The Virginian-Pilot
©
PORTSMOUTH
Edward Ellis thinks the $2 to $3 that have been proposed as potential tolls at the Midtown and Downtown tunnels would be hard on Norfolk Naval Station and Norfolk Naval Shipyard workers.
But Dean McClain, a staff director of the Hampton Roads Chamber of Commerce, said his wife told him she would be willing to pay those tolls to avoid the headache of sitting in traffic for an hour and a half.
They are two of more than 10 people who spoke at the first public hearing Tuesday on a $2 billion proposal by a consortium of private companies to add a second tube to the Midtown Tunnel, refurbish the Downtown Tunnel and build an extension to the Martin Luther King Freeway.
The second hearing will be held in Norfolk tonight. A state-appointed independent review panel is conducting the hearings and vetting the proposal.
The meeting began with presentations by Virginia Department of Transportation staffers on Elizabeth River Crossings LLC's ability to do the job.
Malcolm Kerley, VDOT's chief engineer, said that, from an engineering standpoint, Elizabeth River Crossings is well-qualified to move the project forward.
He added that now the question is, What are we going to have them build?
"We don't think we put out a Cadillac tunnel " in seeking bids for proposals, Kerley said.
VDOT officials are looking to lower the costs and will meet with representatives from Elizabeth River Crossings on Thursday to agree on the scope of the project.
It's envisioned as a public-private partnership, and the consortium would operate the projects for 50 years. Tolls would be as high as $3 each way for cars and $9 for trucks at both tunnels, plus a 50-cent car toll and $1.50 truck toll on the MLK extension.
The financial vetting of the project will take place at a May 13 meeting.
Other speakers raised questions specifically about the MLK extension.
The Rev. Philip Parker of Calvary Baptist Church said he thinks most of his congregation supports the Midtown Tunnel expansion but has "grave reservations" about the extension of the freeway, which is close to church property.
The project, envisioned as an elevated, north-south connection between U.S. 58 and Interstate 264, would displace 18 home-owners, two tenants, and seven businesses, according to VDOT.
Tolls also remained an issue. Councilman Doug Smith described the proposed $2 to $3 tolls as "certainly an amount that our citizens cannot bear." He asked that the state consider getting rid of the debt the city is paying off to keep tolls off the Pinners Point Interchange in Port Norfolk.
City officials are also interested in getting light rail through the new Midtown Tunnel tube.
Kerley said VDOT doesn't intend to have light rail run through the new Midtown Tunnel. But he said the builders can construct the second tube tall enough so other modes of transportation can be accommodated.
Jen McCaffery, (757) 446-2627, jen.mccaffery@pilotonline.com
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An old hymn with new words:
With proposed tolls at nearly every possible way out of Portsmouth, I can't help but sing an old hymn adding new words:
'One toll at a time, sweet Jesus..'
Ha!
This is the worst idea I've ever heard. I hope the downtown tunnel is ready for double the traffic it already has. Better start leaving for work about 2 hours earlier.
Even Though VDOT says 6-9 PM the meeting was over by 6:45
So I take the time to drive over after I get home from work and I get to the lobby by 6:45 PM and people are streaming out and I'm told the meeting is over. I would have liked to make a comment.
If this passes and tolls are put back on the downtown tunnel along with the midtown tunnel, downtown Norfolk, Granby street, the mall, Ghent and other Norfolk businesses will die a slow death. It is amazing to me how short memories are. Downtown Norfolk and Ghent really took off once the tolls went away as it opened Norfolk businesses up to a whole new group of customers from Western Branch, Northern Suffolk and Portsmouth. Believe me once the tolls go on these customers will take their business elsewhere. I dare say that 15 to 20% of the business Ghent has comes through the midtown tunnel and believe me this will end. I live in Portsmouth and usually by 7:00 PM the midtown tunnel is clear and so going over for dinner or to Little Theatre of Norfolk are part of our routine. Trust me that will end once the tolls go on and the connections between both sides of the river will be broken.
