The Virginian-Pilot
©
CHESAPEAKE
South Hampton Roads' chances of getting high-speed rail could be hurt because the state has overpriced how much money it would take to connect to the growing passenger train network, Norfolk Mayor Paul Fraim said Wednesday.
Fraim's comments came on the heels of the state rail department releasing for the first time a cost estimate of $412 million for running trains from Richmond to Norfolk along the U.S. 460 corridor.
Chip Badger, Department of Rail and Public Transportation director, told the Hampton Roads Transportation Planning Organization in a meeting Wednesday that the figure includes $150 million for the segment between Richmond and Petersburg.
The cost of that segment is also included in the state's highest priority rail project - $1.57 billion for high-speed rail from Washington to Petersburg.
Fraim said counting that segment twice "is simply unfair to South Hampton Roads. The state knows they have to bear the cost from Richmond to Petersburg anyway."
Decision makers often base judgments on costs, Fraim said, and the cost will be inflated for the Norfolk link.
Both the Southside and Peninsula are vying for federal money to be connected to the national high-speed network under President Barack Obama's $8 billion rail-stimulus package.
Jennifer Pickett, the state rail department's Chief of Policy and Communication, declined Wednesday to provide cost estimates for the Peninsula route.
Last week, Virginia submitted paperwork to federal authorities for federal stimulus money for the Washington to Petersburg link. A corridor from Washington to the Virginia state line along Interstates 95 and 85 has been designated as part of the Southeast High Speed Rail Corridor.
The state also submitted a Hampton Roads connection for a second round of federal funding. In addition to the original $8 billion, Obama has proposed another $5 billion over five years for high-speed rail.
However, it has not been determined which route a Hampton Roads line would take: either along U.S. 460 to Norfolk, on the current Amtrak line parallel to Interstate 64 on the Peninsula, or both. Speeds of up to 110 mph are proposed, up from a maximum of 79 mph on the Peninsula Amtrak service.
A state study examining the costs and ridership of bringing the higher-speed trains to Hampton Roads is expected to be released later this summer. So far, the state has estimated the cost, depending on the route, would range from $330 million to $844 million.
Meanwhile, the transportation planning organization passed a resolution Wednesday endorsing a Hampton Roads high-speed rail connection without specifying a route. The resolution states it's "an important regional priority."
Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms, who chairs the transportation agency, said high-speed rail is critical to the region's viability. He requested that a special meeting be held to focus on the issue.
"We're not going to be left out," Fraim said.
Debbie Messina, (757) 446-2588, debbie.messina@pilotonline.com
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Higher speed rail cost estimates are for upgrades, not new track
Here are 2 presentations from Norfolk Southern and CSX explaining the upgrades required to bring higher speed rail to Southside and the Peninsula:
http://www.slideshare.net/HRPartnership/presentations
You'll see South Hampton Roads/NS and VA Peninsula/CSX. The NS presentation is a PDF; no animations. The CSX presentation, on the other hand, you will want to download the file (see "Get File" at the top of the presentation window) and play on your desktop in order to view animations of rail line needs.
The higher speed rail cost estimates mentioned are for upgrades to freight rail to accommodate passenger trains, not new track, right-of-ways, etc. like The Tide light rail.
high speed rail
I took the electric train from Providence to Boston and the trip took only 40 minutes and cost $12 bucks. The trip went from Downtown to Downtown, and it would have taken a car 2 hours on a good day, not to mention city traffic and tolls to get on the mass pike. So yeah, I believe in mass transit and high speed rail and know first hand that its not just a pork barrel choo choo like some of you naysayers like to think!
HIGHER SPEED RAIL
Average speed of the morning AMTRAK train from Newport News (NPN)-Washington, DC (WAS)is about 43 mph; distance is 187 railroad miles. A change of locomotives is required in WAS, from diesel power to electric propulsion, as the AMTRAK line north of WAS is electrified. One contributing factor for the slow travel time NPN-WAS is the time consuming jaunt between the two AMTRAK stations in Richmond. Too, at times CSX will delay an AMTRAK train, especially in the Richmond area, while freight and passenger trains rumble by on adjacent tracks. On one-trip we were held @60 minutes just north of RIC while this scenario took place. As a former railroader I understand the reasons why, but none-the-less this delay was annoying, and all too common.
One of several proposals concerning "higher speed trains" is to upgrade the rights-of-way allowing these trains to average 75 mph. This would then reduce the NPN-WAS ride to about 2 1/2 hours.
Thanks for the info re:
Thanks for the info re: Amtrak/WAS. I didn't know they were switching from Diesel-Electric to straight Electric. I think I remember hearing them say they were switching out locomotives, but no details were offered.
"We're not going to be left out"
This one's mine. That one's his. This one's mine. That one's his.
Mr. President sees any federal, state, or local tax money as money to spend on pet projects. Think Arts funding and Libraries here. Two non essential services to better the quality of life for a select few.
What about the mind set. I want a high speed Choo Choo train in my back yard to go with my 7 mile QUARTER BILLION dollar Choo Choo train for the downtowners. Spend , Spend, Spend. Imagine what that much money could go for in Norfolk neighborhoods. At a million dollars a mile, look at how many miles of streets we could do in Norfolk.
This is another reason why us poor Norfolk taxpayers need a fresh set of eyes on our problems. We taxpayers and voters only have ourselves to blame.
MONEY (all of it taxpayer) is not going to solve all of our transportation problems. New leadership, which we lack regionally, could.
What a deal
Shoot, the price tag from Richmond to Norfolk looks like a bargain in comparison to the Tide. Also, does it not seem pathetic that local and state government officials are having to beg for money from the feds. Some federal bureaucrat in Washington is going to make the decision. Pitiful. This is the problem with everything going through the feds...but of course politicians like Obama love the power it gives them.
412 million to go from
412 million to go from Richmond to Norfolk, but 288 million from EVMS to Shoneys? Heck, isn't Virginia Beach paying Norfolk Southern $40 million for train property they tax at $20 million (Look out Norfolk, sounds like someone is trying to lure someone to move their headquarters.) I took Amtrak once to NYC, and it's depressing riding from Newport News to DC, watching the cars fly past out the window on i64. Then once you hit DC, after a delay they make changes (different locomotive?) and then things pick up. You can tell the tracks are more secure from DC to NYC, where the trains run at high speeds. It was fun to ride Amtrak for the train factor, but the ticket was about parallel in cost to a plane ticket at the time and the train trip took all day. Need some maglev action like the transrapid.de system.
You noticed this too?
Bogus cost estimates for highER speed rail (not high speed rail)? Ethan, good catch! "412 million to go from Richmond to Norfolk, but 288 million from EVMS to Shoneys?" (at Newtown Road - a 7.4 mile rail system with 9 train cars). These numbers don't really add up, do they?
Another con job
This is all a joke--look at the money they are talking about. Hampton Roads will continue to be the step child of the state. Where is the surprise?