Virginia panel won't back closing 'gun-show loophole'

On the one hand, I agree with Freedom4All that it *is* good when young people -- or any people -- get involved and try to make a difference.

On the other hand, I think it's pretty sad when peaceful, law-abiding adults who merely want to exercise their basic civil rights are referred to with such hateful slurs as "paranoid anti-government gun nuts" and "far right wing lunatics".

I suppose I should be reassured when someone who wants to deprive their fellow citizens of their basic civil rights skips past any attempt at rational argument and goes straight to ad hominem.

The fact is that firearms are the single most heavily regulated consumer good in the USA, and their sale is *already* restricted far out of proportion with any real or imagined danger they pose. Groups like the Brady Campaign, who prey on the fear and/or ignorance of their fellow citizens -- or resort to hateful insults to demonize those that disagree -- in order to further undermine basic human rights... well, I do *not* think such people should be setting public policy. Nonetheless, they *are* entitled to their opinions, and I would steadfastly fight to preserve their ability to express them.

Yes: I would

It's wonderful to see the victims from the Virginia Tech tragedy and these concerned young people getting out there to do something about changing this ridiculous loophole in Virginia law. It is asinine to allow people to sell guns(!) to others without conducting background checks. There are only two types of people abetted by such a backwards policy: 1) Criminals, the mentally ill, domestic abusers, and other people prohibited under federal arm from buying firearms; and 2) Paranoid, anti-government gun nuts who wish to stockpile firearms against our democracy without being monitored.

I have no doubt that with the courage being shown by people like the Whites and these students we will get this policy changed soon. Public safety should come first, LONG before we indulge the whims of far right wing lunatics who call for anarchy and vigiliantism.

A recent national poll by Mayors Against Illegal Guns showed that 87% of Americans wanted the Gun Show Loophole closed. VCDL and the like are fringe groups, period.

There is no "gun show loophole". It's a fantasy concocted by anti-civil-rights groups like the Brady Campaign, who cynically use a handful unfortunate crime victims to further their repugnant agenda.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4835

"Despite what some media commentators have claimed, existing gun laws apply just as much to gun shows as they do to any other place where guns are sold."

"Gun shows are huge gathering points for people who are interested in Second Amendment issues. Gun rights groups frequently set up booths at gun shows to distribute literature and recruit members. Gun shows are places where Americans properly exercise their First and Second Amendment rights, and neither gun show patrons nor vendors deserve the mean-spirited campaign of abuse to which they have been subjected."

... that is attempting to fix just one small aspect of gun purchases because it wont fix ALL problems with gun purchases. No one is arguing that this will fix all problems, its just trying to fix one loophole.

As you say, if someone wants a gun there are ways to get them. That doesnt mean you should not try to fix loopholes that very well could keep a gun out of someone's hands. Granted they may go elsewhere but let them try elsewhere. Maybe they would be denied elsewhere. Or perhaps the authorities would be notified of the attempted purchase. But you dont avoid taking action because it doesnt solve all the woes.

Gun Laws Do Not Work!!!!! If someone wants a gun there is always a way to get one ... Face it the Brady Bill was a Sham.. Washington DC has strict Gun Laws and more gun crime there thing 98.8 percent of the country.

I haven't read the comments below, but I can only imagine the hilarity of some of them as this comes round and round and round again. The gunshow loophole is really a misnomer, and, at worst, it's a smoke and mirrors, feel-good issue that our legislators like to kick around to make them look like they're doing something. One day, maybe, we'll get someone in Richmond that actually does something constructive, but I'm not going to hold my breath!

Why is it a feel-good issue? Private sales of firearms at gunshows are NOT the norm. Further, private sales AWAY from gun shows are. Don't believe it? Pick up a copy of the Trading Post at any 7-11 store and turn to the sporting goods section to see how many guns are for sale. I rest my case on the "gunshow loophole" stupidity.

Finally, those that commit violent crimes don't buy guns where background checks are required, but the "gun, gun bad" elementary mentality of some folks cries for this illogical legislation. The waste of money on state police to "look for" something that really doesn't happen is even more evidence of the absurdity of the General Assembly. You elected them!

I ndespair for my country when people like you are allowed to vote...

" The Constitution was formed in a different day and age, one that is no longer necessary regarding the 2nd Amendment'

... at gun shows COULD prevent a gun sale to a deranged, mentally unstable person, which could help avoid the death of one or more people, who would otherwise be dead & buried forever... and whose parents, family, and friends would grieve for the rest of their days. But the problem with this approach is it would be terribly inconvient to the seller. Good lord.

For the "ban this too" crowd, throwing an artery-clogging cheeseburger or a pack of smokes at someone doesnt have the same immediacy & finality. But those arguments are hilarious nonetheless.

Arguing that certain locales have implemented 'sensible gun laws' when one can go NEXT DOOR to the 'sensible' locale and buy guns galore to take back to the sensible locale puts a dent in the argument that any locale has really implemented sensible gun laws.

(And see how you feel when it's one of your family members who's shot by some deranged person who gets a gun without a full background check.)

The statement below about the Swiss being required to have guns isn't accurate or complete.

In Switzerland, former military personnel are ALLOWED (not required) to keep a gun. Automatic weapons are required to be reconditioned to semi-automatic status before they can be released to a home.

