CAMDEN COUNTY, N.C.
Navy jets would break local noise laws like a neighbor with a loud stereo, thanks to North Carolina's new law against unwanted airfields.
A law passed in April says North Carolina does not consent to the Navy taking property for an outlying landing field in a county that does not already have a military base where aircraft squadrons are stationed.
But if the Navy uses its constitutional authority to take land anyway, the airfield could be susceptible to local zoning and noise ordinances making it tough to operate, Camden County attorney John Morrison said.
Morrison based his conclusion on an Aug. 28 letter sent to Rep. Walter Jones from Grayson Kelley, North Carolina's chief deputy a ttorney general.
Released Monday, the letter indicates counties could invoke local laws on the Navy and the state would support enforcement if necessary.
"That's my interpretation," Morrison said.
Last month, the Navy announced that release of an environmental impact statement would be delayed until at least next spring. The study was expected to name the Navy's preferred airfield site from among five - three in Virginia, one in Gates County and one in Camden County.
Since the sites were proposed in January 2008, Gates and Camden counties have teamed with attorneys and environmental engineers to oppose the Navy's plans.
State lawmakers, the governor and the a ttorney g eneral all have opposed the Navy's plans. Groups have publicized any possible obstacle, including the existence of rare animals, effects on wetlands, the strain on economically depressed areas, relocation of families and hardships on farmers.
The attorney general's opinion is the latest deterrent for the Navy, according to opponents.
"While it is unlikely the State can prevent the acquisition of property by the federal government, without full jurisdiction over property acquired for an OLF, it appears that the Navy would have difficulty in operating a military base," Kelley wrote in the letter. "The Attorney General's office will therefore continue to carefully monitor all legal issues related to the OLF siting process and be prepared to act as necessary to protect the economy and environment of eastern North Carolina."
Federal law allows the Navy to take land for national welfare and the airfield would not be susceptible to local noise and zoning ordinances, said Navy spokeswoman Lt. j.g. Laura Stegherr.
"Nothing has changed since April when the law was passed," she said.
The new law amends an old state law that for decades has given the federal government blanket permission to take land and build facilities such as military bases and post offices.
Most states, including Virginia, have similar laws because federal facilities typically are beneficial, Morrison said.
The state amendment invokes Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, which says the federal government may not take land without the consent of the state legislature, Morrison said. North Carolina does not consent to an airfield in Gates or Camden counties, he said.
Camden County's noise ordinance prohibits amplified music above 55 decibels at night in a residential zone. The noise level is measured at the property line, Sheriff Tony Perry said.
In a manufacturing zone, noise levels cannot exceed 75 decibels. F/A-18 Super Hornets reach 150 decibels at close range, according to a Navy Times story on a Navy Audit Service report.
The farm land proposed for an airfield is zoned general use, said Dan Porter, director of the Camden County planning department.
Airfields are allowed, but only with a special use permit from the Board of Commissioners, a body that has unanimously opposed the OLF.
Jeff Hampton, (252) 338-0159 or Jeff.Hampton@pilotonline.com
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NC eyes local law to stymie OLF
It seems that some folks in NC believe the Navy only protects Virginians and that none of the money generated in Virginia Beach and Norfolk by the Navy crosses the border to NC.
Sorry, but I do realize that the Navy protects all of us
Based on your logic, there should be an OLF, or military something in EVERY county, town, city, to PROVE their support for the military. Communities are given the opportunity to host military facilities all over this country. Most do a fantastic job of protecting the mission of the facility in their community. VA BCH LG does not.
That logic is flawed. The rural folks of VA and NC are exercising the many freedoms our Navy has worked for many years to give us. The freedom to question even them. Your implied statement of NC does not desire to support our Navy needs to be directed at the local governments that are at the heart of this problem. The Virginia Beach and Chesapeake Local Governments that have been told by many, to include the Navy, that their actions are degrading the training our pilots should have TODAY. There is the crux of this problem. When that problem is fixed, our pilots dont have a problem. The partnership between the Navy and these two local governments need to put their heads togather and find a solution, one that does not include a 2nd OLF. They need to make viability choices.
a lawn mower???
You just nullified the complaint of loud jet noise. Thanks man.
Hey city hall, how many complaints of lawn mower noise do you get?
When is the Navy going to explain why they need this 2nd OLF
in the first place. Folks talk about rural sites, Ft. Pickett or other suitable OLF locations as though it is a foregone conclusion this thing is required, when the Navy has never explained why Oceana and Fentress cannot do the job in the first place.
If the Navy simply used Oceana for more then 5 FCLPs operations after 10pm for the entire year, they would have all the capacity they need. There is no justification to look for another runway when the Navy has enough already.
Navy, you have not explained why you need this OLF. For years, we have asked you and you side step that question. What is your official reason for pursuing this OLF? Put it on your website for all to see. As of right now, I contend your need statement for this OLF is on your web site. There isn't a need, that is why there is no need based justification that can be found. Give a reason, or stop this. Release these 5 sites, please.
