Socialists say their true beliefs are being misconstrued

Posted to: News Politics

NORFOLK

Jerry Denzer of Norfolk likes to smoke a pipe and chat with friends of all beliefs about politics.

He shops only at locally owned hardware stores and restaurants, and hopes to someday hire employees for his lawn care business.

Denzer is a socialist.

And in some circles of modern political culture right now, that's not a good thing.

Denzer and other socialists have noticed the increasing use of the word "socialism" by conservatives to describe Democrats, and say it's off-base.

"Socialism places the control over the means of production with all," Denzer said in an interview at a restaurant in Norfolk's Northside neighborhood.

"At the end of the day, a classless, unified

society is what I would love to see - where everybody cares for everybody else. Isn't that the quote-unquote Christian thing to do?"

Now those are the words of a socialist.

Denzer was in the Navy for 12-1/2 years before retiring with a physical disability. He gets his health care from Veterans Affairs hospitals - socialism, he said. Police, firefighters and roads are products of socialism, too, Denzer believes.

It is difficult to say how many people in the United States are socialists. Brian Moore, a socialist candidate for president in 2008, received 6,528 votes nationally. (By comparison, independent candidate Ralph Nader received 738,475 votes.)

Voters in Virginia do not designate a party affiliation when registering to vote. The State Board of Elections says no socialist candidates are running for office this year.

The Socialist Party of the United States of America has one chapter in Virginia. The Central Virginia chapter stretches from Harrisonburg to Virginia Beach, said Brandon Collins, a musician and bartender in Charlottesville who is the group's secretary. It has 17 members.

Collins said he is trying to help get a chapter formed in the northern and southwestern parts of the state.

It's a small group that now has a big task: explaining what socialism is, and isn't.

Nearly every day, Collins hears people use the word "socialism" to describe Democrats, the president or ideas put forth by liberals.

"There's a lot of disinformation out there about it," he said.

Socialism is not, for instance, the government bailout of the banking and auto industries, Collins said.

"What the right wing is calling socialism - it's government control of corporations, which is not what real socialists believe in. We believe in worker control," he said.

The bailout, he said, "was really socialism for the rich, it was socialism for corporations - basically corporate welfare times a thousand."

President Barack Obama is not a socialist, Collins said, though many protesters at this month's anti-tax rally in Washington claimed he is.

"Absolutely not. Well, he's not even a liberal," Collins said.

He added, "If he was a socialist, he'd be all about single-

payer Medicare for all. He wouldn't be so interested in protecting the free market when it comes to these bailouts and Wall Street."

Quentin Kidd, a political science professor at Christopher Newport University, said the explosion of the word "socialism" started in 2008 when the government began bailing out banks. "That's when I really started hearing people say, 'This is socialism' or 'These are socialistic policies.' "

At it's root, use of the term symbolizes a fear of government, he said. A similar backlash occurred during the Great Depression and during Great Society programs of the 1960s.

The fear goes back to debates between Jefferson, Hamilton and Madison about the role of centralized government, Kidd said.

"The term socialism has always had kind of a dark hue to it, anyway," he said. "But this takes the demagoguery to a new level, and it links the demagoguery to Obama."

While some conservatives today don't hesitate to liberally use the word socialist to describe Obama and Democratic policies, GOP party leaders would need make the term their mantra to make it an effective attack, which right now they're not willing to do, Kidd said.

"I think most of mainstream America looks at these demonstrators... and they read their signs and they go, 'That's just a little bit too radical for me,'" he said.

"The only way the socialism critique is going to work, if it's going to be a long-standing critique, is if leaders in the party pick it up."

As the economy recovers, use of the word socialism will become less powerful as a critique, he said.

Gary Shaw, a graduate student at Old Dominion University who said he realized he was a socialist in the 1980s, said Franklin Delano Roosevelt was labeled a socialist by some, just as Obama is now. "I see erroneous users of the term as either ignorant or savvy," he said in an e-mail interview. "Eugene Debs and Norman Thomas, early 20th century candidates for president, were socialists. Study the difference."

Patrick Wilson, (757) 446-2957, patrick.wilson@pilotonline.com

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Def and apps continued

Some people do not consider the Democratic party of this past century to be true socialism. But I say, they are in the truest definition of the word. Government control started in 1913, (Wilson/Democrat) and was dramatically expanded in 1933, (FDR/Democrat), and expanded even more in 1965, (Johnson/Democrat). We have crippled our economy every time in the name of the "greater good". If Obama gets his agenda passed through, we will be a more socialistic state by 2012 then ever before. He by definition a socialist and socialism is not good for any society! Never has been and never will be!

Some definitions and applications

First, I am not sure many people understand the definition of socialism or capitalism for that matter. And if they do, I do not believe that those (who at least can define socialism and capitalism), have closely observed some major differences in a socialist society and a capitalistic society. Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation. Capitalism typically refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production (also known as capital) are privately controlled; labor, goods and capital are traded in a market; profits are distributed to owners or invested in new technologies and industries; and wages are paid to labor. In application, socialism has failed time and time again. Even in the US with Wilson's income tax, Roosevelt's New Deal, and Johnson's Great Society, all rammed through "for the greater good of the moment" we have suffered dramatically in the financial area of our capitalistic society. Some peop

When you see or read..

people equating legitimate govt functions like police, fire, national defense, etc., as 'socialism', they either do not understand their own beliefs, i.e., they don't understand the very definition of what they believe in, or they are flat our dishonest. The aspects of Soc Sec and Medicare that involve wealth redistribution can be labeled as 'socialistic' (actually, Ponzi would be the more relevant term), because most people can take out far more than what they pay in to them, which is also why they are going broke. Some of the govt services mentioned do have market/non-govt counterparts, volunteer fire depts, hired protection (like body guards), certain legal representation, etc., are but a few examples of services that are often available for those who have no recourse, or choose not to depend on the govt to provide them. Certainly, those things are subject to some degree and/or level of govt oversight and compliance, but they are available (for some) none the less. Just because something is connected to the govt, that doesn't make it 'socialistic'. That many don't get that is readliy apparent in this life!

I had a few posts in this thread...

that have disappeared overnight. Any explanation for that, from the monitors? I don't seem to have any functions enabled (like ignoring myself) to account for that. As I said, an explanation would be appreciated..

Thanks..

usoslow757

Why do you feel a person needs military experience to become a chef?

Where?

Just where is socialism working? Russia? Cuba? Venezuela? China?

Misunderstanding

The socialist don't understand I have and would again go to war against socialism and/or communism. We are all equal under God not under the law. There will always be those who won't want to work if they can get the same thing as everybody else from the gov't.

VA hospital is not a thing of socialism..

...its an earned benefit. This just goes to show how people see and believe what they want to believe instead of living in truth.

Misunderstood?

"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs."

No matter how you slice it, it is still evil. And, it is not attainable, so long as human nature exists. Every step forward in civilization, every invention, every economy, every innovation has relied upon one simple truth: the ability of the individual to triumph over adversity.

Socialism's success relies upon squelching individual achievement. And that's why socialism is destined to fail every time and everywhere it's tried.

contacting the Socialist Party

For more information on the Socialist Party of Central Virginia- e-mail spvirginia@comcast.net and visit us at http://sites.google.com /site/spcentralva/ we are also on myspace and facebook.
and for more info on the Socialist Party USA go to www.socialistparty-usa.org

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