The Virginian-Pilot
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VIRGINIA BEACH
The city is eyeing the vacant Circuit City property near Town Center for a potential light-rail station.
Beach officials are in talks with representatives of the property owner, a Dallas-based investment group, and with commercial real estate manager Gerald Divaris, who brought the $5 million potential deal to the city.
"The bottom line is that could be a strategic parcel to own," said Councilman Jim Wood, citing the land's proximity to both the probable path of a rail line and Town Center.
But some council members question whether this is a wise use of city money when the Beach has not voted to build a light-rail line.
The 3.3-acre site off Independence Boulevard is next to the Norfolk Southern right of way. The city recently announced a preliminary agreement to buy the 10.6-mile right of way for $40 million.
A year long environmental impact study that would help identify rail stations is scheduled to start soon.
In 1999, Beach residents rejected the addition of a light rail 56 percent to 44 percent.
Until the council decides to build a light-rail line, it shouldn't buy property for a station, Councilman Bill DeSteph said.
"We're a year and a half or two years away from a vote on light rail," DeSteph said. "I can't imagine buying land for a light-rail station."
But the property is available now, Wood said.
An environmental impact study done in the 1990s had the light-rail station for the central business district in the same vicinity, a block east of the Circuit City property.
The Circuit City property would allow the city to tie the stop to its parking garage on the other side of the tracks. Light-rail passengers could then exit into Town Center through the garage, Wood said.
If the city decided against light rail, the property could be part of the expansion of Town Center, Councilman Ron Villanueva said.
However, the Circuit City property is outside the original boundaries of the Town Center public-private partnership, which stops by the railroad tracks. The city has helped purchase property and build infrastructure in Town Center so that Divaris and developer Armada Hoffler could transform it into an upscale, urban area.
"Controlling that property would allow the city better options," Villanueva said. "In this economic market, particularly with Circuit City, it's a window of opportunity."
But the city needs to determine the property's value, he said.
The property was most recently assessed at $5.3 million for city tax purposes.
The deal Divaris presented to city officials also included a "look back" charge if the property is further developed.
Several council members balked at paying the property owner more later if the value of the land increases.
"The 'look back' is not for me," Divaris said in an e-mail. "It is a way to allow the current owner to participate in the future upside of the property in the event that there is an enhanced value."
Even without the "look back," it's unclear how the city would finance this deal.
"It's long-range strategic thinking, and that's what we need to do," Wood said. "We just can't think what the next year's budget is going to be. It's what our citizens are going to need in the next decade."
Deirdre Fernandes, (757) 222-5121, deirdre.fernandes@pilotonline.com
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A Perfect Spot If...
The abandoned Circuit City property would be a perfect spot for a light rail stop. That is, if you assume VB is ready for a light rail system and has the funds to maintain it without placing an additional funding burden on taxpayers.
I grew up in northern Virginia and it took several years for ridership to increase...and that was going back and forth from Springfield to D.C.
I am skeptical of ridership on this proposed project ever achieving a positive cost/benefit ratio. Even today, the metro, as well as the subway system in N.Y. and San Francisco are losing money. Ridership is up, but the cost of operation surpasses the revenues taken in.
VB continues to fund and build competing venues with Norfolk, in essence competing with itself.
This guy complaining about it costing 30 million for DC metro
When was the last time a road made money? This is a project meant for the greater good of the people, the definition of what is supported by the people (taxes). Just tell me how bad would DC traffic and parking be without the metro? See, that is the point! Every person who rides the Metro or the TIDE for us will make it a little less crowded. We can not get caught up in complaining about it not making money, that is not.. I repeat again not the purpose!!!! again I say not the purpose! It is meant to take cars and people off the road! Stop complaining or Come up with a betteer plan. I promise you I will and every other sane person who is backing this will fall in line right behind you and exalt your genius if you come up with something better! That said when you can't just back the best plan we have!!!! that is the TIDE
Light Rail
I have been a Virginia Beach resident for all but two years of my life, and all of my time as an adult. When the light rail opens in Norfolk I look forward to driving my truck to Newtown or Military Circle and taking the light rail into downtown to watch my Admirals and Tides, in addition to any other occasions which bring me that direction. I will support any reasonable attempt to continue that light rail all the way to the Oceanfront of Virginia Beach and elsewhere, will cast my vote for any reasonably termed referendum supporting efforts to make that happen, and will actively stump in support among my friends and acquaintances, most of whom were not of the voting age when this was last voted on (two presidents ago). With all that in mind, I agree with the acquisition of this property while it is available.