Tolls and taxes
The tolls are the only way that there will be money to build the second tunnel. We pay gasoline taxes to build and maintain roads but...... It appears that the gasoline tax money is prorated back to the counties and cities on a basis of the number of road miles in that locality. The tax is collected on a per gallon of gasoline sold basis. A little quick math will reveal that the rural counties with lots of road miles and few citizens are getting significantly more road money than their citizens pay in gasoline tax. Wake up Tidewater and NOVA; you are paying the bulk of the taxes while the rural areas of Virginia reap the larger benefit. How can this be you ask? Well don't bother asking VDOT as they have no say in the matter. The problem lies with our legislature that established this formula and refuses to change it. My new mantra is.... Vote for term limits, don’t reelect anyone!
Who comes up with these $$$ amounts?
I am of the belief if a road is paid for do not put a toll on it.
However, these appear to be projects that would affect these routes. Where do they come up with these fee amounts??????
$3.00 each way? Someone driving to and from work Mon-Fri would pay $30 a week or $120 a month.
Do these people think we are all made out of money???
I would really like to know who comes up with these figures.
Also with congrestion already at a breaking point you are going to add a toll which makes it worse?
No thanks. I will take 664-64 or Military Highway around these areas. Get your $$$ from somewhere else.
$120 a month extra? WHAT?
On average, this would be about $120 a month extra bill for every single car using the tunnel on a daily basis? I think that tolls may end being the way to go but this is outrageous for this region. There is no way on earth that $6 extra per day is fair when all the other people who use all the other roads in the region pay nothing for those roads. Perhaps if they come up with a commuter plan for $1.00 each way or even $3 but only one way it would not seem so crazy. As a resident of Norfolk, I do often go out in Old Towne, shop in Suffolk and Western Branch. Put a $6 surcharge and you can kiss my business and sales tax revenue (and that of most other people on "this side" of the tunnel) GOODBYE. City leaders, are you reading?
In response to earlier comments
These tolls will probably use overhead sensors, like those used for EZ-pass, since that's the preferred method for most new toll roads, including the proposed tolls on the new Steel Bridge in Chesapeake. This reduces toll-related congestion and operating costs. Using gas tax for new construction is problematic for two reasons: 1- as cars become more fuel efficient tax revenues fall precipitously (this trend has already begun); 2- Unlike the tax, tolls are variable- consumers pay more to use toll roads that were more expensive to build and operate, and during times of day when congestion is high (congestion pricing). This creates market incentives to reduce uneccessary driving (make one long trip instead of several small ones).
Time of next meeting tonight:
Since a 30-second Google search is apparently too much work for Pilot reporters, here are the time and place for the public's last chance to comment on the proposal:
Date: April 22, 2009
Time: 6 - 9:00 p.m.
Location: City of Norfolk Council Chambers
810 Union Street, 11th Floor Norfolk, VA 23510
At this meeting:
The public will have an opportunity to address the IRP [Independent Review Panel] with comments, suggestions and concerns. The IRP will gather public comments. It is not for public questions and answers from the IRP.
from http://www.virginiadot.org/ppta_projects/midtown_tunnel/meeting_three.asp
tolls don't work
to relieve traffic. They cause traffic to stop because not everyone will have easy pass. Take a look @ the Chesapeake expressway during tourist season & this is what you will have everyday. There will not be any benefit to the flow of traffic, just more stop & go 5 feet, stop & go 5 feet. We'll be paying more $$'s to only have the same thing, No Thanks!!
Tolls are an incredibly
Tolls are an incredibly stupid way to finance highway projects because so much of your toll ends up paying for building and operating the infrastructure that collects your tolls. Gas taxes are probably the fairest option (since not just users pay, but also those who indirectly benefit from decrease congestion elsewhere) but they're a practical impossibility for our spineless politicians. So if you have to charge tolls to build it, please skip the toll booths and toll collectors and make it EZ-Pass only.