid going down there because the parking blows, or the parking lots are ripping everyone in their brother off? I can stay in downtown Norfolk at a hotel, or better yet, in Portsmouth, catch the ferry, and then catch the rail out to the ocean front. Less pollution, less traffic, and MORE MONEY going into VB's coin purse. The area benefits from it in more than one angle, but. No, it's a waste of time. There should be an ID check at all of the stations so they can charge folks extra who are going to or returning from VB, since no one in VB thinks it to be worth while.
NS thinks the 10 mile
NS thinks the 10 mile stretch is worth 40 million??? Great! Lets reassess the property value and let NS start paying the appropriate real estate taxes!!!!!
3.8 million a mile...
3.8 million a mile is only the beginning of mass city expenditure for nothing. This boondogle is nothing more than Sessom's dream of financing development along a rail line at the benefit of his bank and himself all at the expense of the Va Beach taxpayer. You can bet your bottom dollar that real estate taxes will go up considerably for this taxpayer subsidized socialist mess. That rail line serves no one in the region save a few. Think about it, how many people live at the beach and work in downtown Norfolk or otherwise? You people that voted for this schmuck would have done just as well voting for Mike Barrett instead. Talk about the fox in the hen house. This is just beyond comprehension.....
santa, may I quote you?
"Virginia Beach does not need light rail. It will do nothing to build the ecomony or increase the quality of life of its citizens."
Bingo. Well done. VB Council listen.