VB BUS "HUB"
LRT or not, the once Circuit City location near Town Center would be an excellent site for a combination bus hub/P&R facility. In turn, the present Silver Leaf P&R facility would be closed and the site hopefully sold, with its activity moving to the new Town Center "hub". Relocating the current so-called Pembroke DTC to this "hub" would enhance bus movements in this area by eliminating a few turns and bus stops. And buses of MAX 960 Route could easily exit I-264, stop at the "hub", and then continue on their way.
Since 1975 there have been at least six TMT/TRT/HRT EXP bus lines operating between downtown Norfolk and Virginia Beach [Pembroke/ Oceanfront]. Route 34X was the first [prior Trailways EXP service]; 960 is the latest. Yes, HRT was steadfast in the planning stages of this line in its refusal to create a spur or an alternate routing into Town Center, or anywhere else, for that matter. Even the former SEPTA analyst, who should have known better, said "no way".
So?
Does that mean more people will ride the MAX? Does that mean that VBwill have to pay more? Urban legend or reality?
Or Fantasy?
re:aalto
On the MAX Route 960, both the City of Virginia Beach and it's then-two UCAC members made it clear that Town Center should be served by the 960. HRT stuck their head in the sand and is now learning the hard way. When the 960 passes to the City of Virginia Beach to pay (it's now being covered by a Federal CMAQ grant), it will go to Town Center.
Urban Legend, or Reality..
Let's check the facts. In 2001 HRT tried an express shuttle from VB to norfolk. Failed. No ridership. In 2009 HRT tried another express shuttle from VB oceanfront to downtown norfolk. It's Called the MAX route 960. Average ridership, 4 people per bus. Should we call that failed, or is this an urban legend. No, it's reality.
LRT is not mass transit, it is development oriented transit. Not designed to enhance use of a transit system. Not designed to get rid of cars, but designed to entice additional development, and create more gridlock and more congestion.
What makes anyone think that a train is going to do any better?
funny henryr
" An enhanced mass transit system here would allow struggling familes to ditch one of their two cars, helping them financially and getting cars off the road for those who do need to drive."
Even your pal mikeyb admitted that this people mover has no value as "mass transit", it's designed to encourage an Orwellian fantasy of new world order growth along it's path. Your guys ought to get your fairy tales coordinated
hwatkins...
"Look at the DC Metro"...yes lets look at DC Metro. Currently on taxpayer life support. This year they required a 30 MILLLION Dollar subsidy from the communities served. Estimated to increase to 45 Million next year without substantially increasing fares....gee thats sort of like running a real business....can't do that now can we?
Whenever politicians speak DON'T listen to what they say, understand that the deception is in what's not said. If they succeed in building this turkey of a people mover we will start subsidizing it the moment it goes in motion and the dollar drain will NEVER stop. Kill it NOW or it will hemorrhage money forever.
Sessoms in 1999 & Buses
In reply to a couple of things that have been said here:
1. In 1999 then-Vice Mayor Will Sessoms was one of two Council members (along with Barbara Henley) who endorsed a "Yes" vote on the referendum question. Sessoms voted (along with the rest of Council) to withdraw Virginia Beach from light rail the Tuesday after the referendum question lost. I was one of two people to address Council that day.
2. "The buses are empty" is largely an urban legend. A number of our routes (20, southern portion of the 29, 36 ,etc.) do well. Their big problem is what little service there is off VB Blvd. cripples their practicality as an option. An enhanced mass transit system here would allow struggling familes to ditch one of their two cars, helping them financially and getting cars off the road for those who do need to drive.