Please explain
Why is it that Ft. Pickett up near Blackstone is not being considered? Nobody wants to hear the noise from these jets, that don't make everyone un-patriotic, just a reasonable thinking person. We in Western Tidewater don't want this OLF either but I have noticed a real increase in Navy fighter aircraft over my residence for the last year or so. The new JSF has an engine that produces TWICE the thrust of the FA/18, the Navy can't tell me the new JSF is no louder than what is currently based in Oceana. When I was in High School, working after school out in Va. Beach during the construction boom (Magic Hollow) I can still remember seeing the faces of the pilots as they flew in to make a landing. I still cannot understand why anyone in their right mind would buy these homes and have to live with the noise. It would be a good 30 minutes after heading home in the evenings before my hearing would return. Kind of like it is after you been on the riding lawnmower for 2 hours. I say call the Navy's bluff and let them take the jets to Cherry Point. They might blink first and change their minds.
You want this Jet Noise?
You can have it. This is going on 3 weeks of continuous flying circles over the city. It's beyond noise, it's beyond comprehension that endless circles over any populated area is the only way to train. NC, continue the oppsosition to the OLF. The official AICUZ maps posted online by the Navy and the cities of VB and CHES are as useless as the paper they are printed on. No neighborhood deserves to be encroached upon by an OLF or the addition of a larger louder airplane. The Superhornet has made its way to the west to Rosemont Road. Windsor Woods, Town Center, Kempsville, Little Neck, you're next with the JSF. It's a 1950s solution to a 21st century problem...
Good Enuf
For Carolyn R The noise ordinance is no different than what VA Beach and Ches. have done regarding noise. VA's rejection of the noise is the ONLY reason another OLF is needed but the difference between NC and VA is that NC has said, over and over, that they will take the jets at Cherry Point. NC has said, over and over, that the WANT the jets at Cherry Point. Cherry Point already has the landing field and the navy wouldn't have to spend more of your tax dollars to build another runway. The navy's logic is that it would cost too much in fuel fly to Cherry Point. Millions to build a runway at Hales Lake vs money in fuel to fly a little further? The difference between VA and NC is that VA doesn't want the jets flying ANYWHERE in VA. Three possible sites in VA and Fort Pickett is one of them but it's ten miles out of the distance range the navy wants to fly so they want to spend MILLIONS of tax dollars to build a new site. NC isn't saying they're special. NC is saying send the jets to Cherry Point we'd love to take them. Send the master jet base to NC Cherry Point we'd love that too and VA is saying let us keep the master jet base and all the economic benefits that come with it
Good Enuf Part II
Finishing my comments
VA is saying let us keep the master jet base and all the economic benefits that come with it but send the noise to another state.
VA is saying the noise is too much for VA residents (who think they're special) to deal with but not too much for NC residents to deal with.
Why not criticize VA for their stance on the OLF? They're the ones who've created this fiasco not NC.
I would ask that a modification of your statements
be made. While you have the right and freedom to what you wrote, I think you may have over generalized your statement. VA BCH LG and some VA BCH and Ches residents feel they are special. They are the ones who feel they should get much of what you wrote.
I contend that the 3 VA sites are in the same boat as the two NC sites. They are being targeted simply because the Navy can.
Is the Navy hoping to split the five sites by pitting state vs state in this? When the Navy had all 5 sites in NC, there was solidarity between the 5 sites and the state when discussing the OLF with the Navy.
Navy spokeswoman Lt. j.g.
Navy spokeswoman Lt. j.g. Laura Stegherr is a spokeswoman. Her job is to clip news reports for the Navy Office of Information. It’s not an inferior post and I’m sure it occupies a great deal of her time; however she is NOT an attorney.
The real questions should be…is the Navy ready to test this law? Is the Navy ready to delay this project for another couple of years?
Does the Navy have the luxury of time to have this project delayed?
The opposition to this project is because the truth has been exposed, it is not a need for operational requirements, it is a need for Virginia Beach and Chesapeake to continue unchecked growth.
The Navy once said they would not place this OLF in a location where the community does not want it. If the Navy is willing to try this law and force the OLF, then we cannot trust the Navy’s words regarding this project. And that is very sad.
Why can’t the military
Why can’t the military consolidate on the 90,000 acres owned by the DOD in the California desert? I understand they merely paint an aircraft carrier on a runway for practice why does a base need to be on prime waterfront property?
We must seriously ask why the military is expanding. Why aren’t we cutting the bloated Pentagon budget? When did our nation come to expect constant wars of choice? Are these squandered funds justified with our current economy? Why must civilians suffer loss of their heritage land and freedom for military might?
What It All Boils Down To
The Navy, even after ten years of this OLF search, have yet to prove a bona fide NEED for this project. NC's elected officials from top to bottom know this...our U.S. Senators, our Congressmen, our Governor, our General Assembly, our local boards of commissioners...all of them. It is because the Navy does not need this OLF for operational purposes. They have the number of available runways already to handle their mission whether it is routine ops or the Fleet Response Plan that Admiral Anderson spoke of.