But here's the big difference - BULLETS are only sold and allowed to be used at authorized firing ranges. There are strict and harshly enforced laws prohibiting possession and use of bullets anywhere else in the country.

Comparing the support for smoking bans to gun control resistance is exactly the point. Think of how many places you cannot smoke and the list is growing. Now think back how it began. You started paying more for your right when politicians allowed big tobacco to get sued for people’s personal choice. Gun ownership is in our Bill of Rights just as is non-state sponsored religion and freedom of speech. We each have our limits of each invading our space but we must NOT infringe them. Gun control does NOT reduce crime as shown in localities that restrict ownership the most. This is a proven fact and any convict will tell you they fear an armed citizen. The fear of “sensible gun laws” is that areas that have accepted this notion no longer allow gun ownership like NYC, DC, and Chicago. Gun show loopholes make no sense when a criminal can buy a gun unchecked next to a dealer who is forced to run a check.

I am so stunned by the number of people who have taken issue with our Constitution. Calling it antiquated or irrelevant…but only on the 2nd amendment. For all you anti-2nd amendment folks out there…why don’t we just trash the entire Constitution? We’ll just let the police break down your door any time for any reason without probable cause, with no accountability for their actions, haul you off to jail for no reason at all, and seize all your possession just because. Then, to top it off, they can arrest you, throw you in prison just because of something you wrote or said that disparages the government or any official. Why not remove the 14th amendment and return to slavery? You people are pathetic. The Constitution was written in 1778 to protect us and give us rights in 2009…even if it’s rights that you personally don’t like. Better yet, why don’t you anti-constitutionalists move to another country.

As I stated earlier, the DC gun ban has been around for over 30 years so trying to say that the murder rate has dropped in the last 15 years because of it is grasping at straws.

People kill people but it sure is a heck of a lot easier when you have a gun in your pocket. Why, if you had to wait to go find a pipe or knife, you might change your mind. Yeah, and automobiles kill people too. That's why you have to take a test and get a license and follow a whole passel of rules in order to operate one. Whereas, any idiot can buy a gun and put it in his pocket and use it because somebody thinks he's ugly. I believe that anyone who opposes background checks for ALL guns has something to hide. And don't give me the old song and dance about Constitutional rights. When it boils down, our Constitution was written by a bunch of terrorists who were scared of retaliation by the government they had just overthrown.

One issue seems to be the grey area in federal law between collector & dealer. I am not aware of a set number of transactions before you become "engaged in a business" which requires a Federal Firearms License. Most collectors are not the problem they collect a specific type or period firearm. Go to the next gun show, you will see some "collectors" with tables full of guns available to anyone with cash. They will be at the next show with another table full. Exactly what are they collecting? Why get a business license, or federal license when this is allowed ?

What kind of kickback are officials getting for this one? If you think that you need a gun right away, chances are good that you shouldn't have a gun.

Did anyone see the episode on TV Monday evening? Did a segment on "Grambo", an old lady that pulled her "snub nose S&W 38" on a man that had broken into her house.She saw him come up the walk and then bang on the door. When she refused to open it he BASHED THROUGH THE FRONT WINDOW!Can you imagine what that would feel like? My God in Heaven!
What do you do?Call 911? OK. Then what? He is in your house.He has no gun but the one in his pants.Cops there yet? It's been 30 seconds.Where are those cops?Now he's grabs you and.... Get the pic? But Grambo had other ideas.She pointed the 38 at him and threatened to shoot if he came any closer. THEN she called 911.Happy ending.Remember, he had no gun,but he was young and spry.She was old and frail, but had a gun.So,as the saying goes about the inventor of the "Colt" hand gun,"God created man but Samuel Colt made them equal".All you anti-gunners,what if it's your Gramma,mother,daughter,or YOU! PS:A friend of mine several states away said the local papers had picked this story up and they question the VT protesters motive since the VT shooter DID NOT buy his gun at a 'gun show'.I don't get it either.

Why not choose 1992 or 1973 you picked the highest year to manipulate the numbers to suit what you want. You should be a journalist.

You forgot to mention that for the entire country the numbers dropped.
Using your year 1993 there were 24,530 per and then in 2007 there were 16,929 per. So across the country enforcement of existing laws contributed to a decrease in the murder rate.

A random sampling of states to avoid favorites showed a decrease in every state sampled as well.

So much for that pet theory.

There's no "probably" about the fact that most illegal handguns involved in NYC crime come from Virginia:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259726,00.html

You just don't like to read the countless little blurbs about state troopers in NJ, NY and Pa. pulling over the drivers who are in such a hurry to speed home from the Commonwealth to sell off their goods. As if saying, "don't buy for the other guy" after "from my cold dead hands" solves the problem.

As a former leo I am sure you are aware then that the criminals from New York use hired mules to bring drugs down here to sell to our children.
http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/virginia-beach-man-leads-police-120mph-chase-through-eastern-shore
Then they are ILLEGALLY procuring the guns and taking them back to New York.
By coming to Virginia to get the guns they are already breaking numerous State and Federal laws. One more law will not stand in the way of criminals that are already intent on what they are doing.

You want to call me a liar because you have a reading comprehension problem.

Go to http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/index.html
yourself and verify the numbers that I wrote then post an apology for your personal attack.

Table 4 would the easiest way to get the data since you have proven to be incapable of actually finding facts instead of posting vitriol.