With all due respect to Admiral Anderson, if he were asked today whether the Navy already possesses enough existing runway assets in the Tidewater area to perform their mission, he would have to tell you 'yes'. Between Fentress and the parallel runway at Oceana, there is more than enough runway capacity to fulfill the mission. The problem is that the Navy does not WANT to use Oceana for nighttime flight training hence they WANT another outlying runway. It is that simple. Theoretically the Navy could use Oceana 24/7 as it was intended.
It's funny. . .
To see how desperate the Navy is getting with the F35 (JSF) right around the corner. Tick, tock . . . Oceana's days are definitely numbered. The Government needs to get BRAC on line again, and get this Oceana fiasco over with.
Navy Comment not part of NEPA...........
Does everyone else find it creepy how all these new Navy people come forward so fast to try and destroy or play down anything positive the citizens against OLF are doing to stop this OLF? Did this Navy spokesperson come forward the day the delay was announced to explain all the reasons for the delay? Did this Navy spokesperson come forward to explain what happens next in this process? Is this spokesperson part of the OLF EIS process? Has anybody seen this spokespersons name included in any of our information? Was this spokesperson at any of our public meetings or hearings? Is this spokesperson available to answer questions or concerns citizens from the 5 sites may have? As with everything else about this whole OLF process, one sided, blind sided and unjust by DON.
Hawkgirl, It is suspicious
Hawkgirl, It is suspicious the OLFEIS site under Public Involvement; Fact Sheets, Aircraft Noise & Safety lists aircraft up to 75 decibels well within the safety of 84 decibels approved by OSHA. The newer aircraft are 150 decibels. Is this lying by omission?
Fair warning I live near NAS Whidbey Island WA noise from these aircraft will destroy your quality of life. Fight OLF with everything you have. Our land was seized in 1942 the DOD took 3,000+ acres of land from many families. The invasion and occupation of the military has expanded & getting worse. Before the new aircraft it was tolerable. Now you can’t even talk on the phone, watch TV or sleep. Complaints on Whidbey fall on deaf ears. Canadians on Vancouver Island have complained. It is loud invasive noise 24/7. With insidious creation of APZ’s we have lost property rights without compensation.
isn't it strange how the Navy should be forming a partnership
with the local government on this but the local governments are already pressed into this kind of talk? The Navy failed to even talk to the local governments when they know the partnership between the Navy and the local community is through the Local Government, and not the State? This jurisdictional discussion is not something new. It has been hashed out within the Navy and DOD. It is recognized by the DOD that the local governments have this authority. What is new? What is new, is the Navy has decided to blow past all the authority found at the local level as though the local government has failed (past tense) to support the mission. The airstrip is not even built, yet the Navy has decided that which ever LG they chose to host this OLF will not PROTECT the mission. What did they do at Washington County? The Navy simply pulled out a check sheet of how to do a NEPA, and started putting checks in boxes. At the end, they said, "ok, we did that NEPA, here it is, now we are taking 30,000 acres." That studies were terrible did not matter. They are still in this mindset at the 2nd OLF site, but around Oceana, they support deals like the HRJLUS.
Really, does the Navy wish to push this issue in NC
regarding jurisdictional authority? This is speculation on my part, but if Gates, Camden and Currituck Counties opted to, could they enact a noise ordinance that could cripple the Navy's ability to fly in the region? The LG have the authority to do so and have the backing of the NC GA. They could word it in such a way that excessive noise, or the number of like events from the same kind of source would not be allowed. They could say no school may be subjected to a SEL of xxx regardless if students are present or not. The Navy would have to honor it, or place the school under restrictive use easements so they would be able to make as much noise as they desired upon your kids, so VA BCH LG does not have to fix the mess they created. This action is within the authority of the local police authority that the Navy's own policies recognizes. Navy, knowing that NC has been telling you for so long that NE NC is not an option for this OLF, do you really wish to push this? Please perform a proper NEPA study addressing the viability of Oceana as the east coast MJB. It has to be done for the JSF regardless, might as well start, right?
This line of thinking seems inline with the Navy's own
instructions as well as with their partnership between the cities as depicted in the HRJLUS. The Navy has even stated that this document is a turning point in the positive realization of making Oceana a viable MJB. The Navy recognizes that all lands outside the fence belong to the police authority of the LG. They realize that their actions are empowered by the Constitution, but it must support and defend the Constitution. That document empowers to take for needful buildings. The Constitution also empowers the States to control their own lands. Jurisdictional control of the lands beyond the fence line is under the police authority of the LG. The Navy would have to impose restrictive use easements on a lot of land in order for them to be able to fly as they desired at this OLF. In order to make the 2nd OLF work, the federal Government would have to put more land under restrictive use easements then just out to the 60 dB DNL contour line. The Navy would have to control all lands from the state border to the end of the runway to avoid having to comply with local laws. Is this how the Navy intends to fix the Oceana problem?
carolyn
Do you think the Navy should only comply with local ordinances around Oceana and Fentress,
but not anywhere else in the US?
I put the needs of the armed forces,
all five branches in front of any local jurisdiction, Virginia Beach and Camden included. Their services merit it in my opinion.